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My Vision for the Poker World (from Feb. 2014) My Vision for the Poker World (from Feb. 2014)

02-15-2014 , 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelo'
Daniel, would your "message" still be the same hadn't you already made your millions playing the game? I find your "poker should be fun first, competitive endeavour second" comment to be ridiculous to be honest.
Ask around. The foundation of my game was created when I had no millions, no endorsement deal, and I was a grinder. I learned from those before me how important it was to make sure the environment was a friendly one. First column I ever wrote for Card Player magazine was called "Party Day" which was all about playing wild and crazy and making it really fun for everyone. I did that once a month... in my teenage years.
02-15-2014 , 02:15 AM
thank you so much daniel. seriously how hard of a concept is it to grasp that we make our living off fish. they our arecustomers. any good businessmen wants to keep their company profitable and to do this we keep customers happy. how hard is that torealize. it makes me sick when regs berate amateurs for bad plays... 1) it pisses the amateur off and makes him less inclined to redeposit or come back to the casino 2) you should be thankful for bad plays... they pay off long run lol which is what weare about as poker players. its funny how such simple concepts get lost on most, especially when these people make their living off of poker. thanks for posting, good luck in 2014 my friend.
02-15-2014 , 02:17 AM
The day that you get poker players to behave nicely to each other no matter what happens will be the day there is a snowball fight in Hell fought by flying pigs.

We are superficially alike for the most part on the outside. Inside is a very different story. Players come to the game for all sorts of reasons and being a jerk where being a jerk is allowed to a pretty strong degree is one of the reasons and that will never change.

Nice sentiment, though. If I thought that it would ever work I'd give it a go. As it is I try to keep things very light and friendly but sooner or later someone is going to go off and there's no stopping it.
02-15-2014 , 02:17 AM
Daniel if you were to play your bread and butter game which was limit holdem from back when you started, how many BB/hr do you think you could make at the 40/80 LHE game at bellagio right now? I know back then 1BB was considered very good but now most limit holdem players say almost no one makes 1BB anymore and many make 0.5-0.75BB/hr.
02-15-2014 , 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G
Ok so just prior to signing with Stars when you were financially not in the best of spots was your primary concern in life "how's the health of poker?"

The point is it's easy to sit at the top and dictate but in the trenches it's not so easy. When you come out like trying to save to poker yet won't ever say anything that could hurt your own bottom line it's pretty tough for people to buy into what your pitching.

I mean if you could link me to a thread/tweet where you speak badly of your employer in any capacity in the interest of poker... or if you can show me that you bash others equally for being scumbags and don't protect your friends perhaps I'll change my mind. Could you offer some examples?
I have plenty of examples. Here is just one. EPT London high roller a few years ago, I boycotted the event. Yes it was a PokerStars sponsored event, but I boycotted the event because I felt it was wrong and not player friendly to blind off stacks for late players. They later changed this rule.

Where do you think the First Card off the Deck rule started? EPT. PokerStars run event, and from the outset I was very vocally against that and still am. I don't there is a player in the game MORE willing to speak out against his own bottom line against his employers than me. Do you think PokerStars likes that I boycotted one of their events? Do you think I'm not aware they wouldn't like that? I was aware, but it took a back seat to what I felt was right at the time.

Lastly, before I signed with Stars I was actually doing quite well financially. I spent many years in the trenches, and I don't think the fact that I have succeeded should bar me from having an opinion on the subject that matters. Quite the opposite actually.
02-15-2014 , 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelo'
Daniel, would your "message" still be the same hadn't you already made your millions playing the game? I find your "poker should be fun first, competitive endeavour second" comment to be ridiculous to be honest.
That's like Warren Buffett saying "tax the rich more!" now that he's the richest guy in the world and about to die.

Or Bill Gates, who after destroying competitor after competitor in the most disgusting ways, turns into a philanthropist.

Those people had their days of conquests, left plenty of dead bodies behind them, and now that their competitive drive is dwindeling and they feel they've conquered enough, they go on the road and preach to the rest of the world.

But...doesn't mean they're wrong. Obviously, what DN is saying makes sense and is right.

The question is, do you have the right to preach while dead bodies are still bleeding and women screaming in the background behind you?

I say yes. I just hope DN is intellectually honest enough to understand that it's easy for him to take the stance of the greater good at this point in his career, and to stay off of those who want their own conquests, because I'm all for the greater good too....but let me make a few millions first.
02-15-2014 , 02:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNegs
I have plenty of examples. Here is just one. EPT London high roller a few years ago, I boycotted the event. Yes it was a PokerStars sponsored event, but I boycotted the event because I felt it was wrong and not player friendly to blind off stacks for late players. They later changed this rule.

Where do you think the First Card off the Deck rule started? EPT. PokerStars run event, and from the outset I was very vocally against that and still am. I don't there is a player in the game MORE willing to speak out against his own bottom line against his employers than me. Do you think PokerStars likes that I boycotted one of their events? Do you think I'm not aware they wouldn't like that? I was aware, but it took a back seat to what I felt was right at the time.

Lastly, before I signed with Stars I was actually doing quite well financially. I spent many years in the trenches, and I don't think the fact that I have succeeded should bar me from having an opinion on the subject that matters. Quite the opposite actually.
I must have missed that VLOG or thread you started over this issue. My apologies.

Also glad to see that you're addressing the most serious of flaws with Pokerstars. That card off the deck thing really made these events damn near unplayable. Keep up the fine work.
02-15-2014 , 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale
The day that you get poker players to behave nicely to each other no matter what happens will be the day there is a snowball fight in Hell fought by flying pigs.

We are superficially alike for the most part on the outside. Inside is a very different story. Players come to the game for all sorts of reasons and being a jerk where being a jerk is allowed to a pretty strong degree is one of the reasons and that will never change.

Nice sentiment, though. If I thought that it would ever work I'd give it a go. As it is I try to keep things very light and friendly but sooner or later someone is going to go off and there's no stopping it.
Ah but that's ok! In fact it might even be a good thing! The key is what are the MAJORITY doing? If the majority of the pros are friendly and kind to the amateurs, they actually may enjoy a Hellmuth rant from time to time, provided that the pros laugh along WITH the amateurs and not at them! The butt of the joke, and I'm using PH for this example, should be the pro who is behaving like a fool.
02-15-2014 , 02:28 AM
I think that the majority of the internet players arent in the good place to make the amatuers happy because first of all:
- they dont have the social skills
-older people are very proud and wont like the idea that a 20y/o kid is better than them when they have been playing for over 40years so that hits their ego.
-the 20y/o kid didnt prove anything in life yet and probably doesnt have much intresting stuff to say that intrests the older recreational players.

Then you got the fact that they feel the need to talk about poker at the table and to show how smart they are so thats not gonna help them.

the best thing they do is sit back,dont show your ego and let the more talkactive internet kids do the talking and the rest of the talk should be comming from the older internet+livepros who probably are more likely to have social skills, have something intresting to say and the older people will be more likely to talk with a 30y/o than the 20y/o kid imo for the facts stated above.

In the poker community their arent many new young kids coming in and the best pros are more those who are 25+. Its getting very difficult to become a pro these days but still their are more people turning pro than people who quit being a pokerpro and many pokerplayers dont have anything to fall back on so they just stay in the business and try anything to survive(staking, scamming,...) Its getting tougher and tougher. The winrates of many players went down a lot when france, italy and spain went out of the ROW playerpool but many people underestimate this part but just sharkscope those top100pros and you will see. Thenn you got black friday too that was bad because we lost all the fish and most good pros relocated.

The best thing that can happen, also for the livepros, is to get the usa in the international playerpool and the livepros need to try more to make the fish happy and the young kids shouldnt act douchy and then we work from there on.

ps. I think Hachem was bashing those 2specific people because they both sold their main event bracelets(and it isnt as much for the sport for them and its more for the money?).
02-15-2014 , 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Land Of The Free?
That's like Warren Buffett saying "tax the rich more!" now that he's the richest guy in the world and about to die.

Or Bill Gates, who after destroying competitor after competitor in the most disgusting ways, turns into a philanthropist.

Those people had their days of conquests, left plenty of dead bodies behind them, and now that their competitive drive is dwindeling and they feel they've conquered enough, they go on the road and preach to the rest of the world.

But...doesn't mean they're wrong. Obviously, what DN is saying makes sense and is right.

The question is, do you have the right to preach while dead bodies are still bleeding and women screaming in the background behind you?

I say yes. I just hope DN is intellectually honest enough to understand that it's easy for him to take the stance of the greater good at this point in his career, and to stay off of those who want their own conquests, because I'm all for the greater good too....but let me make a few millions first.
Biggest problem with what you are saying is that it's just not true. I have been preaching this since I was a broke teenager! At the outset of my magazine writing, and for the last 20 years. My story hasn't changed. It's always been the same. I have been anti-nit well before the advent of online poker.
02-15-2014 , 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNegs
I have plenty of examples. Here is just one. EPT London high roller a few years ago, I boycotted the event. Yes it was a PokerStars sponsored event, but I boycotted the event because I felt it was wrong and not player friendly to blind off stacks for late players. They later changed this rule.

Where do you think the First Card off the Deck rule started? EPT. PokerStars run event, and from the outset I was very vocally against that and still am. I don't there is a player in the game MORE willing to speak out against his own bottom line against his employers than me. Do you think PokerStars likes that I boycotted one of their events? Do you think I'm not aware they wouldn't like that? I was aware, but it took a back seat to what I felt was right at the time.

Lastly, before I signed with Stars I was actually doing quite well financially. I spent many years in the trenches, and I don't think the fact that I have succeeded should bar me from having an opinion on the subject that matters. Quite the opposite actually.
How about boycotting EPT Barcelona this year? None of your haters could keep on hating if you did that. Be the biggest hero of all time.
02-15-2014 , 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewphish2
Daniel if you were to play your bread and butter game which was limit holdem from back when you started, how many BB/hr do you think you could make at the 40/80 LHE game at bellagio right now? I know back then 1BB was considered very good but now most limit holdem players say almost no one makes 1BB anymore and many make 0.5-0.75BB/hr.
I don't think that game has a very long shelf life at Bellagio. Too many pros, and not enough new players interested in playing limit hold'em. Those guys are either going to have to learn how to play no limit, or they will have to find a new city to play in where limit hold'em is spread regularly.
02-15-2014 , 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yank333
How about boycotting EPT Barcelona this year? None of your haters could keep on hating if you did that. Be the biggest hero of all time.
For what reason? Barcelona is my favorite stop on the EPT, I don't see why I would want to skip it?
02-15-2014 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yank333
How about boycotting EPT Barcelona this year? None of your haters could keep on hating if you did that. Be the biggest hero of all time.
Give him a break man he already fixed that card off the deck thing.
02-15-2014 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNegs
For what reason? Barcelona is my favorite stop on the EPT, I don't see why I would want to skip it?
Well how do you feel your qualified to be the spokesman of what's good for poker when you don't even realize why many recs and pros feel that stop should be boycotted, seized to be a stop, or proper security measures put in place.
02-15-2014 , 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential
Sounds like a good Choice of goals.
needs more love
02-15-2014 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNegs
Ah but that's ok! In fact it might even be a good thing! The key is what are the MAJORITY doing? If the majority of the pros are friendly and kind to the amateurs, they actually may enjoy a Hellmuth rant from time to time, provided that the pros laugh along WITH the amateurs and not at them! The butt of the joke, and I'm using PH for this example, should be the pro who is behaving like a fool.
To be clear I am completely in agreement w/ you. One of the ways that I judge a player is his/her's ability to be gracious under sometimes very trying circumstances and the way they try to keep the mood at the table friendly. There are those of us that will try to deflect an attack on another player. The problem is is that we are outnumbered. You know that poker is a mind-****. Well, most ppl can't handle that part at all. And, tbh, having aggravated players at the table is profitable. So much so that there are bastards that try to aggravate them on purpose w/ the mantra 'It's POKER!'

I play at Casino Arizona. The floor staff have a very low tolerance for player abuse when it's brought to their attention but they don't get called over very often bec everybody expects other players to berate other players at least occasionally esp since most of them do it themselves. One thing that I joke about is how very well a lot of players manage to make 'Nice hand', 'Nice play', Nice call', etc sound exactly like **** you you *********** mother ****ing piece of ****.

Maybe you can get most players on board at the level you play bec there aren't really that many but down w/ the common folks not much more than trying to be friendly, supportive guy can be done.

Btw, it's a real pleasure to talk to you. I don't want to discourage your efforts in anyway and I really hope that you keep posting on the forum.
02-15-2014 , 02:48 AM
Does your vision for the poker world include having PokerStars in any of the 50 states in the next two years?

Last edited by VP$IP; 02-15-2014 at 02:53 AM.
02-15-2014 , 02:49 AM
i have a vision for the poker world where professionals do not defend, back, bankroll, or play with professionals that are known thieves.
02-15-2014 , 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -sham-
i have a vision for the poker world where professionals do not defend, back, bankroll, or play with professionals that are known thieves.
and he's now logged off
02-15-2014 , 02:52 AM
As a low-mid stakes, heavy volume grinder, I feel my input/ideas on this are probably out in left field... but vis a vis...

As for "poker spokesperson" or "embassador for the game" is it just me, or is it all kind of irrelevant? The only reason anybody WANTS there to be a role like that is to attract fish... so that they, individually can profit from the "new blood"

The problem with this whole "good for poker" ****, is that the game itself is about finding a competitive edge that is slowly becoming non-existent. You can't "unteach" all the pros/semi-pros who know the ins and outs of this game. The only way to see your bottom-line go up, is to bumhunt or encourage players with media attention (like DNegs) to make the game more exciting for would be "investors" of the trade. All I see here is whining that, "Oh, the game is tough now, bring worse players in with your media attention." and whether you're talking "good for the game" or "good for myself" is either way selfish. I know this is a great community of people, but let's be honest; We're all playing this game for one reason or another, and it all boils down to making money or having fun. Hopefully both. But we're ALL against each other in this.

I play 50/100NL to get by, pay the bills, yadda yadda... clearly I like the idea of new, uneducated fish in the sea, but however the fish end up at the tables is out of my realm. DNegs could go door to door introducing this game to new people, and it still wouldn't affect anyone, really. I still love the game, as many of us obviously do, but I guess what I'm saying is that whatever anyone is doing for a "better poker economy" is really irrelevant to the reason we're all here in the first place.
02-15-2014 , 02:53 AM
daniel please tell espn to start filming day 1s on the wsop again. starting on day3 with boring nits and strategy talk makes for a bad product.
02-15-2014 , 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -sham-
i have a vision for the poker world where professionals do not defend, back, bankroll, or play with professionals that are known thieves.
seriously this.
02-15-2014 , 02:59 AM
12 posts in less than an hour. One mention of E-Dog and he insta quits.
02-15-2014 , 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesteptheface
and he's now logged off
I can't understand it... thread goes sideways for him and he does the roundtable routine.

      
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