What are you talking about? His responsibility is that he doesn't have the money that he should.

If I understood correctly, your idea that he shouldn't 'out' and/or be mad at Max because he knew the risks of loaning, is simply IDIOTIC. Even loan companies out deadbeats in public (not sure about banks). Even if it doesn't help in this case, it's good precedent for the future - if you fail to pay me you are getting embarassed in public.

fwiw personally I didnt lend him the money, it was a currency transfer, he was supposed to send me a wire for PS $

If I knew he was gambling with it or that he owed people I'd have never done it, having known max for 4 years from before he binked those EPTs I didnt think he would do this, my mistake for not doing my homework

I wrote in op that I was repaid eventually.

I sell action for almost every schedule I play. I have a ton of reg buyers and alot of my friends do the same. Often my buyers are out shopping or not by a computer where they can xfer the $$ for some reason or another. It's a situation that happens time and time again. I have a group of friends in the same spot as me where we will often loan and borrow from each other until thier buyers can come in and xfer the money. Ofcourse the understanding is if buyer does roll on you then you are liable for the $$ borrowed but only confirm with buyers you can trust and done a decent amount of $$ with before.

I have achieved everything I set out for really in this thread except obvious(people being repaid back). I have personal issues with Max which is probably pretty obvious to anyone reading my comments. I take on board your comments about it being a negative freeroll. I just do it because I know there are a ton of times when I need to borrow at short notice and the more people I can trust and have a good loan/borrow relationship with the better. Odcourse I knew sooner or later someone was going to get me for it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to do the best I can to flame that person afterwards for taking advantage.

Thx for the happy bday land o lakes

So it's a week since Max made this post. And he claims he has enough liquid to pay everyone he owes back.

So......can anyone confirm actually getting paid back, yet?

So far all i've done is send out small amounts to people. (If you wanna count that as starting ppl back, then yea-but it wasnt really a lot so yeah) I'm in the proccess of getting money online so I will be able to send funds back to people. Also, im going to meet up w ppl and then they will confirm itt they have recd the money back from me.

These are all great reasons to borrow, but none are good reasons to lend. These are all legit reasons to borrow and because so, they are also common reasons used by broke players trying to get a stake in hopes to run good and pay off the loan and get a roll started.

Maybe it's changed, but all anyone had to do was email Stars and get authorization to wire large amounts. When the UIGEA was in full force, this wasn't an option so you either had to keep a large amount online (when Stars booted us I had ~30 months of living expenses on there) or dance with the devil and do intersite transfers with other players.

I chose to stay on one site, the only site I could trust with my money, and kept a large enough amount there so I wouldn't have to move down during heavy downswings. This wasn't optimal, as there would sometimes be very good cash games on Tilt when Stars was dead, but I was willing to sacrifice some EV for peace of mind (especially considering how poorly Tilt's accounting department was being run). When the **** hit the fan, 2 weeks later I got the fastest wire transfer via the Department of Justice for all my Stars money. The guys on Tilt got their money 3 years later.

When Neteller was king and no UIGEA, moving money, even large amounts, around from site to Neteller or bank to Neteller was hassle free and fee free. Stars didn't even have a player to player option back then. Is there no intermediary now in Europe that works like Neteller did in the early 2000's? Is vig being charged now?

+1

dunno bout you, but prior to BF, I used to get money just as fast from FTP as I did Stars. Either way, you're giving your reasons as to why not to lend or why you didn't need it. Doesn't mean it works for everyone else. Others have people that they trust (or thought they could) that they send money to all the time.

don't really have much to add but Max asked me for $10k on stars right around the time of scoop main saying he would pay back in Vegas. I'd met him at a couple live stops but didn't feel like I knew him well enough to be comfortable with lending him. Also this may be harsh but I hadn't heard of him winning anything in awhile so wasn't exactly sure about his liquidity. Guess I was pretty lucky in that respect.

It's pretty weird if he actually has the money to pay back most of his debts but I suppose most people don't want to give up the comfort of their lifestyle/postpone the inevitability of getting a job/winning at poker again etc. Much easier to keep kicking the can down the road...

not sure if its my place to mention this, since I didnt gave any money to him, but the whole still seems kinda strange:

please explain why youre paying out in small amounts if you have enough money to cover your "loans". also you were supposed to fix your list of anon's to at least make sure everyone is on that list (obv it is really easy to just put 3x $2000 instead of 20x -- not saying its the case but it would ease your situation.)

and please please please dont derail this thread - this could cost ppl a bunch of money when the pressure of the community is gone. #justsayin

For the last year and a half prior to BF, I was getting wires from Stars within 2 days. I'm not aware if Tilt was even using wires.

Anyway, yes, I get the peer to peer system and it can work and it does most of the time (especially in a situation where it's next to impossible to deposit due to the law). Mostly, it seemed like this thread was about loaning a broke player who you know is broke a stake, and that's clearly a bad idea for the reasons I stated. If these guys were lending him money as a 24 hour site to site transfer, then fine, but that proves the inherent problem in the peer to peer system; that is, every scammer can have a good reason to get money several times if he has previously had a good rep.

You just never know how a guy is going to handle going broke. The guy I mentioned before was moving large amounts all the time between sites. Then he unraveled and did step one (borrowing) but never completed step two (repayment). His rep was good enough to have done it for well over a year, by paying off the most influential first until he couldn't afford to pay anyone any longer.

I think the idea is if you do an established player w/ a good rep a favor + lend him $ for one of those reasons, if the positions are reversed + you need someone to float you $ briefly, they are much more likely to extend you the same courtesy

This is spot on.

• Max was asked 6 days ago to provide additional transparency on his list of creditors and said he'd provide it later that day. We're still waiting. One person has already spoken up to say their amount wasn't on the list and was met with a rather lame excuse that Max wasn't sure of the exact amount and wanted to check first. Why no mention of a missing amount then? I thought you had a great memory?
  
  
• Max claims to have enough in his bank account to cover all these debts; yet only a vague allusion to unnamed people being paid in small amounts has so far been made, despite the thread being up for 12 days.
  
  
• Max has made another vague allusion that he will be meeting up with "ppl" and "they" will confirm itt when they receive money. Who are these people? Where are you meeting them? How much are they being paid? Why can't you name them now and tell us when the transactions will be if they're going to post in the thread themselves (therefore revealing their identity) when they've been paid?
  
  Don't you realise doing this would help your image immensely?
  
  
• Max has claimed that he is "In the process of getting funds online so I will be able to send money back to people". What is this 'process' exactly if you have 6 figures in your bank? If I owed someone 2k right now I could deposit it onto Stars or FTP or 888 or Paypal off my card and send it to them. Or I could bank wire it. It would take me 10 minutes. They would have it within 11 minutes. Why does it take weeks and months with you?
  
  Don't you realise paying even just 3 people 2k as soon as you read this and getting them to post in the thread about it would help your image immensely?
  
  
• Max has claimed that he continued to borrow money from at least 25 people whilst having enough funds at hand to be able to pay them all back, racking up a 6-figure debt in the process. This is so non-sensical that it can only mean one of two things: 1) Max is an idiot or 2) Max is lying.
  
  Occam's razor would suggest that number 2 is correct. My own dealings with Max would suggest that number 2 is correct. I've never doubted that Max is anything other than an intelligent individual, but I know that both I and several others have long suspected that Max is a chronic liar when it comes to the subject of repayment of money. He will say and do anything to buy himself more time. Months upon months of time. Why would you need time if you have the money at hand?
  
  
• Max has apologised in this thread for lying to people in order to "cover up what he did", but has never actually said what it is he "did". Why is he apologising if all he ever did was borrow money from people that he could afford to pay back? Borrowing with the intent to pay back is not a crime. It's unorganized and disrespectful when it takes this long, but it's hardly something to feel "shameful" about, especially if you have expectations that you can resolve it.
  
  
• Several people in this thread have mentioned Max approaching them and asking for money out of the blue, some as soon as a day before the thread was put up, some who hadn't spoken to him for a long time, some who hardly knew him, for amounts as large as $10k. Does this behavior strike people as someone who had good liquidity, or as someone who had exhausted every other option available to them and was desperate?

I wasn't going to bother getting too involved in this thread as I was paid back my relatively small debt before the thread was put up, after several months of chasing Max up about it. But the thread has gone needlessly off topic in the past few days, nothing is happening, I'm friends with several people caught up in this and I'm seeing the same rhetoric I'm used to from Max over and over again.

Max - I fully expect you to be pissed at me after this post and I sincerely hope that you are; it may give you some motivation. If you have any interest in retaining a modicum of respect for yourself in all this then you should be the pro-active poster in this thread, not other people. You need to cut the bull and come clean about everything. It'll work out best for you in the long run. Any lie or mistruth that is uncovered and any further delay from here on out is only going to damage your reputation further.

Cut the vague references to maybe having paid some people some money, provide transparency on your list, provide some sort of plan as to how you are going to pay people back and then actually pay people back. Everyone. All the way.

When you achieve all that I'll be the first person in the thread to hold my hands up and congratulate you.

i agree with you l67c. this is par for the course for this situation, just a bunch of other lies and false promises

bump

has anyone actually gotten paid a piece?

seems like max is making false promises again to gain some time.

didn't he want to start paying people on monday?

looks like this is not going anywhere...

nope, he promised in private chat on fb, that he will start paying people this week and show all that he isn't a scammer. obv just empty words again.

Was kind of hoping this would be the first guy dragged through NVG that made good.

this is why my policy is 5% vig, you send first. any xfers. stops people from asking in the first place.

Yep, this is why you've never been scammed.

Also probably why there were zero British players on the rail when you made a WSOP final table.

The Brits always seemed to be famously boisterous rails. I thout

such a dumb comment.

It's not like im best buds with the boys that like to drink alcohol out of their shoes whilst watching live poker.

im super disappointed people i talk to about 0-5 times per year don't turn up en masse to watch me play poker when they have no financial interest.

The send first policy is fine and smart to protect yourself from being ripped off, tho once you've done a lot of business and establish a very trusting friendship w/ certain poker players don't think it's always necessary.

The 5% vig regardless of circumstances is just being greedy tho imo, unless you have to send w/ a method that is inconvenient to you or on a site where cash-outs are slow and everyone is charging similar fees. Just say you never do x-fers if you don't want to get mixed up in that type of arrangement, no need to say, "I won't transfer unless I'm both 100% sure I can't get scammed and you pay me an exorbitant fee". Especially if it's someone you're friends w/ asking. I suppose from a business standpt it makes some sense tho.

But this is another derail of thread, so to get things back on topic:

Max, you said many days ago you had the $ to pay people back and we're going to start paying people this week, you have not returned to the thread since and no one has been paid yet, what exactly is going on here?

I suspect it's a matter of "I have some $ on this poker site, and once I'm able to run it up I can start paying people off." And as is the case w/ the $250k+ he's lost this year tracked on russian ptr in online cash games just on his sn's that people know about, he's failed to do so once again.

imo people who borrow $ w/ false promises about when and their ability to pay people back are just about as morally bankrupt as people who go around robbing people on the street. The only difference that when the pickpocket gets caught he goes to jail and has a criminal record that will follow him the rest of his life, whereas nothing happens when someone like Max deadbeats on a loan he got by lying and scamming.

I don't get the delay. He said he paid back small amounts to some people but I haven't received anything yet. He also don't need to get money online to pay me back. All it takes is to log into his bank account and make the transaction. That can't be that hard. So his posts were probably just another smoke screen to provide some sense of security and giving him some time.

Pretty sure the way it works is they need to take care of themselves first. Not like "I need food" first, but more like pay the $1200 car payment on the beamer first. Remember Dutch Boyd close to final tabling the wsop ME, and said he'd pay Pokerspot player debts, but it was only if he took 1st place. The 6-figs he cashed wasn't good enough to pay ANY amount back to the players. Oh wait... he just hit for $300K a few months ago... MS Sunshine's iPhone? No red badges by the phone or instant message icons.

Haven't heard anything since Max said he would start his payment plan last weekend.