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Old 02-15-2014, 01:51 PM   #101
gadolparah
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

whether you like him or dislike him, daniels making very good points. reading all the personal **** tossed his way is just frustrating derailment.
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:52 PM   #102
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Quote:
Originally Posted by blopp View Post
Thanks for taking the time for doing this Daniel.

What do you think the future is for PLO? Its hugely popular online despite being raked unfairly (2x nlhe in bb/100 on similar stakes), but at least in tournament format seems to be a bit slower (slightly related).

Do you ever think about you personally want to help build PLO like you tried build the 50 100 NLHE 6m action on Pokerstars?

What is your vision to make online cash game poker grow more?
Personally i think the biggest problem with cash poker is the action player is put at a big disadvantage especially in NL Holdem full ring. Have games with must straddles or antes (online). I hate the live scene where very nitty players have a big edge over action guys.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:05 PM   #103
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

GL DNegs, I like your vision.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:10 PM   #104
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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Originally Posted by CyberShark93 View Post
its not headphones that killed poker, its the government
People need to wake up and stop with this blame the government line.

For the game to progress, it needs to be properly regulated.
Had the government not stepped in, the FTP disaster would've been a hell of a lot worse.

Currently the US market is in a temporary state of limbo. Unfortunately, it's something that has to be endured for the greater good.

My personal long term view is that the government may well have saved poker.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:25 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by DNegs View Post
I like the way you put it. Understanding that the amateur players are similar to customers and they should be treated that way. If you are a professional poker player, poker is your business and the bad players are your customers. Treat your customers poorly, you lose revenue. Treat them with respect and courtesy, and you are more likely to have a long term customer.

The guys who arguably make the most money in the world today are names you may never have heard of. They mastered the art of getting into good games. Good players who find their way into juicy private games despite them having a no pro policy. Certain pros get it, are likable, and keep getting invited back despite the fact that they are winners.

That's the backbone of how poker professionals started. before regulated casinos and online poker, you had to get invited to play in games. If you are a winning player, that's strike one, but if they don't like you AND you are a winning player you simply can't survive.

When Galfond mentions in his blog that old school players are better at this "hustle" it's because the old-timers had no choice. Since the online poker boom and the ease of finding games for so many years, that SKILL as a professional poker player has been lost on the youth. The young guys coming up didn't have to be liked, they could log in, play with a bad player, then quit the second the bad player quits. Stuff that you could have never gotten away with in the old days.
Great post.

The point about professional players getting into juicy private games because they are likeable despite being big winners is very interesting and something I've often wondered about. Nice to read the view of a top professional on the subject. I'm sure you'll have a few invites to games like these from the way you conduct yourself.

Hope you stick around and post regularly now Daniel. Only good things can come from it.

All the best.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:45 PM   #106
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

I once bragged to Daniel that I had 23 straight winning sessions in a row he said it was no big deal/ not impressive. I then got a DUI for hitting a police cruiser and not too long after got banned from his forum... Daniel owns the doom switch; tread lightly..
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:55 PM   #107
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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Originally Posted by foxwoodspr0 View Post
I once bragged to Daniel that I had 23 straight winning sessions in a row he said it was no big deal/ not impressive. I then got a DUI for hitting a police cruiser and not too long after got banned from his forum... Daniel owns the doom switch; tread lightly..
nah... you were just a fish on a heater
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:05 PM   #108
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

OP,

Keep in mind that the rec players who frequent the games you play in (multimillionaire businessmen) are probably quite adept at processing their place at the table. Thus, there is a fine line between including the 'fish' in comfortable table banter as opposed to patronizing them because you want them to stay for a as long as possible and donate.

Sometimes, when I watch televised poker and I see a top pro who has some talk game (like Antonio or yourself), kick it with the fish, that line seems to be crossed. I would think you guys should be careful not to make the rec players think, "wow they are being overly nice to me because they just want me to donate." It is a fine line of course, but I'd be careful not to underestimate the ability of the rec to process what is REALLY taking place during all the 'friendly' table banter.

I 100% agree that the poker utopia you describe is in everybody's long term interests. GL trying to get a bunch of individualistic poker players to implement anything other than what is most EV for them in the present, however.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:13 PM   #109
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Do you think Live Events in Canada that are hosted by online operators will grow? Or will the gov't make it too hard?

Will you be playing the Montreal tourney that Stars is hosting this May?
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:19 PM   #110
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I’m not sure that I will be a regular poster on here, I never really have been, but if there is something I feel the need to chime in on, I’ll do so.

Please do
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:24 PM   #111
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Daniel, have you considered co-authoring a pro poker players manifesto/doctrine?

one that discusses the important issues of being a professional (etiquette and lifestyle management) as well as analyzes the poker economy as a whole from the days of doyle, to pre-moneymaker, to post-moneymaker, to post-black friday.

it could be a modern day type Super System, with an emphasis on next level strategy (peak performance, happiness, understanding among players) and a de-emphasis on balancing your cbet range.

off the top of my head yourself, barryg, and anotnio would be excellent candidates, with some online pros and perhaps politicians or casino owners offering interesting perspectives as well.

however i wouldn't trust phil galfond because training sites are an extremely negative agent in poker (please include this in the poker economy section ), and are the precursor to excessive and predatory bumhunting. cardrunners was founded in 2005, and bumhunting was coined in 2007 - no coincidence).
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:46 PM   #112
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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Originally Posted by vinivici9586 View Post
Daniel, have you considered co-authoring a pro poker players manifesto/doctrine?

one that discusses the important issues of being a professional (etiquette and lifestyle management) as well as analyzes the poker economy as a whole from the days of doyle, to pre-moneymaker, to post-moneymaker, to post-black friday.

it could be a modern day type Super System, with an emphasis on next level strategy (peak performance, happiness, understanding among players) and a de-emphasis on balancing your cbet range.

off the top of my head yourself, barryg, and anotnio would be excellent candidates, with some online pros and perhaps politicians or casino owners offering interesting perspectives as well.

however i wouldn't trust phil galfond because training sites are an extremely negative agent in poker (please include this in the poker economy section ), and are the precursor to excessive and predatory bumhunting. cardrunners was founded in 2005, and bumhunting was coined in 2007 - no coincidence).
+1

Barry's book, Ace on the River, is similar to what you described.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:56 PM   #113
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

If we would all just "blank" then everything would "blank".

You can fill in the blanks however you want... it's weak.

What worked for poker was: "For very little risk, you too could become a millionaire."

What doesn't work for poker is: "For a potentially sizable risk you too could be fleeced by calculating sharps."

As spectators the public wants to see a good fight. Put two guys in a cage, throw in one sword, "two men enter, one man leaves." It's good fun.

As participants the public wants a fighting chance. Put ten guys in a ring, give everybody a sword, and lets see who wins.

We'll never be able to control anything (of substantial value) with rules.

Maybe get Dana White to chime in...
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:06 PM   #114
Mason Malmuth
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Hi Everyone:

First off, we think this is a very good thread and an important discussion for our industry, so we hope it continues. But we do have some issues with Daniel Negreanu returning to our forums that I’ll address here.

In the first post of this thread, Negreanu writes “but it’s time to let bygones be bygones and move forward.” Well that’s fine with us, but for this to happen it must be a two way street, and so far that is not the case.

On Negreanu’s own site, Full Contact Poker, there is a thread that he started called “2+2 Is Run By Scumbags,” and for him to become part of the 2+2 community this thread needs to be deleted. Here’s a link to it:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...312&hl=malmuth

For those interested, please take a look at Posts Nos. 1, 34, 35, 36, and 45. In addition, Post No. 60 is an embedded interview that Negreanu did for the “50+ hour poker podcast dubbed “The Ironman Podcast” benefitting the 22Q.org Foundation., and he makes some comments about me and 2+2 starting at about 18 minutes and 45 seconds.

For those who don’t know, 2+2 has a no solicitation for money policy which with just a few exceptions we strictly enforce. Apparently, Negreanu was objecting to our policy. But in this case, it was certainly the right policy since most of the money for the 22Q Foundation was apparently stolen by the main organizer of “The Ironman Podcast.” Also, to help the 22Q Foundation cover the loss, I donated $2,500 directly to them. And finally, I tried to contact Negreanu last night and he has so far not responded.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:06 PM   #115
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World



Missed ya' yo!!
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:24 PM   #116
Mason Malmuth
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNegs View Post
I don't think that game has a very long shelf life at Bellagio. Too many pros, and not enough new players interested in playing limit hold'em. Those guys are either going to have to learn how to play no limit, or they will have to find a new city to play in where limit hold'em is spread regularly.
Referring to both the $40-$80 and $20-$40 games at The Bellagio, I think the opposite is true. Based on my observations, which could be off since at the moment since I'm only an occasional player, these games seem to have picked up the last six months.

Mason
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:39 PM   #117
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

First off, we think this is a very good thread and an important discussion for our industry, so we hope it continues. But we do have some issues with Daniel Negreanu returning to our forums that I’ll address here.

In the first post of this thread, Negreanu writes “but it’s time to let bygones be bygones and move forward.” Well that’s fine with us, but for this to happen it must be a two way street, and so far that is not the case.

On Negreanu’s own site, Full Contact Poker, there is a thread that he started called “2+2 Is Run By Scumbags,” and for him to become part of the 2+2 community this thread needs to be deleted. Here’s a link to it:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...312&hl=malmuth

For those interested, please take a look at Posts Nos. 1, 34, 35, 36, and 45. In addition, Post No. 60 is an embedded interview that Negreanu did for the “50+ hour poker podcast dubbed “The Ironman Podcast” benefitting the 22Q.org Foundation., and he makes some comments about me and 2+2 starting at about 18 minutes and 45 seconds.

For those who don’t know, 2+2 has a no solicitation for money policy which with just a few exceptions we strictly enforce. Apparently, Negreanu was objecting to our policy. But in this case, it was certainly the right policy since most of the money for the 22Q Foundation was apparently stolen by the main organizer of “The Ironman Podcast.” Also, to help the 22Q Foundation cover the loss, I donated $2,500 directly to them. And finally, I tried to contact Negreanu last night and he has so far not responded.

Best wishes,
Mason
....really?

"you can come back highly visible poker pro, but only if you remove the mean things you said about me on the internet."

you're running a business here, a a thicker skin would help your customers (2p2 users) and your bottom line (DNegs posts -> more traffic -> more money for you).
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:45 PM   #118
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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Old 02-15-2014, 04:51 PM   #119
Mason Malmuth
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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....really?

"you can come back highly visible poker pro, but only if you remove the mean things you said about me on the internet."

you're running a business here, a a thicker skin would help your customers (2p2 users) and your bottom line (DNegs posts -> more traffic -> more money for you).
In post No. 45 in the referenced Full Contact Poker thread Negreanu writes:

Quote:
Because he is flat out lying? If it's all about money, which is obvious, then just admit and stop trying to convince people that it's to protect people from getting scammed by an illegitimate charity. That's not true at all. If they paid for advertising they wouldn't give a crap if the charity was legit, as long as they get paid.
while you write:

Quote:
you're running a business here, a a thicker skin would help your customers (2p2 users) and your bottom line (DNegs posts -> more traffic -> more money for you).
MM
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:54 PM   #120
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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Originally Posted by blopp View Post
Why dont you get them to cover your expenses and do challenges like Isildur1 had on Pokerstars? Think that would be a good and fun thing for everyone, including you
i don't think it works that way. even for daniel.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:55 PM   #121
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Malmuth View Post
Hi Everyone:

First off, we think this is a very good thread and an important discussion for our industry, so we hope it continues. But we do have some issues with Daniel Negreanu returning to our forums that I’ll address here.

In the first post of this thread, Negreanu writes “but it’s time to let bygones be bygones and move forward.” Well that’s fine with us, but for this to happen it must be a two way street, and so far that is not the case.

On Negreanu’s own site, Full Contact Poker, there is a thread that he started called “2+2 Is Run By Scumbags,” and for him to become part of the 2+2 community this thread needs to be deleted. Here’s a link to it:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...312&hl=malmuth

For those interested, please take a look at Posts Nos. 1, 34, 35, 36, and 45. In addition, Post No. 60 is an embedded interview that Negreanu did for the “50+ hour poker podcast dubbed “The Ironman Podcast” benefitting the 22Q.org Foundation., and he makes some comments about me and 2+2 starting at about 18 minutes and 45 seconds.

For those who don’t know, 2+2 has a no solicitation for money policy which with just a few exceptions we strictly enforce. Apparently, Negreanu was objecting to our policy. But in this case, it was certainly the right policy since most of the money for the 22Q Foundation was apparently stolen by the main organizer of “The Ironman Podcast.” Also, to help the 22Q Foundation cover the loss, I donated $2,500 directly to them. And finally, I tried to contact Negreanu last night and he has so far not responded.

Best wishes,
Mason
Yes. He made some harsh posts about you on his forum. And I think he meant it. But I don't think he is obnoxious or confrontational usually, so there may be some real issues that separate you two, or there may be a failure to communicate. My advice to you is to let him post here if he follows your rules, and shows respect while he is here. And if he eventually modifies his public opinion of you ... great.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:56 PM   #122
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This will not end well
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:58 PM   #123
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

The irresistible force meets the immovable object.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:58 PM   #124
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

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Originally Posted by npknhldr View Post
Seriously. Does it really matter what he writes on ANOTHER website, that has nothing to do with 2p2.

Perhaps I'm being selfish, but the guy finally comes back and people want to hear what he has to say and you have to make it personal??? What does HIS PERSONAL OPINION OF YOU HAVE TO DO WITH FOLLOWING THE RULES OF THE FORUM? Buzzkill

Best wishes,
MacauBound
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:58 PM   #125
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Re: My Vision for the Poker World

HU4websites imo
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