A couple years ago I was in Vegas in December.there was a team of about 10 euros playing the Aria rock 5/5 game. One of them was actually social fun drank etc the rest were bots. And I'm sure a couple of them were colluding.

Mind you there were generally only 2 tables of this game so it really poisoned the pool. I was planning on staying until a couple days before Christmas but they mentioned they'd be there until the 27th. Ended up cutting the trip short and going to LA for a couple of days instead.

Never saw any of their again either on any future trips.

I've made so much money off of poker and sports betting bonuses in my life.

The newer the sites are/newer the market is they better the bonuses.

No doubt some are worthless and basically false advertising/predatory but over the years there has been a lot of great stuff out there often designed by people who didn't understand math.

yeah I mean I started my bankroll essentially hunting deposit bonuses and started from a promo where they just give you 60$ to start with, deposited exactly 0$

wouldn’t call those predatory at all

You think he is acting ?

I like your last point..... so long as the conversation takes place between hands..... not during play of a given hand.

i know exactly the crew you are talking about , played twice and figured out they had two to the table at least most times, they would always go to pattiserie (the 24 hour bake/deli after sessions) and then i would recognize them at the table when i played the lower games (some played there as well).

This was either 2018 or 2019.
It was a pretty disgusting group.

What about the time Shawn Shiekhan got convicted of raping a 17 year old? Does that count?

Most predatory I have seen was pokerstars ponzu scheme.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanv...h=211c6ad14f66

I think there is a huge distinction to be made here. HUGE.

Nothing should even be said about a players history during a hand. Ever. That is clearly wrong.

However, outside a specific hand, why is wrong for two people to talk about the play history of other players?

It is no different than two players discussing a hand after the fact. Players learn through social communications.

I will fully admit that I have often educated noobies about the nits at action tables. Always between hands, so no cheating. It is in my best interest to do so.

The nit and myself are after the noobies money. If I can help the noob not give it to the nit, it will be there later for me to take it.

Why should I not act on my best interest?

It’s a grey area for sure and it’s on a scale for how bad it is..

What you did was standard. However it’s definitely predatory.

Also acting on your own best interest instead of protecting the game is short sided. The nit bleeds away and you crack the noob. The nit doesn’t come back and the game doesn’t go next time. So now when the noob goes to sit he can’t bc there’s no 2-5 running and instead blasts off in the pits.

I too would love a world w no nits (other than me of course) but I realize wo the nits a lot of these games don’t go.

In general, you should not act in your best interest if in doing so you receive only marginal gains while someone else suffers. The question of what constitutes marginal or even real gains, and someone else's suffering, and thus what levels of gain and suffering can justify acting in your best interest are hotly contested within ethical philosophy.

Specific to your post, the example of the cardrunners lot sharing hand histories and datamining isildur to gain an edge just about crosses that line, more on the basis of it going against TOS than anything else; in the case of trying to educate a fish so that he loses slower to the other pros, well, that's something that can benefit him as well as causing vague suffering on the part of the other pros from receiving more EV, but you're also hurting your own bottom line a bit because he could give you less EV too, but overall it's a good thing to do because maybe he gambles more with you than the other pros, and the suffering the other pros have is really too vague to be worth considering, so I'm all for it.

You have it completely backwards.

Protecting whales from nits is in the best interest of the game. Whales drive the poker economy far more than nits. Making them want to come back is far more important than getting nits to come back (because nits are coming back anyway).

1. There was absolutely nothing in my post about sharing hand histories or data mining about Isildor. I have no real opinion on that.

2. As for helping noobies against other pros (mostly nits), I am not hurt because my range is not as predictable as a nits range is. I am bluffing enough that folding to my raises might be a mistake. That is sort of my point. I am willing to make adjustments to my play (often big adjustments), so helping new players play against other players who do not adjust their play (nits), benefits me as well as the new players at the expense of the nits.

It’s not an either or thing…

All players deserve this respect.

Obviously whales are MORE important where did I saw they weren’t?

I was trying to say everyone knows to protect the whales but it’s still predatory to ruin a nits action. It’s predatory and accepted and most people take it a step further and advocate for it. Which means it’s one of the “most predatory” things in poker even though we all kinda agree it’s part of the game and are in favor of getting rid of nits.

Sounds delicious

Nit regs deserve to get called out. Mostly away from the table, but a calculated comment about an antisocial nit reg when he 3bets me "well I know you always have it when you 3b so Ill just fold" that the recs might pick up on is also warranted.

Exactly!

I remember a story from a long time ago, maybe from "Poker Wisdom of a Champion.". I'll retell it the best I can:

Once upon a time in a smoky, dimly lit poker room, there was a legendary poker player known for his skill and ability to read his opponents. He regularly played with a wealthy businessman who loved the thrill of poker but lacked the necessary skills.

Over the course of many nights, the skilled player consistently outplayed the wealthy businessman, winning large sums of money. The businessman, unable to accept his losses, hatched a desperate plan to rob the skilled player.

One day, as the two were parting ways after another poker session, the businessman revealed his intention to rob the skilled player. Instead of reacting with fear or anger, the skilled player calmly looked at the businessman and said, "I hope you're not going to let this get in the way of our playing poker?"

the most predatory thing i saw was a player who got AA and got it all in against KK preflop. like comeon you no you have a huge advantage to win why not fold the aces and play something like 27o and play the player by bluffing 3 streets postflop.

Lol half the NVG posters would agree with you

Sounds like maybe a young child was logging on to daddy's computer while he was at work.

This simply isn't true in the vast majority of cases. We'd have far better games and more recs if we had less nits(and I mean that in all senses of the word not just playing tight) poisoning the game. When people play in the pit bc playing poker isn't fun it's mainly because of the parasites.

The exceptions can be in situations where you need seat fillers so to speak. So for example a bigger game is running and there is a small player pool for it then yes a few nits to fill the game up can help it go or stay going.

Nothing is 100 percent so yea maybe sometimes at 3am the last 2/5 is 5 handed and gonna break but a couple nits show up and it goes for another couple hours. But overall they're a net negative for poker.

I think it's fine when done by someone giving action.
I've had times in vpiping 30-35 percent and someone playing 95 percent of the hands will bust my balls if i fold a few hands in a row. Which is fair and he has that right.

But I've also had times where someone vpiping something absurd like 5-10 percent who will make a comment to a fun player about not paying me off or whatever and I'll needle that guy the rest of the night. Those guys serve no purpose and you shouldn't be commenting on someone giving a lot more action than you.

Even more so when I'm 8 drinks in with fun players and 10 vpip is sitting there drinking green tea or milk.

taking a jackpot drop and then using it for promotions that will only be available when the great majority of players can't/won't be there. At least a bad beat jackpot is fair.