Never played UB, never will. I believe the apology for tweets in OP was decent enough. The UB garbage is still there. If it smells like **** and looks like ****, you should consider it to be ****. Even if you bailed out you'll always be connected to UB... a shame.

Joe,

I know we've communicated in the past and remained fairly civil. I was one of the people to point out originally when UB was saying that they were providing full HH that the claim was impossible to prove because they would not allow their data to be tested for full / false inclusion. My point was proved correct later when UB finally admitted HH were missing.

I'm going to write an explanation to you (again) later about why it is at best implausible that ownership changed hands, but it will take some time to draft it and im' headed out to dinner with my wife. Please check back later and thanks for doing this.

Joe would Paul have more incentive to come and post if it was on a forum where only mods and respected users could ask him the questions?

I don't think that would be hard to set up.

Anybody that believes the things Brad Booth says is almost as delusional as he is.

Joe, are you regretting leaving your previous job and entering the online poker world?

we would all be much more likely to answer questions in that kind of situation. i'm just going out on a limb here, in hopes it can do some good, against most advice i've been given. i'm hopeful tho.

You unfortunately have to cut them a break for obfuscating company ownership considering the legal climate in the US regarding poker.

Sucks super bad but this is a unfortunate side effect of the ******ed US policy on gambling and/or poker.

I feel the second coming of UB is upon us.

Thats all fine, but please address the issue .Mr Sebok,
- why bring the OPs gf into it? what were you trying to imply?

That sounds like blackmail??? doesnt it???

i dont think people think you are lying, just that you lack some understanding of the situation, are a bit naive about things, and your stated goals within the company have proved to be disingenuous.

3rd party audit of servers/data/backups. Please?

[x] blackmail
[_] apology
[_] poker pro

Does anyone know how much was known to be stolen and how much of that was paid back?

No. That is not the problem. Any non credulous payer of attention should assume the company you represent is dirty. Why? Because it stole a ton of money, operates in a totally unregulated environment, and has a history of coverups.

Accept that you are never going to get any benefit of the doubt if you want to ever make any progress on the "finding stuff out and repairing UB's image" thing. Having a problem with people's perception of you or being called names in the process of a dialogue and using it as an excuse to not answer questions or talk in general is just shorthand for saying "I don't really want to do it." You waded into rough waters by signing with UB, some flaming on 2p2 should be expected. Dodging and skirting questions doesn't help. Neither does pleading ignorance.

So Jon, what is your call?

Hopefully something can be arranged because if he was to post here, I personally wouldn't want it to be in NVG zoo.

Okay, regardless of wording, what did you hope to achieve by referencing the fact that you knew xyz about Aguilar's GF, in the context of asking him to stfu?

Before I read what I perceive to be a damning post by you itt (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...1&postcount=38), I thought Aguilar might have been over-reacting like a little bitch pussy, but it seems you a) actually have dirt on Aguilar and b) were using that dirt to intimidate him, to get him to stop trashing UB. That's what blackmail is.

At the very least, you need a good PR man, and fast. I would stop posting itt, if I were you.

+1

GF sounds like a nutcase/druggy or something along those lines, which would explain why Jon is so upset, but JFC just let it go already...you did bring her into this yourself by posting your overdramatic OP; now just move the **** on and let's talk about UB.

i wanted to stay away from this stuff and simply take the high road by apologizing, but i guess i will point something out:

i never asked jon to "stop talking about ub" in any kind of a blanket sense. i asked him to stop bringing it into the Prah/Ike debate as none of that had anything to do with ub. i would never make a plea to someone to stop talking about ub. that would be pretty pathetic, imo. i was trying to keep it above the belt and got involved, which was a mistake. he knows exactly what i was asking him to do, which is why i was so disappointed in turning this into a circus.

he also never felt that i blackmailed him. i don't believe that for one second. i made an off the cuff comment to someone i know, btw. jon's not a stranger to me. he took it and ran with it in an attempt to blow it up. it obv worked.

at any rate, i'm kinda over this whole thing with aguiar. i think i've said my peace there and apologized for my hand in it.

pretty sure the hold up on this is that noone in the KGC has a relative with the required skillset. shame

I do not think my question is beyond you in terms of detail. My post was as simple as I could make it and included proof as to why I thought it or asked. 1. You said UB covered up somethings, Paul said they didn't. What was covered up then? 2. Paul said money left the AP site, but there seems to be evidence to the contrary. 3. UB said they want all the information to come out, but yet they have plenty of info they could release as well.

I guess when and if you have time to go over the detail and answer my questions, or ask Paul to answer them that would be great. Here is the link b/c you chose not to respond to any of it the first time and just call it too detailed.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...1&postcount=94

That's a fair reason to be worried, but that can't change if Paul/CEREUS avoid any kind of presence/communication on 2+2 - that avoidance really only makes the problem worse.

You coming here and starting a dialogue w/ us through this thread isn't that dissimilar of a situation, and I think doing that and apologizing to Jon is a good thing.

So joe has something on his gf.

Lets see if this blackmail/hypothetical blackmail/poor usage of words is working and fatal error stops demanding explanation and apology about inclusion of his gf into that message.

So since you really can't do much about the cheating at this point will you be terminating your contract with them or do you truly, honestly in the bottom of your heart think you can turn them around?

Don't worry Sebok, Aguiar is very into him self and complains about everything on his lil twitter account.

Normally, I'm one of the knee-jerk reactionists in NVG. But Joe, I have to give you credit for being willing to risk a great deal to speak for yourself rather than let ambiguity and rumor continue to swirl uncontrollably from other people.

I hope that people don't get things twisted: people reading all this data ought to accept that regardless of what the truth actually is, you truly believe what you're telling everyone is the complete truth of the matter.

But other than issuing an apology to Aguiar, what do you really hope to accomplish? Aren't you concerned that people at UB whom you work with, many of whom have been open with you regarding the specifics, will close ranks on you? What convinces you that UB's tailspin is over? If this backfires, aren't you out of a job in spite of all the positive things you're saying about UB?

And look, let's cut to the chase: are we going to see the hand histories in anyone's lifetime in this thread?