Not quite sure what you're asking...

Also, why did you FMP to spell "you're" wrong?

Have you ever seen an NVGtard spell "you're" correctly?

Anyway, what I'm saying is.. He possibly works for and with the names that will be mentioned. I don't see how he could possibly out them.

If someone were able to provide undeniable facts, it would be different, but then they wouldn't be questions we would need answered.

Glad to see Joe Sebok posting here in response to the controversy. Dialog is good.

I think this would be the best way to go. And even have Haley and mookman on the line also asking questions. I love the pokercast, but I'm sure both Mike and Adam agree with me that Haley and mookman know a lot more and know a lot more in detail compared to Mike and Adam.

(also, there might be some chance that Haley could ask a question or two, which information has not yet been disclosed to other 2+2 members).

lol

I don't think a UB rep is going to come one twoplustwo and admit to tons of wrongdoing out of nowhere.

However, if there are specific things Haley, mook, or others have alleged that are not true, a UB rep should be in the position to provide evidence that that is the case. If they can't, and can't provide good reasons why they can't, that's pretty damning. That's why asking them these questions should be interesting.

i think an openended, written dialogue would be much better. something like an NVG thread that only an approved list of a dozen people or so can post in. it's too easy to dodge questions, provide half answers, and promise to look into things in a real time, spoken interview.

How can you put your head on the line for a company that has the horrific history that UB has yet you only "believe that the current ownership is different from the former ownership"

If I was going to take a load of flack for representing the cancer of online poker I would "Know" the management was different otherwise I'd be going elsewhere.

Oh F UB too

Im suprised at the lack of NVGtardedness in this thread. You guys must be monitoring it pretty heavily.

Why not do something like post a couple questions per day (obv people like haley, grover etc. would be asking the questions) and make the thread for everybody to be able to read? Maybe a seperate thread open to everybody for question suggestions or whatever.

Example would be the current UB scandal thread where only kevmath can edit and write posts, cept you extend the amount of people to whoever.

I think this would be a good format for it. What is our expectation level though? There is only so much that he could probably address from a legal perspective.

I just fail to understand why you wanna represent them. After the cheating scandal the brand will always be dead. It doesnt matter even if 100 % of the current management are all saints - The. Brand. Is. Dead! Even God cannot revive it.

When it comes to the DM it was pathetic which you apologized for. Case closed. We all do stupid stuff when we get emotional so thats fine.

I really don't know. Get it started, see where it goes. If there's anything they're willing to talk about there will be interesting questions to ask. If it ends with Legget or whoever else UB appoints to the task just stonewalling and refusing to comment on anything, I don't think anyone is worse off than they currently are.

I want xyz answers, but Sebok does not give me xyz but claimed to find out and expose xyz when he signed. Now he says 'we' berate him for not having xyz answers, but did he not promise to find such answers for the community? Don't make promises you can't keep, don't try to play victim, don't try to please everyone. Man the **** up.

This is exactly what I'm suggesting as well, in case I wasn't clear.

I would like to know the answer to this as well. Everyone at the "new" UB claims they want to clean up the company name, but nobody is making any effort to address the serious allegations that continue to come up here on a nearly week-to-week basis.

How can you honestly expect us to cut you some slack when you make zero noticeable effort to actually work with the community here to clear things up?

If you are serious about actually doing something to help the UB image in the community, you will do what Ike is asking and make an effort to communicate with the community here on 2p2.

why did UB tell the poker community everyone was refunded in full based on the HH then when asked to provide the HH with you leading the charge Joe admit 2 years later 10% of the HH were gone due to server crash and now you site Haley that the real reason the HH are gone is b/c Peirson had the HH deleted ?

with or without UB cooperation ?

no one expects a Rep to know everything but for gosh sakes can you at least find out to your own satisfaction who the owners of Avione are so at least you can tell us " I know for a fact who the owners of Avione are and there are no cheaters among them" would go a long way to boosting your credibility Joe

you didn't go out on a limb you are doing the right thing but if you don't know an answer can you at least make the effort to please find out and get back to us ?

ouch

gotta go with Ike here



you cant expect UB to publicly disclose company info but they can disclose to Joe and Joe testify to the poker community - like Barryg said Joe may be naive but hes not a lair

especially a girl this cute


Mikie has to otherwise he couldn't take UB affiliate money and ads

Joe tell Leggett to MAN UP this is the place that busted the UB cheating wide open or it would be continuing to this day common brah a forum is not a gotcha interview take 2 days to answer if you have to

The longer UB stays open and the longer all this can be dragged out the more money they are all making. It's only still around because of the unique catch 22 dynamic of poker, educated players leaving means higher concentration of fish, attracts back educated players.

If this happened to any other company they would be dragged through the courts and would be starved of any income pretty quickly from the public.

I think what would be best for the poker community is to completely amputate them, have them shut down and chase anyone legally responsible, and then working on repairing what damage they caused. Being constantly strung along by management only serves them, nothing good can ever come of it. They've had their chance(s) to come clean and repeatedly failed to. It's a complete and utter dismal failure. I don't trust any of them, and with good reasons.

There is pretty much nothing I could ever read or hear from anyone associated with UB to change this anymore.

"However, neither Phil nor Annie now has regular contact with Greg Pierson."

quote is from the link.... at what time period is this know?

I apologize the interruption but could somebody facilitate the link to Brad Booth´s latest interview ? thx

Joe,

You admitted on the Cardrunners Podcast that you don't know who the current owners of UB are.

How do you know that you're not working for the same people who cheated thousands of 2+2 members? Just because Paul tells you so?

Haley and other reliable sources have posted that they have conclusive evidence that the AP cheaters own current UB. Given that you keep hearing this, why aren't you demanding that Leggett show you proof of who owns UB? Perhaps because you don't want to find out the truth?

It seems that you purposely stay ignorant so you can just say "I don't know" to the tough questions and not be pressured into keeping your word to quit.

Feel free to ignore these questions just like you have done with Mookman and just about everyone else who has asked you anything substantial.

btw joe i wasnt saying that paul should disclose cereus' owners to 2p2- just saying u should ask him to do that to you personally (and give your word u wont repeat it). Then u can see for urself if you think the story adds up. I personally think that in this case we (me/u mebbe not public) have similar information and ur not evaluating it right- but i could be wrong and id love for u to have more information and then tell people what you think instead of being fed either vry poorly supported truth, or- (more likely imo) company propaganda.

Trying to clear up your accusation of blackmail and then saying this

is just pure comedy

After considering your method, I agree that would be the way to go. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to set-up a thread or subforum where only a number of people can post.

I think the hard part of it all would be to get UB representative on board with this.

Shall wait to see what happens...

Emailed UB/AP politely requesting attention to a possible dialogue (outlined by Joe and Moderators) to be worked out. Sort of like constituents mass writing their elected officials, although the relationship isn't the same in this case.

I don't think it couldn't hurt for any UB/AP players to do the same. My email reads this, if you cerus players want to use it as a template:
Dear Sir or Madam,

I'd like to first extend my appreciation as a customer for the service I've received from Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker in the past 2 years. Payment processing, support emails, etc. have been followed up and all my needs have been addressed each time. So to the current employee or manager reading this: thank you.

I'm also taking this opportunity to make a request: please forward this email to those in higher management roles until it reaches an appropriate destination.
Joe Sebok recently opened dialogue amongst a portion of the "poker community" on the popular internet forum "twoplustwo". Joe managed to reach out to the forum moderators who are willing to arrange a controlled dialogue between UltimateBet ownership (read: Paul Leggett) and journalists who continue to investigate the ongoing controversy at UB/AP following the superuser scandals of '07 & '08.
I am not a constituent, and you are not an elected official. But I am writing because it is important to me not only as a customer and supporter of the Cerus Network, but as a soon-to-be manager with my own employer. I have it on good faith that Joe is doing what he can to get Paul Leggett's attention, but please find a way to inform Mr. Leggett that at least one more customer is concerned.


Much sincerity,

[My name]

First thing's first, fair play for posting and for the unreserved apology to Fatal Error. Of course doesn't excuse what you did, and don't really think you had much choice after it was aired here, but nevertheless I still doff my cap to you.

However -

Oh, and loving the built-in future disclaimer that is point 4: -

4. And yes, I believe that the current ownership is different from the former ownership. I have also heard constant claims that this is not so. Again, any proof of these claims would be great to see if it exists. I don't believe that it does. Of course, I am putting a great deal of faith in the current owners/management with making these claims, but that's what most of us do with our employers, and I am doing the same. Obviously if this were ever to be proven to be not true, I would feel duped.

What? Seriously? Let's be clear on this. Haley, mook and others are investigating the cheating and coming up with new information about what happened. That's what you said you were going to do. They are doing your job. In their spare time. Without inside access to UB's information like you have.

But you "can't touch the time" they spend on it? I need to repeat this it's so incredible, you don't have the time to do your job that other people do in their spare hours. What do you do all day?