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Old 07-16-2008, 08:02 PM   #1
Cornell Fiji
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My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Chief Norton,

Sorry for taking so long to make this post but your lawyers sent the letter to my old address.


I would like to publicly retract the statement that I made calling Chief Joe Norton "one of the greatest Canadian organized crime figures in the 20th century."

I would also like to publicly retract the statement that Chief Norton was the "center of many organized crime operations" and the implication that he was involved in "gun running, drug trafficking, illegal tobacco production and trade, money laundering, tax evasion and tax fraud"

I tried my best to keep all opinion out of my previous posts as I sought to only restate the facts as I had learned through my research. My research led me to believe that members of the Kahnawake tribe were involved in gun running, drug trafficking, illegal tobacco production and trade, money laundering, tax evasion and tax fraud. It has been a little while since I engrossed myself in learning about the Kahnawakes so I might have forgotten where some of the evidence is but upon a quick review of a sample of the articles that I have saved it seems that there is less evidence to back up my claims of the financial crimes than there is of the other crimes. Upon the threat of a lawsuit I would have to say that I do not have enough evidence of money laundering, tax evasion, or tax fraud to cover my ass in court so I would like to publicly retract my statement that the Kahnawake's were involved in those crimes unless I can find the links to support those claims.

Furthermore, in my previous comments I sometimes associated the 8,000 member Kahnawake indian tribe with its chief of twenty years when in fact they are not one and the same. I should have stated that members the Kahnawake tribe partook in the crimes listed above and that Chief Norton was the head of their organization; I should not have stated that Chief Norton was the head of an organization committing those crimes.

Like I have previously stated, I have not done any first hand research into the tribe or its activities. All that I know about the tribe and the crimes that its members allegedly partook in is gleaned from the sources linked below. Unfortunately, I have lost some of the links from my research but if any of my comments about alleged illegal activity are not backed up in the links below please let me know and I will try to find more evidence of the alleged crimes.

Chief Norton, please let me know if there is anything else that you would like me to publicly clarify on your behalf.


Police rivalry wrecks Kahnawake raid
(windspeaker news; pro native source) 10/97
Notice how they brag about and take pride in their coverups.
Members of the elected Kahnawake council took action to prevent a joint Royal Canadian Mounted Police/ Montreal Urban Community police operation on their territory, thwarting a raid that the RCMP believe would have yielded important evidence about smuggling and money laundering. The raid was to have been a key part of a massive police operation which resulted in the arrest of 30 people and seizures valued at over $100 million.
You might recognize Joe Norton who was mentioned in this coverup, he is now the owner of AP/UB
An RCMP spokesman in Montreal said that raids scheduled for Sept. 10 on Kahnawake properties owned by Matthew "Watio" Lazare were cancelled after council members told police that news of the upcoming raids had been leaked.

Councillors urged government and police officials to cancel the raids, saying the police officers' safety had been compromised by the leak.

But a Montreal Gazette story published several days after the fact revealed that Lazare and his associate Bryan Jacobs did not know about the planned raid. The story suggests that Chief Joe Norton and his council took steps to prevent the raid for political reasons and misled the off-reserve police services in order to prevent the raid.
The Mounties allege that the organizations involved "individuals related to outlaw motorcycle gangs, and dealt with various aspects of organized crime, namely: selling and buying bootleg alcohol, dealing in and possession of stolen goods, fraud, drug importation and trafficking, counterfeiting, bribery of federal public servants, alcohol cigarette and tobacco smuggling."

Because of the huge amounts of money involved in the criminal activity alleged by the RCMP and the appearance that the council shielded Lazare from the outside authorities, the perception is that the council must somehow be involved in some of the criminal activity. The Kahnawake council member who holds the policing portfolio is Chief Phillip Jacobs. He hotly denies the council is shielding Lazare but he said he knows where that idea came from.


Online betting, cocaine worth millions to crime ring
(CBC News, Canada) 11/06

The organized crime ring with Mafia connections broken up by police this week was running a multi-million dollar online sports betting racket and a slick cocaine trafficking ring at the Montreal airport, the RCMP say
"The organization gave [drug] couriers passes from customs and excise so that they could cross the border without any problem," he said. The bookmaking operation, worth about $26 million over the past 18 months, involved an internet site where people could place online sports bets. The site was once hosted on a server in Belize, but had moved to the Kahnawake reserve west of Montreal in 2005. Some 820,000 online bets were made between 2004 and 2006, according to the RCMP.

The organization also ran a marijuana smuggling operation that acquired dope in the Laval and Montreal regions, and used the Akwesasne Territory to ship the illegal substances to Florida, the Mounties said.

Guns, drugs, cash seized in massive multi-reserve raid
(National Post) 3/08
Police have arrested 29 suspects and seized weapons, drugs and cash in a massive police crackdown Wednesday on a "criminal organization" involved in the smuggling of marijuana to the United States.

A team of aboriginal, provincial and federal police served notice that they've made a serious dent in what they described as a multimillion dollar marijuana pipeline from Mohawk reserves near Montreal into the United States.
Barrels of marijuana worth an estimated $1-million, bundles of $2 -illion in cash, assault rifles, three grenade launchers and some brass knuckles were seized in the operation which mobilized 300 officers.
Tribal police lead cross-border drug bust
(Indian Country Today) 04/08

Those arrested face charges of gangsterism, drug exportation, illegal weapons possession, drug possession, drug trafficking, conspiracy to traffic drugs, conspiracy to export drugs and drug manufacturing. Police are still searching for two more suspected smugglers.

Kahnawake Grand Chief Mike Ahrihrhon Delisle Jr. issued a statement of support for the arrests, and a warning.

''The Mohawk Council of Kahnawake fully supports this Peacekeeper-led initiative. We are pleased that it appears to have been very successful and, additionally, took place without incident or injury. We do not - and will not - support such illegal activity within the territory. Anyone who chooses to take part in such activities should take warning.''
Mohawks Accused of Smuggling Drugs Across U.S.-Canada Border
( 3/08
Police who seized heavy weapons during a recent drug raid say that Mohawk Indian territory is being used to smuggle drugs south into the U.S., the Canadian Press reported March 27.



Reed is now a convicted dealer in illegal weapons in Vermont who claims that he has personally sold about 900 weapons to Mohawks who then smuggle the guns across the border from New York to Quebec. The routes used by the cigarette and liquor smugglers serve the weapons smugglers as well. He claims that two Mohawks from Kahnawake approached him in 1991 to buy guns that they could smuggle into Canada. Guns traced back to Reed have been found with drug dealers, robbers and street thugs from Toronto to Vancouver.

The warriors smuggled guns have been used in five murders, eleven robberies, two assaults, nine attempted murders, twelve narcotics violations, two suicides and two death threats. Another 41 of his guns have been seized by police searches. Reed told a reporter that Mohawks fill out fake U.S. Federal firearms transaction forms, purchase the guns, bribe border custom agents and carry the guns from the U.S side of Akwesasne to the Quebec side. Reed cooperated with the ATF on their investigation. A 1994 Bureau of AFT reports from Burlington, VT show that 67 weapons from Reed ended up in crimes in Canada
Study Claims Smuggling Real Culprit in Gun Deaths
Summary of Mackenzie Institute report. Ottawa Times.

The report draws extensively from RCMP information on their efforts to stem the flow of guns while attempting to eliminate the smuggling of other contraband. The majority of their work is centred in and around the Akwesasne, Ganiengeh and Kahnawake Indian reservations in southern Quebec. Reports from the RCMP in June of this year state that it is doubling the strength of the smuggling strike force along the Quebec-United States border. The largest contingent of officers from the newly formed Border Investi gation Branch will be positioned near the Akwesasne Mohawk reserve, a key crossing-point for contraband.

Gun law doesn't apply to us, Mohawks insist
(Montreal Gazette) 01/01 -- you need to scroll down 20% of the page to find this article, or just ctrl-f for Kahnawake

I believe that this quote is actually a misidentification as the Chief at the time was AP/UB owner Joe Norton though it could be a relative of his named Timmy

Council spokesman Timmy Norton was tight-lipped about what kind of firearms currently exist in Kahnawake - at different times alleged to be the centre of smuggling rings for automatic weapons and handguns - and how they are controlled.
``There is already a way firearms are controlled within the community with the Mohawk council and the people of Kahnawake,'' Morris said. ``They are in the best position to do so as opposed to trying to impose federal law within our community.''

(Criminal Intelligence Service Canada) 1998 -- summary of CIS report 3/4 down the page. Hit ctrl-f to find Kahnawake

Machine guns, automatic and semi-automatic weapons were seized by the RCMP on the Kahnawake Reserve, south of Montreal, in September 1997. The seized weapons were part of a black market operation that sold firearms, explosives, drugs, cigarettes and alcohol. Relations between this Mohawk community and police were strained, but there was noretaliation for the seizure.
Aboriginal street gangs continue to expand in the Prairie provinces.


(NY Times) 12/98

Ring Is Cracked in Smuggling Of Illegal Chinese Immigrants

American and Canadian authorities announced today that they had broken up a sophisticated ring that smuggled Chinese immigrants into the United States, and ultimately to New York City, through a Mohawk reservation along the border.

The authorities said the ring, made up primarily of Chinese citizens and members of the Mohawk tribe,
Today's announcement highlighted the extent to which the 28-square-mile Indian reservation that straddles two Canadian provinces and one American state has become a haven for smugglers. The foggy creeks and wooded islands of the Indian territory, which is known as the St. Regis Mohawk Reservation on the American side, and the Akwesasne Indian Territory in Canada, have long been used to spirit gasoline, cigarettes, tobacco and drugs between the two countries.


Battle heats up over native tobacco trade
(National Post, Canada) 5/08

In 2006, the RCMP seized a record 456,333 cartons across Canada. That was a 16-fold increase from 2001, but still a tiny fraction of last year's estimated illegal trade of 50 million cartons. Some of the cigarettes are being produced in facilities on Kahnawake, but the RCMP says most come from illicit manufacturers on the U. S. side of the Akwesasne Mohawk reserve, which straddles the borders of Ontario, Quebec and New York State.
These next two quotes remind me of the KGC / Mohawk reaction to AP/UB

And even Kahnawake Grand Chief Mike Delisle, while defending the Mohawks' right to sell tax-free tobacco, acknowledges that the lure of easy money has attracted organized crime to his community. "The infiltration now of outside influence and forces and organized crime -- gangsterism as they call it --it really can't be denied," Chief Delisle said in an interview.
Mr. Delisle, the Grand Chief, recognizes that something needs to be done to control the current tobacco free-for-all. At the moment, anybody on the reserve can open a smoke shack and sell cigarettes.

Rules, he said, would have to be set and enforced by the ab-originals themselves. He talked of creating a Mohawk regulatory body to patrol the industry and said he is in contact with other aboriginal communities about co-ordinating efforts.

"If [outside governments] have identified now for 25 years that the majority of the problem rests in First Nations territory, why can't they formally understand that the majority of the answers must rest in First Nations territory as well?" he asked.
Illegal Smokes Pose Challenge for Police
(The Epoch Times, Canada) 5/08

Mike Delisle, grand chief of the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake, told the Ottawa Citizen recently that the band doesn't consider the sale and manufacture of tobacco products on their land illegal and warned that "confrontation" can be expected if more raids are carried out.
"The better way is to let us as First Nations regulate the business and let us legitimize the tobacco business on First Nations. And if we're able to take a little bit of revenue out of that then that's fine. What's wrong with that? We are a third level of government." He also suggests levying a "health tax," which would go directly to First Nations government and health programs. This would discourage tobacco consumption and "bring First Nations tobacco products in line with mainstream tobacco pricing." Non-natives who buy their smokes on-reserve would also be taxed.

"We've grown tobacco for thousands of years and what we want to be able to do is to regulate it ourselves so for all intents and purposes, for any government, then it is legitimized," says Beaucage.
Not that the US Govt is the most reliable source but...
Thompson says American law enforcement agencies have noted that "people associated with Hezbollah have been moving tobacco around" that comes from Grand River Enterprises, a licensed Six Nations tobacco company.

"That doesn't mean that Grand River Enterprises knows what they're doing, they're just selling cigarettes to interested buyers and I don't think they really pay that much attention to the idea that Hezbollah is perhaps profiting from their product," says Thompson.

As well as drugs, cigarettes and firearms, other smuggled items include contraband liquor, illegal refrigerants and illegal aliens, says Thompson.

"Once you've got a contraband pipeline you can move almost anything."
Several articles linked on illegal tobacco trade
(National Post, Hamilton Spectator) 11/07 - 5/08

The 1990 Oka crisis, which left one provincial police officer dead at nearby Kanesatake and prompted a lengthy Mohawk blockade of the Mercier Bridge next to Kahnawake, is never far from authorities' minds when considering how to tackle crime here.
Two years before Oka, an RCMP raid on Kahnawake tobacco vendors led to 17 arrests and the seizure of $450,000 worth of tobacco products. It also triggered a 29-hour armed standoff when, in retaliation, Mohawks blocked highways through Kahnawake.
He cited an analysis of cigarette butts outside school yards in Ontario and Quebec which suggested the penetration of illegal cigarettes amongst children is running at 30%, and up to 70% in some areas of Quebec.
"More broadly, all Canadians must be concerned that a culture be allowed to develop of casual law-breaking," he said.
Pertinant Adam Smith quote:
The Mohawks can scarcely be blamed for wanting to improve their own condition. As Adam Smith also noted, this desire is so powerful that "it is alone and without any assistance capable not only of carrying on the society to wealth and prosperity but of surmounting the hundred impertinent obstructions with which the folly of human laws often encumber its operations."
Funny example of Mohawk's disregard for the truth in one of the tobacco articles:
The issue became more heated just last week when Elected Band Chief David General issued a warning to the community not to be enticed "to the dark side" by "big money and tobacco."
...He added that he does not know "at this time, if SixNet is pursuing providing their services to on-line casinos."

But a spokesperson for Absolute Poker said SixNet is the provider of Absolute's online servers.
"We've had our Six Nations, or the SixNet, licence for about three years and the games are hosted out of their facility in Ontario," said Jason Reindorp, a media relations spokesperson for Absolute Entertainment S.A, the Costa Rica-based parent of the poker site.
Canadian Smuggling Investigation Continues
(Toronto Globe & Mail) 01/99

Native smoke isn't always a sign of fire
(MacLeans) 1/08

Noting Kahnawake's reputation as a smuggling haven, O'Connell laments the "assumption that everything that comes from natives is illegal."
Crack down on illegal smokes: Dumont
(Montreal Gazette) 05/08
But the government insisted this is not the time for rash action and said governments need to learn from past mistakes, as in the 1990 Oka crisis, in which a police officer was killed.
Native leader warns of confrontations over tobacco strategy
(Canwest News) 5/08

You **** with the Kahnawake's revenue stream they bring out the big guns (literally)
But Mike Delisle, grand chief of the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake, says it will be a "huge mistake" if the RCMP plan to step up such raids...

"If they're making the statement that raids are imminent, then obviously it concerns me, and I would hope that the federal government or the RCMP in conjunction (with the government) are smarter and take a more collaborative approach as opposed to running roughshod over this community, as they've tried in the past. Obviously, it didn't work out to anyone's benefit," he said.

Delisle said the response from his community could range from a peaceful standoff to "what we've seen in the past in terms of confrontation."

"Our past track records show that we have problem with invasion, regardless of whether you're talking about 400 years ago or 1990. I think they'd get a negative reaction from the community in general if they took that approach."

Underground sales rise as plastic bags with illicit tobacco trucked across Canada
The Canadian Press; 04/08

NY Times article on Kahnawake tobacco trade from 1988
This week, the trade turned sour. After the Royal Canadian Mounted Police raided stores on the Kahnawake Indian reserve south of Montreal, seizing $365,000 worth of cigarettes and arresting 17 people, young Indians from the reserve dumped tons of gravel onto one of the principal highways leading out of Montreal. The militants, guarding the blockade with rifles, blocked traffic on the highway for 30 hours.


Quebec fights Mohawk Nation over online gambling jurisdiction: to cough up $2m
(The register, UK newspaper). 12/07

Cyber World operated the online casino from a server on the Kahnawake reservation, which is located just outside of Montreal. About 60 per cent of the world's online gambling traffic flows through the Kahnawake servers, which reportedly possess the largest concentration of bandwidth in North America.
Quebec Fines Online Site; More Headaches for Kahnawake Mohawks
( 12/07
CBC News reported this week that Cyber World Group, parent of, has pled guilty to two charges of illegal gambling and has been levied a $2 million fine by the Quebec provincial government. While unfortunate for Cyber World Group, the case signals what may be the long awaited jurisdictional showdown between the provincial government and the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

The charges against Cyber World Group stem from an investigation launched more than a year ago, punctuated by a raid of their Montreal offices. But the Surete du Quebec, Quebec's Provincial Police, have been investigating the Kahnawake reserve's online gaming business since at least November, 2003. Loto Quebec and Quebec's alcohol, racing and gaming board have long contended that the Kahnawake operation is illegal.
Kahnawake's resident cybercasino giant fined for illegal gaming
(CBC News, Canada) 11/07

The company that administers the world's largest internet casino — Golden — has pleaded guilty in Quebec to charges of illegal gambling
Canadian Goverment Targets Kahnawake Online Gambling Sites
(Online gambling 03/08

March 9 - The Canadian federal government is reported to be targeting what it sees as illegal gambling sites in the Kahnawake reserve near Montreal.

Kahnawake- A Regulatory Overview
(; subscribers only) 4/08

Kahnawake’s future as a remote gambling licensing jurisdiction has been subject to much debate over the last year due to allegations of cheating and a rejection to be included on the UK "white list" of approved jurisdictions. This report looks at the development of gaming in Kahnawake and examines the legitimacy of the jurisdiction from a historical, political and legal perspective.


Mohawks To Be "Offshore" Banking Power
(first nations drum; pro native group)

The Kahnawake Mohawk Nation in Quebec says it will establish its reserve as a "sovereign financial territory" and transform it into a major "offshore" tax haven, with out federal or provincial government approval.
The plan now is to lure investors with a range of financial services and accounts "hidden ... for obvious tax reasons," according to Chief Rice.

"Why can't we take business from Antigua and put it on the St. Lawrence?" he said.

"Of course Canada and others will say that it's impossible, that what we're doing is illegal ... [That] will be our battle."

OKA CRISIS:,00.html

Transcript of Native defense statement in a Canadian Parliment hearing from 03/99 which discusses the Mohawk's reputation as a criminal enterprise

A very throurough and detailed forum post about Kahnawake's criminal past including Kahnawake Gaming Commission and Absolute Poker

In addition to the gun running and smuggling, the drug dealers moved into the communities
This is a thourough timeline Kahnawake's recent sordid history

The Long Fall of the Mohawk Warriors

Mohawk Nation News

"Mohawk Nation News March 27 2007. It looks like the psychotics from the U.S. have hijacked Canadian policy taking Canada back to medieval blood lust. A 250-page field manual on counterinsurgency is being put out by Canada's Department of National Defense DND for its soldiers and officers. Jon Elmer of Global Research wrote on March 25, 2007, about these new methods of fighting insurgents like the “Taliban”, the “Chechnyans” and the “Mohawk Warrior Society”. Wait a minute, that’s us!

Let’s not kid ourselves. The main purpose of an army is to shoot and kill. "
Joe Norton consults with company that produces tracking devices, agrees to mandate devices for Kahnawake members:
(McGill) 10/04

Former Kahnawake chief, Joe Norton, has been hired as a consultant. His services are appreciated because he brought the Assembly of First Nations on board. Joe Norton, Amanda Grainger and Mark Cushing met in late October 2004 in Ottawa with the AFN. The AFN then met with the Minister of Indian Affairs and got his support.

So this is how things work in Canada. A private American company with ties to the U,S. government gets an idea. They sell it to the Mohawk Council of Kahnawake. Joe Norton sells it to the AFN, which sells it to Indian Affairs. It’s probably not even necessary to slip another revision of the Indian Act past Canada’s sleepy M.P.’s. And there you have it. Smart cards get their foot in the door and Indians get ruled by American Big Business.

Other links involving Joe Norton (registration required):\29602842.html\29602842.html\14685784.html\28026913.html\27979149.html\28026913.html\27979149.html\14685784.html\29504357.html

Last edited by Cornell Fiji; 07-16-2008 at 08:14 PM. Reason: added another link
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:07 PM   #2
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Lol, what a joke these people are
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:07 PM   #3
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

I dunno if u had posted all of this stuff before, but if not, LOL owned.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:08 PM   #4
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Wow. How long did that take you? I'm really curious, not being rhetorical.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:08 PM   #5
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Hmm, you should really do more research before going out on a limb and making comments like you did....
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #6
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Well at least we know where the threats are coming from.

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #7
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Sounds to me like you were spot on, but i guess that is the point of this. It's a total level while being legally in line. I don't think anyone who was a bonus hunter or knows anything about Kahnawake thinks they are anything but a bunch of crooks and liars. I'll be awaiting your letter chiefy boy.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:13 PM   #8
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

awesome post. This stuff is just unreal.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:16 PM   #9
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

lol, how did i miss this the first time around? thanks for doing all that work to uncover all that info. glad you had to apologize too, otherwise many of us wouldnt have found out about all of it.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:16 PM   #10
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:17 PM   #11
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Cornell Fiji

That is all.

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:21 PM   #12
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

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Old 07-16-2008, 08:21 PM   #13
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

what a punch of drama queens.

tell them to f-off.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:21 PM   #14
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Of the dozens of super-user accounts discovered on Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet poker have any been revealed by Tokwiro/AP/UB "security" before they were uncovered here by 2+2 posters?

Why is a group of 2+2 volunteers without access to AP or UB systems still more effective than the combined efforts of Tokwiro, Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet?
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:23 PM   #15
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

thread might need cliffnotes imo
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:28 PM   #16
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Cry Me A River - KGC?
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:30 PM   #17
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

[ ] wants to get on fiji's bad side
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:34 PM   #18
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

SWEET retraction !!! i laughed so hard i almost peed myself.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:35 PM   #19
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

That's not going to buff out.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:37 PM   #20
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

I see what you did there
Cornell Fiji, I swear you are my HERO man
If you're from the US perhaps you should consider running for president or something - or at least we maybe 2+2 has enough power that we can all vote you a WSOP bracelet - hey its been done before !
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:38 PM   #21
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Like most Canadians have realizide Dont mess with them Indians and there Gambling revenue or Illegal smoke buisiness
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:42 PM   #22
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

And this is who is "regulating" online gambling! What a huge joke. If this doesn't cast any suspicions on the legitimacy of online poker, I don't know what does. If online gambling is going to survive, it absolutely must be regulated by a legitimate entity, not some bogus tribe that slaps a label on themselves and demands authority out of smoke (no pun intended).
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:44 PM   #23
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Great work Fiji, but in all seriousness, are you concerned about these people retaliating in a nasty or even violent manner?
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:44 PM   #24
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

Originally Posted by hennnerz View Post
thread might need cliffnotes imo
redding iss hards
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:48 PM   #25
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Re: My retraction of certain statements made about UltimateBet and Joe Norton

You are one 'brave' (geddit) geezer.

You are right to expose them for all that they are. Good work fella. I just think you are mad doing this.

Do you really think that the 2+2 community can protect you if the excrement hits the air-cooling system? If you do you must be mental. All 2+2 posts about your post owning them, and LOL, will mean exactly nothing if the Red Indians decide to really come after you.

Are 2+2 posters gonna pay for your lawyers too?

You have my greatest respect sir, and that of many others, but what do you hope to get out of it? A humble apology? a crying admittance that they were wrong and you are right? For them to all come out with their hands up? Aint gonna happen mate.

As long as the poker community gets justice for the AP/UB stuff, and those who were robbed get their cash back and the perpetrators jailed, then that will do wont it?

Whats the use in dragging all this other stuff in (even though its prolly true)? Let it go, it wont help your case in getting justice for the poker world, it'll just make the Kanawahokedokey dig their heels in even more, and if they decide to really come out firing, then what? May start to feel awful lonely.

Deepest respect

EsraC is offline   Reply With Quote


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