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Old 07-17-2008, 11:55 AM   #176
Pokamon4e
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
Seriously? When I bold the text of the other post this escapes you, you are baffled by this conundrum of a mystery and riddle wrapped up in a enigma?

Good luck on the tables I guess if this one is hard to understand, but it is simple it means anyone saying any and I mean ANY offshore entity is beyond reproach or corruption needs their head examined. I would only "trust" something regulated and audited and culpable of ramifications of their actions in accordance with the laws where I reside - other than that (and even then) I would be highly skeptical and cautious of any and all off shore companies. Especially in light of the evidence coming out that I already knew just confirmed my suspicions.
So what about Malta? They're a member of the European Union.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:06 PM   #177
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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So what about Malta? They're a member of the European Union.
And? What about them what recourse to you have with them as a US citizen? Do you think US politicians are bought and paid for, but Malta is beyond this because well they are Malta? What I love about Mexico is they are corrupt, but they know it and are at least upfront about it because you have Greek style officious buildings and people in official uniforms doesn't mean that they are not corrupt it just means they cost waaaayyy more than the Mexican cop pulling you over willing to take $20 to let you keep going. The one thing that I love about NVGC is their psycho over the top punishment of gaming crimes and I mean you can get life in NV for cheating...that kind of enforcement I would like to see in online. State side enforcement with real teeth and real audits of all involved from the GAO etc. - at one time the mafia ran Vegas - and we will hopefully say onetime there was offshore gaming.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:08 PM   #178
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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vnh sir
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:13 PM   #179
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by jalexand42 View Post
I'm glad you're a pristine member of the poker community, please continue your shining standard.

PS: How's writing your bot going?
I don't know why you feel the need to constantly harass me. Yeah, I am actually a pristine member of the poker community and I've been around far longer than you. Please try to find a single person who has had a bad experience with me. I was a LHE pro for years before I started shortstacking, not that ssing even makes me a scummy person. I've contributed far more to these forums than you have or will in the next 10 years. I don't feel the need to ask people who I've coached, been coached by, mentored, helped, chatted/traded/traveled/lived/hung out for the past 5 years with to come vouch for me. My reputation speaks for itself amoung the people who have been around here for a while and I'd appreciate it if you would stop spreading bull**** to the newer people who don't know any better.

Yes, I've worked in bot development. Do I use a bot to play poker? I LIVE WITH POKER PLAYERS, THEY WATCH ME PLAY. Get some class.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:21 PM   #180
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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CF, you are officially my favorite poster on 2+2.

Chief Norton, you're an embarassment to the Mohawk nation. I look forward to the day where you are hauled off to prison. Hopefully that day is coming soon.
+1 and +2. In fact, I'll type it out again for +3.

Joe Norton is an embarrassment to the Mohawk nation.

CF is my favorite poster evar.

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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think we all have to agree with Annie Duke that 'new managment' is fantastic.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present your "new" management/owners at AP and UB:

[x] admitted their customers were cheated
[ ] discovered superuser accounts
[ ] named the cheaters
[ ] attempted to bring cheaters to justice
[x] threatened legal action against those who discovered superuser accounts, named the cheaters, and tried to bring them to justice

An exemplary record, indeed.



EDIT: Oh, and this!

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Did the letter from Chief Norton's lawyers explain how it was his company was formed more than six months after he claims to have purchased UB?
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:23 PM   #181
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by kurosh View Post
I don't know why you feel the need to constantly harass me. Yeah, I am actually a pristine member of the poker community and I've been around far longer than you. Please try to find a single person who has had a bad experience with me. I was a LHE pro for years before I started shortstacking, not that ssing even makes me a scummy person. I've contributed far more to these forums than you have or will in the next 10 years. I don't feel the need to ask people who I've coached, been coached by, mentored, helped, chatted/traded/traveled/lived/hung out for the past 5 years with to come vouch for me. My reputation speaks for itself amoung the people who have been around here for a while and I'd appreciate it if you would stop spreading bull**** to the newer people who don't know any better.

Yes, I've worked in bot development. Do I use a bot to play poker? I LIVE WITH POKER PLAYERS, THEY WATCH ME PLAY. Get some class.

kurosh gave me a std
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:30 PM   #182
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

>on behalf of all of us... thx Cornell.

>No, a carrier group might not fit into the St. Lawrence.
A couple small destroyers might.
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:40 PM   #183
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Chief Norton, Sorry for taking so long to make this post but your lawyers sent the letter to my old address.

At least they only send a letter...
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:09 PM   #184
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Very well done CF. I am amazed at your post.

I for one am extremely worried about the ramifications on other poker sites such as FTP who have their servers located on the Kanawakee reservation. They (the KGC) are bound to crash and burn and I have to assume that only means bad news for all that have servers located there, not to mention you have to question the integrity of them all.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:14 PM   #185
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by MRDCHAN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
Of the dozens of super-user accounts discovered on Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet poker have any been revealed by Tokwiro/AP/UB "security" before they were uncovered here by 2+2 posters?

Why is a group of 2+2 volunteers without access to AP or UB systems still more effective than the combined efforts of Tokwiro, Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet?
I think this is pretty much the crux of the case against AP and UB.
this.

I suggest blaming it on bad intelligence from the CIA. Or perhaps they can tell us to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain because they are the great and powerful Oz.

I've heard that if you repeat something over and over again, no matter how ridiculous, many people will eventually believe it to be true.

The only conclusion a sane person can draw from the AP/UB scandals are that they are incredibly incompetent (inconceivably incompetent?) or they are thieving liars.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:14 PM   #186
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

nice play CF, gg chief
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:20 PM   #187
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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What other sites are sanctioned by Kanawake? I remember hearing Stars was not but is FTP? Who else?
Why would anyone not in their geographical territory want to be sanctioned by Kahnawake? Is this sanctioning suppose to act like a third party audit? Are there other companies poker sites can turn to besides KGC?
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:26 PM   #188
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by funkyj View Post
Why would anyone not in their geographical territory want to be sanctioned by Kahnawake? Is this sanctioning suppose to act like a third party audit? Are there other companies poker sites can turn to besides KGC?
Its my understanding (based on what I have read) that Kahnawake nation basically hijacked (through an eminient domain land claim or something or other) the lines that have the most bandwidth of any place else in the country... I am sure what I just wrote is not exactly accurate so can someone who is smarter about this stuff please translate what I am trying to say...

and then: how in the hell can this Kahnawake nation have more bandwith than anyone else in the world and why can't that amount of bandwith be created in other parts of the world? I know I am missing something because I read what I am writng and it makes no sense to me or probably anyone else. Can someone please explain the Khanawake bandwith situation?
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:45 PM   #189
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Didnt want to start a new thread for this: Did Mark Seif play in wsop at all?
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:49 PM   #190
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

I am strictly a low limit player, but I would certainly donate $100 to a Cornell Fiji defense fund if he gets sued.

Would also love to see a copy of the letter they sent Cornell.
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Old 07-17-2008, 02:49 PM   #191
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

cornell fiji....gw sir
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:01 PM   #192
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Thanks for all of your hard work. Personally I am grateful to you and all of the others working hard, volunteering to uncover this information.
+1
Hopefully the 60 minutes coverage exposes what a joke the whole KGC is.
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:20 PM   #193
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Cry Me A River - KGC?
Not even worth mentioning. Everybody already knows they're a regulatory body in name only.
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:35 PM   #194
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

I think you guys are all missing the big picture on this one. So what if Joe Norton and his tribe and associates have a checkered past? It takes someone with the sheer gall of Joe Norton to take the risks necessary to host online gambling sites. The real villain where online poker is concerned is, and always has been, the US government. Have we all forgotten the UIGEA and the Neteller fiasco? If they weren't such overwhelming douchebags, people like Joe Norton wouldn't have to come to the industry's rescue. We could instead have regular citizens running online cardrooms. This is much the same for the marijuana industry. Let's face it, marijuana really shouldn't be illegal, but it is, and the US government acts like a bunch of total dicks when it comes to marijuana enforcement. But, there's a market for it, and a shady dude like Joe Norton is allegedly (according to the links Fiji posted) willing to tell the DEA, FBI and their Canadian corollaries to **** off.

All of the groups cited in the OP that have been investigating Joe Norton and the Kahnawake tribe are probably ten times as corrupt as said tribe is. If the RCMP are anything like the FBI, then they can and should ***** as far as I'm concerned.

The risk of engaging in activities that the US government deems inappropriate, such as online gambling, is that you are going to run into shady enterprises out there setting up shop. A major, legitimate company operating under the jurisdiction of a major, legitimate governing authority wouldn't dare offer its services to US customers, all for fear of suffering enormous abuse at the hands of the US government. So the choice for all of you, then, is to either STFU and quit playing online poker or accept the fact that online gambling enterprises are always going to involve persons and groups of questionable character until such time as the US government stops being a bunch of dbags about the whole thing. That, or maybe move abroad and play at OnGame.
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:40 PM   #195
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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I think you guys are all missing the big picture on this one. So what if Joe Norton and his tribe and associates have a checkered past? It takes someone with the sheer gall of Joe Norton to take the risks necessary to host online gambling sites. The real villain where online poker is concerned is, and always has been, the US government. Have we all forgotten the UIGEA and the Neteller fiasco? If they weren't such overwhelming douchebags, people like Joe Norton wouldn't have to come to the industry's rescue. We could instead have regular citizens running online cardrooms. This is much the same for the marijuana industry. Let's face it, marijuana really shouldn't be illegal, but it is, and the US government acts like a bunch of total dicks when it comes to marijuana enforcement. But, there's a market for it, and a shady dude like Joe Norton is allegedly (according to the links Fiji posted) willing to tell the DEA, FBI and their Canadian corollaries to **** off.

All of the groups cited in the OP that have been investigating Joe Norton and the Kahnawake tribe are probably ten times as corrupt as said tribe is. If the RCMP are anything like the FBI, then they can and should ***** as far as I'm concerned.

The risk of engaging in activities that the US government deems inappropriate, such as online gambling, is that you are going to run into shady enterprises out there setting up shop. A major, legitimate company operating under the jurisdiction of a major, legitimate governing authority wouldn't dare offer its services to US customers, all for fear of suffering enormous abuse at the hands of the US government. So the choice for all of you, then, is to either STFU and quit playing online poker or accept the fact that online gambling enterprises are always going to involve persons and groups of questionable character until such time as the US government stops being a bunch of dbags about the whole thing. That, or maybe move abroad and play at OnGame.
Until reading this I didn't realize Joe Norton was a hero. Damn the Guvmint and damn Pokerstars for abandoning our knight in shining armor who bringeth us the pokers.

Cro
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Old 07-17-2008, 03:57 PM   #196
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by Nick Rivers View Post
So what if Joe Norton and his tribe and associates have a checkered past?
The problem is not that they have a checkered past, it's that they have a checkered present.

Quote:
It takes someone with the sheer gall of Joe Norton to take the risks necessary to host online gambling sites.
I guess the "risk takers" who have the "sheer gall" to set up phishing scams and fake escrow sites should be held in high esteem as well.

Quote:
If they weren't such overwhelming douchebags, people like Joe Norton wouldn't have to come to the industry's rescue.
Yeah, he's a real hero. We should be petitioning the government to get him his Order of Canada post haste.

Last edited by Hopey; 07-17-2008 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:07 PM   #197
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
Will a U.S. Carrier group fit down the St. Lawrence?

Yes, but bridges might be a problem.

Last edited by The Bandit Fish; 07-17-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:12 PM   #198
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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The problem is not that they have a checkered past, it's that they have a checkered present.
No, that's not the problem. The problem is the US government is, at present, a bunch of douchebags.

Quote:
I guess the "risk takers" who have the "sheer gall" to set up phishing scams and fake escrow sites should held in high esteem as well.
That's a logical fallacy. Nobody wants to be scammed. Lots of people want to play online poker. Lots of people want illegal firearms or discounted cigarettes, and lots of people want to smoke weed. The point is that the Kahnawake tribe has repeatedly given the US (and Canadian) government the middle finger, and by hosting online gambling sites, they're doing it yet again. The kind of upstanding citizens you wish would run online gambling sites aren't willing to do that.

Quote:
Yeah, he's a real hero. We should be petitioning the government to get him his Order of Canada post haste.
He may not be a hero, but he's certainly only a minor league villain when compared the governments and agencies he's willing to stand up to. If it weren't for the Joe Nortons of the world, you wouldn't even be able to play online poker.

You guys really are an unbelievable bunch of whiners. You want to engage in an activity deemed illegal by many of the world's governments (namely, the US government) and, when you realize one of the only guys willing to spread the game might be a criminal with underworld ties, you get all bent out of shape. Ergo, you all are retards. As long as I keep on winning, I'll take a game at a Kahnawake poker room over no game at all any day.

In short, it's all George Bush's fault, not Joe Norton's.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:03 PM   #199
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Wow, that was easy.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:20 PM   #200
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

There is a somewhat middle ground here.

I kind of admire the Mohawks and Joe Norton's willingness to stand up to authority. Just because a government passes a law against something does not mean that that something is morally bad. John Dillinger knew exactly who to impress when he burned mortgages at the same time he robbed the banks of their money.

But cheating people is always morally bad. I generally like pot dealers, but I despise the ones who rip their customers off.

So if JN and the Mohawks are merely outlaws defying the government, cool. If they are incapable of actually "regulating" the online gambling industry, is that a surprise? But if they are involved in or helped cover up cheating, f-them.

Skallagrim

PS - none of this is to suggest that C. Fiji and his work are anything but true assets to the poker community, it is pretty tacky and stupid for JN to have threatened suit.
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