Super weak. If you're going to fob off questions like that with the old "well I don't like it myself", combined with the playground "everyone else does it" then it's hardly worth bothering with this. We're not talking about what you're a fan of or what everyone else does, you're here to justify the actions of your employer. Can you do it or not ?

Mouthpiece. Got it.

Grunching, but I confirmed with Joe that it was him

Props for stepping up.

i have no doubt that some of the original owners are still around, bob. i believe that anyone who was involved or implicated in the cheating scandal at AP are not still. at least that's what my information and snooping around has turned up. as always, if anyone has any concrete information that proves they are there, i would def listen.

Sebok, you're still using Aguilar's GF as a wedge, huh? You have dirt on Aguilar and/or his GF, but your initial DM wasn't blackmail? Are you serious?

This latest post of yours is extremely damning, and until now I had taken no side on this drama. The only way your initial DM was defensible was by taking it to mean a hypothetical situation where some hypothetical person had dirt on Aguilar's GF and disclosed it to his embarrassment, not a real situation where a real person (Joe Sebok) had real information they were really threatening to disclose.

Nice to see an apology.

"I was not telling him I was literally going to expose skeletons in his closet"

The blackmail accusation is based on this skeleton sentence. Perhaps you could explain what you meant if that wasnt a threat to expose skeletons because it looked like this.

I don't want to bombard Joe with hate, but seriously, the man is here, reading the posts... why pussie foot around it...

Joe, do you realize the implications that the UB cheating had on peoples lives (Brad Booth for example) and do you feel comfortable repping that company with so many questions still unanswered about their past?

Do you feel like you jumped in this thing head first for the money and now feel compelled to continue defending them to maintain your kush job and salary even though you are not completely sure of what has gone down in the past?

Since your crusade began exactly nothing has come out except exactly what people like haley, mookman, elevengrover, etc have put out, do you honestly think UB has been proactive at all in uncovering anything? and a response of we haven't made all of what we have discovered would be to schilly, you have no choice but to put it out there....

Isn't Mark Seif a current AP pro? wasn't he involved in super using per another thread?

I am a UB hater..... and by associated a Prahlad, Sebock, etc hater... I just think you guys could have done so much better for yourselves by maintaining your dignity and passing on the paydays.... just my 2 cents...

i tell you what. i will def write an email to paul and let him know that i don't think this is the way to go if it is going on.

Good thank you, but not 'if it is going on' but 'because it is going on'.

Thanks for taking your time to post in this thread though.

Joe, thank you for the link. The issue I have is that current ownership wants to point at the old Excapsa bloc and say that all the evil was there, but this simply is not so, and I am aware of legal maneuverings going on in Europe connected to the AP side of things. This is stuff that is still in process so I can't say much more on it.

I will also say this: I have been in indirect contact with Paul (through Kat Farrell) yesterday and today regarding a document that I will publish in Vol. 31. There is a line in the correspondence that grates on me about "you know this information was obtained illegally" or some such. UB wants to claim the high ground in this, so I have asked Kat/Paul to provide me the names of the "authorities" they worked with in conjunction with the KGC as the scandal was audited and the findings was prepared. I've also asked for the name of the OIJ official Paul claims to have communicated with, and I will happily forward the anonymous e-mail I received on to both of them. At the same time I'll forward the thing on to the FBI and the SDNY DoJ, now that we have reasonable confirmation that the information within is real and not faked.

In short, I'm calling your masters' bluff and I'm doing it publicly.

There are rumors afoot that the "authorities" the findings went to were nothing more than telling the story to a brother-in-law of a KGC/MIT worker, with said brother-in-law being on the Mohawk tribal police force. Technically I guess the wording would then be true but we can see it as pure sham if so. I'm not asserting that this is true, but I certainly want to know. Either way, I think it's time we learned the full extent of this.

joe in your intrviews you say how your happy with the things youve done and ready to move past the scandal

when asked about authoritys this was reported to you always say somthing like "all we can do is report what we have and its their job to move forward"

do you really think people should move on and trust ub when a company inside man stole 22 million and is living openly golfing and playing poker?

you also say haley/mookman investigating this are on a "whichhunt"
it seems so ridiculous to say this with all the lifes ruined and no justice is being served

hi joe,

would be interested to hear some substantial (read: not diluted) responses to mookman's post #94, and haralabob's post #102.

i have a lot of questions myself, but cmon we both know you are incapable of any real dialogue on the matter.

also, you keep acting like there is this overall negative perception about 2+2 in the "real poker world". there isn't. and you probably know that, but if you are just basing it on your insular surroundings and your friends and actually believe it, please realize that you are pretty off the mark.

Fair play Joe for stepping into the forum and knowingly putting yourself onto the frontline. It was a brave move. Do you think though that it has been worth it? Or indeed, do you think your decision to sign with UB was, in hindsight, the right decision?

Joe, is there truly an active, vigorous effort to produce the hand histories, or is that just a crock? This was an abhorrent situation, I would think there would be an Herculean effort on your (and others') part to get the truth out so that your company has a fighting chance of being taken seriously again someday.

LMFAO, slow learners this lot.

Until you came along...

Huh? Jon asked him about the GF part.

So there are skeletons?

Also, what are your thoughts on Daniel Negreanu.

FYP, anything else is an insult to one's intelligence

i don't have a master, haley, just fyi. i think that the more information that you bring out the better. i would caution you to understand that ub and the kgc are two seperate entities though. i'm not sure if we can take full responsibility if kgc did or didn't do something. i'm sure you will cite this as covering for ub, but i'm merely speaking the truth here.

excellent post. I think the secondary reason (primary being the cheating and stealing of money, along with the cover-up) everyone hates on Joe is that we all WANT to like him, but he's made it so difficult.

Joe, you should 100% be on the side of poker players. NOT 75%, or 50%, or whatever you're trying to do in straddling the UB fence.

I think you released everything you were given, but that you were set up in this. More to follow on this at a later date, since I'm still working on.

And thanks for stepping up and posting.

wow. some of the old owners are still around, just not the ones who were caught/implicated in cheating. says the company and owners that were there when the company cheated its customers.

im not sure how this is somehow okay to you or how you would expect anyone to find this palatable.

and you put the burden of doubt on the customers that were robbed. this is so backwards its unbelievable.

i dont see why it even matters whether or not this guy comes here or apologizes. who cares. do something useful sometime instead of just being scumbag shill and maybe i'll give a ****.

edit: obv if that was gonna happen it would have been a long time ago

already answered bob's post and i'm quite sure that mook's will be beyond me in terms of detail.

i can't imagine why people wouldn't feel comfortable here, snaggle. aren't you the guy who lied about the hand that i played at the bike 3-4 years ago and tweets at me assorted swears and threats, as well as your insult above?

i guess we can just agree to disagree about who lives in the "real poker world".