https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...-omaha-617292/

Stop trying to make this terrible idea that nobody wants happen. It's never going to happen.

I mean, I'm sorry that somebody hit their flush on the river against you, but eliminating pre-flop selection, draws and semi-bluffs from poker is not going to be a popular change.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of why people wager money on poker games.

worst idea for poker ever.

lol

since were on the topic, lets also eliminate all of the draw 2, draw 4, wild, skip and reverse cards in uno.

PLO is good only when the table is loose enough; other than that, there is a tight open, 3-bet with good aces (and up to a likely 4-bet, with good aces) and some double suited connected cards. That is the zoom work day and maybe the future of it. It is so much about aces that nlh starts to look good, although more postflop play in plo, and even multiway pots.

No preflop? 6-handed? 10-handed? Looks horrible to me. But what kind of preflop, that is your choise, although you have chosen nlh.

It seems other digital card games have grown in popularity, and there might be some changes in the poker future. I have no top choise at this time.

1. Don't think your version makes the game more skill based.
2. More skill based variants of poker isn't good as the fish never even have a gambling chance of winning which takes away their fun which is just not good.

Bad idea to add more skill.

If you change the game one way or the other it would be better to add more luck.

There was not a single year round No-limit Hold 'em game in Vegas for maybe 15 years before the TV/Internet boom brought tons of new and unskilled players to the game. Only during the WSOP did NLH run every day.

... a lone bad player playing with decent players simply had too hard a time having a winning week.

Years after the boom we see NLH cash games dying on the Internet and severely toughening in the casino at higher limits.

Hey op, go play chess.

OP, I've thought through your ideas and here are my thoughts:

First, you seem to have a different definition of, "skill," than others in this thread. In general, the more complex the game is the more skill is involved. Having say, 10 different strategic options to choose from in a game is harder and requires more skill than having 2 different strategic options to choose from.

The way NL hold em is set up now....

You get 2 cards
Round of betting
Flop
Round of betting
Turn
Round of betting
River
Round of betting

You have 4 major decision points throughout the hand, and no decision is that easy because you have to factor in what you have, what your opponent could have, and what cards could come. Your odds change with every card that comes and you have to figure out how your % to win the hand changes as this happens - you have to adjust your bet sizing, your strategy, your plan etc. constantly throughout the hand. You have to factor in pot odds, implied odds, fold equity, etc. to make the best decisions.

This requires a ton of skill - navigating all of your hands through these decision points profitably is really difficult with so much incomplete information to wade through.

This simplifies the game, thus making it less skillful. Not having to factor in that 93 off can make a flush or a straight some of the time makes the game less complex and easier to navigate. Or to use a more relevant example - if the board comes xxx we no longer have to factor in any hands that have Ax or Kx and the equity those types of hands have when making our decisions. It becomes a way simpler and easier game to solve - either someone has a flush or they don't.

This is the same idea - you are way oversimplifying the game. Now instead of 4 decision points we have to navigate, it's one simple decision where we are guaranteed to win if we go all-in on the flop with the best hand. That is remarkably easier to figure out, there's going to be very little skill edge in this format. You might as well not even bother with a turn or a river in this format as those cards are barely relevant at all to your decision on the flop.

What you seem to be doing is mixing up the words, "skill," and, "variance." What you're trying to do is make poker a game with less variance, i.e. eliminate future cards from screwing up your hand as much as possible so when you go all-in with the best hand, you are much more likely to win and much less likely to get sucked out on. And I hope I've shown you that just because you reduce the variance in a game does not necessarily mean you are increasing the skill required to play the game.

NL Hold em poker is already about all of these things, there's just too much of a "gambling," or, "variance," element for you to feel comfortable playing. And there's nothing wrong with that, high variance gambling games aren't for everybody.

And fwiw, in its current format the action after the river already incorporates the element of poker you're looking for - there are no more cards to come. If someone goes all-in, they either have the best hand or they don't and you are guaranteed to win if you showdown the best hand. Maybe deep stack hold em is more your thing? Where there are a lot fewer all-ins before the river? It's by far the most skill-based version of the game.

I hope this helps.

- Holdem where you have to use both your hole cards

- An all in ends in current street (if preflop, only the flop is showed)

----

Make it happen

I just think you should get to see everyones cards the whole time. Like wtf who cares? Ship it.

OP go play Badugi

This variant is known as Greek hold em.

On some level I admire the OP's self-confidence in continuing to push for an idea that literally nobody in his target market thinks makes any sense or would be anything other than horrible in practice.

Wrong, that's the game where you don't pay any taxes after you won.

If any change should be made to some NL tables, it should be a 3rd blind, not limiting luck.

I can't believe NVG let this part go without further comment, lol. This says it all.

Op is on a downswing.

Use both holde cards. An all in player plays only current street. If the all in is preflop, only the flop is showed.


Think about this: Why would you give the losing hand more equity when all in?

Party is over, no more gambling. Welcome the New Skill game of Poker, when you actually have to use your brains to play.

It will be created soon or later, it is inevitable.

Razz is notoriously skill-based too. There's no wonder why it has lost popularity.

This subgame is entirely solved for heads up 100BB. A version of this where the game stops on the flop is used as a skill test for different flavors of CFR for computer scientists working on AI.

Party is over indeed.