So very disappointing to see you post this. Surely you realize you are looked up to and when you speak people listen. You didnt exactly give multi accounting your consent, but why post anything even mildly condoning it? We aren't talking about someone playing on someone else's account occasionally while they are bored or something. This is extremely deliberate and malicious multi accounting being used to squeeze out every cent available, from already winning players.

so agree with this, *** huds

That's a ridiculous thing to say. How can the sites be responsible for other players only wanting to play games where they think they have a decent edge? Thats just obviously what will happen when a bunch of intelligent, greedy people start to get good at poker. I'm not defending it but the sites are certainly not responsible for this behaviour of the players. You look like you are essentially saying - well if you can't get HU action then of course you have to multi-account. And this is essentially the crux of the whole problem the way I see it.

I just think the situation now is pretty unfair to someone like me who has always had the same account on Stars/FTP the whole time. I have notes and reads on basically all my regular opponents (not from mining but from years of playing with them). Then I have to just watch new account after new account show up these days. I even asked some new Thai account the other day what they had changed from and they answered 'no i am real thai person lulz :P'. I don't know why people think this sort of scummy behaviour is OK. It puts me in a situation where I am at a disadvantage to them and the only way to level it is to start multi-accounting myself and risk getting my funds confiscated while crapping on the integrity of the games.

Stars should be more responsible for this. It has to be so easy to make a new account if so many people are doing it. It seems to me like they should have better systems in place to flag up new multi-accounts at high stakes. Its not really necessary to police the whole of mid-stakes and below because the player pools are so big that the edge gained is not in the same league imo. If a new account starts firing up 4-9 tables of 5/10+ and people email Stars to complain they suspect a multi-account that should be enough to start up some sort of enquiry. When this happened with the Gordylamb account Stars farted around for so long that he got to cash out all the cheese and now just carries on playing on all his other accounts with money sucked out of the poker economy that I play in because he broke the TOS of the site and the sites need to be more responsible for this.

I would urge anyone who plays in these games to email Stars support@pokerstars.com and ask them to do something about this - make them aware of this thread. I'm going to fire off an email today.

Stars have recently tried to improve the enviroment at HS, I don't know if it's made any difference yet but it's a start. If people keep applying pressure on them and other sites to take multi accounting seriously, especially HS guys who I feel will be taken more seriously, then maybe they will start cracking down.

Not really, since I'm not a corporate lawyer. I just find the 'dishonest lawyer' joke to be so baseless and not particularly witty.

Sure it is disappointing that Durr does not get that breaking the rules and cheating is always bad for the game and players as well as being a barrier to legalised poker but it has the redeeming feature that his comments show just how widespread, standard and routine such cheating is.

When a big name basically admits it is happening but from the lofty heights of a skill level that means he cares not who he is giving action to says it does not bother him compared to the collusion it allows he has a point, its a bad one for those who care about being deceived about who they play when Durr cares not but it is true that collusion is worse.

Choice? Players including you don't have the right to get action. And it does not justify cheating. There have been plenty of ringgame action and if playing is his and yours only concern ipoker or taking on the best players are an option. So is learning new games or playing lower. Its supposed to be fair system for everyone. Hopefully Pokerstars can find the cheaters and seize some balances to make the risk for multiaccounting much higher.

I did ask you some question in HSPLO that you are probably dodging. There is plenty of games on Pokerstars so your reason to stay away from your main account there (seating HU and playing 6m) seems very weak imo.

Think you should add durrrr to that list.

He should be a rep for FTP and the rules there. Do people think he have his own skeletons after BFI (playing on China/ Canada or Macau accounts) since he takes that standpoint?

95% would do it if they know they can win tons of money. Those who say they wont are FOS

he's honest and knows what he's talking about.
problem with that? lol you. lol nvg. lol humanity.

was going to say that I thought live games were farrrr shadier than online games, esp if not in a casino. I mean the chance you get cheated and the chance you cant do anything about it are far higher

it seems to me the problem of multiaccounting is a matter of technicality--it is unethical because it breaks the rules (bring on the flame). Make it legal and everyone is on equal ground, in which case what is the problem? Imo sweating someone results in a similar change in equity as well, but this is unpreventable. Same logic applies for whether huds should be allowed etc (except no one considers them unethical)

As for colluding, cheating etc I think the sites actually do do a decent job at preventing this...

Pretty simple. In order for gambling to be legitimate it needs to be voluntary. Lying to get action that your opponent does not want to give is fraudulent.

Losing players go broke and stop playing or get sick of losing and stop playing

Winning players are always at the tables and people will rail them

This would be a disaster as it would play into the hands of all the people trying to get it banned

Especially as UP is the first. This would be a disaster for the future of online poker in the US

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ansky

So very disappointing to see you post this. Surely you realize you are looked up to and when you speak people listen. You didnt exactly give multi accounting your consent, but why post anything even mildly condoning it? We aren't talking about someone playing on someone else's account occasionally while they are bored or something. This is extremely deliberate and malicious multi accounting being used to squeeze out every cent available, from already winning players.

Very good post Ansky.

They are (mostly) not playing on different accounts vs new people. As Ansky say its deliberate multi accounting. These people clearly play people they mostly have lots history with, often spanning over a few years.



Jungle: your basically proposing that people can change screen names if they wish? I agree that put people on more equal ground compared to today's situation if that's your point.

The problem right now is that people are not on equal ground and that people are cheating by breaking the rules to gain an edge while getting away with it, and should be stopped unless the site change the rules (imo). If multiaccounting was legal it would not be a problem but this is simply not the case. I do think Pokerstars do a poor job at stopping multiaccounting in the HSPLO games since boobysmiles/ugotbanana started to change accounts. And its been especially bad after black friday. Ive no idea how much multi accounting / cheating it have been in the online NLHE games since I don't play them myself, besides what Ive read on 2p2 (Girah etc).

Eh, didn't you multi account with your best friends Girah and Haseeb and have to forfeit some 1st place prize or something along those lines?

Why are durrr and jungle even mentioning live poker shadiness? Its not relevant at all to high stakes multi accounting.

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Saying there is plenty of ring game action, is fine if you want to play ring games. What i am saying is if you want to get action at $10/$20+ on Stars HU, you will probably have to consider multi-accounting as an option.

The reason i didn't answer your question in a previous thread is that i'm not going to point the finger at anyone, its not my job. I think most people who have been around highstakes online poker for as long as I have, could mention a bunch of people that have multi-accounted, but like me they keep the info to themselves.

Why would you keep the Info to yourself?? Should you not expose them (who are multi-accounting) and possibly stop other players from losing money to them??

Mostly because they trusted me with the info at the time, so i'm not going to break that trust. I don't know tons of people, just a few. Some of them lost on extra accounts or just don't play much anymore. I don't know as much about the games in the last year or so, as i don't travel the tourney circuit anymore.

Another thing that should be considered. Most players think multi accounting is ok when a huge whale who plays 400/800 wants to change his ID, but is scummy when a 25/50 reg just wants to find action. Seems like everyone wants to stop the odd pro that does it, but its fine when a fish does it.

Way more money has come into the poker economy through multi accounting, than has been taken out of it by a mile.

If this is just a HU issue then maybe the sites should turn all HU tables into anonymous tables...

it's about intent and harm done. The fish who does it just wants to not be embarrassed by big losses being posted and the effect is positive for the entire poker economy. The pro who does it is doing it purely for the money and the effect is -ev on the entire poker economy apart from the person multi-accounting. Seriously anyone comparing the two (ethically, obviously both are against the letter of the rules) have some pretty serious logic problems.

I don't see how multi accounting can be considered to be an angle. Angling is doing something unethical to gain an advantage without technically breaking any rules. Multi accounting is very clearly against the rules, so to multi account in order to gain an advantage is clearly cheating.

There really is no live equivalent to multi accounting. I can sort of see comparing it to a hustle like pretending to be drunk or worse at a game than someone really is, etc. Its still not the same though, because in one case it is very clearly banned.

I wouldn't call it cheating. I mean you are breaking the rules of the poker site but not of the game of poker itself. But it is akin to angleshooting. You have all the info and a history with your opponent but your opponent believes you are a newcomer. So you definitely have a giant edge. Reminds me of the hand on The Big Game where Tony G went all in with AK, Hellmuth believed him and called with AJ.