Business Move:

Not sure of what type of legal entity 2+2 is, but any sort of operating or partnership agreement would likely provide a contractual mechanism for expelling DS. DS has the potential to place the 2 + 2 Empiremaker in jeopardy. I would lay 3 to 1 that if there is solid legal footing upon which to boot out DS, 4 out of 5 business consultants would recommend ousting him if long term growth is what 2 + 2 is after.

And I really don't think that DS is a bad guy ... at all. This is business.

WHOAH.

bbv4l is NOTHING like nwp. Even for an offtopic forum at its laxest under either dids or my reign, we NEVER tolerated any kind of bigotry or hatred or trolls or porn or inline nudity like NWP does. I'm surprised that you would say that.

edit: ok read the rest of the thread, dead horse(porn) has been beaten enough.

Mason,

I believe I can say with confidence, that the general consensus is that it is unfortunate and wrong that a innocent party was involved in this and possibly hurt by malicious and cruel content posted on the net. You have also made your point very clear that this is YOUR site and you do have the right to run it however you see fit. No one will argue that point.

The problem is that this situation has become more than just gossip and innuendo posted online. The effects have carried over into the "real world". Other sites, bloggers, and media outlets have taken notice.

The only issue you seem to have addressed in detail are your thoughts and beliefs about NWP and what it stands for.

There some important and hard questions that you have not answered and we both know until you do, this situation will not go away.

David chose to involve himself with a girl who was known in the poker world to have a checkered past (to say the least). He paid no mind to the many that took objection to this relationship. To many he seemed to rejoice in the attention that it brought him. Even to the most neutral outsider, the appearance of trading money for pictures of sexual content and other dealings that went on, reflect poorly on David. Especially considering these offers were being made to a girl who in no way, shape, or form has the mental capacity or maturity to handle the situation rationally.

You have also failed to address the veiled threats that David has issued to some of the involved parties. I find it very disturbing his threat of bodily harm to Brandi and his implication that suicide would be the only way for her to escape his wrath. Letters sent to Micon, Druff and others stating threats of harm to themselves and to their love ones were posted online as well. I know in the state of Nevada, these direct specific threats constitute a crime.

If you want this issue to go away, may I kindly suggest sir that you discuss the real issues that have alarmed many in the poker world, rather than use NWP as a scapegoat to hide behind.

HP

the reason I came here was to read about the AP superuser scandal. Didn't find anything on it, but found so much more.

Something Mason posted in the “banning” thread didn’t resonate with me very well, so upon further review, I’m calling Mason out on it.

Mason wrote: “Phillips also made personal attacks towards one of our volunteer moderators.” From all I can determine, Paul’s “personal attack” consisted solely of “And this fellow dynasty pours fuel on the fire by boasting about all the people he's banned.”

That’s no personal attack, which instead might be “And this fellow dynasty is a prick for fueling the fire with his boasts about all the people he’s banned.”

Do you see the difference, Mason, between describing the conduct and describing the person? I don’t know whether your error is a misrecollection, a misdirection, or an outright lie. Given the time that’s passed since all this happened, I suppose any are possible. But your characterization of Paul's conduct here is flat wrong here unless I’m missing something. If I am, please articulate Paul’s “personal attack” on a mod to set the record straight. If not, please post an apology.

By the way, I did in fact misremember the underlying events. The reality of it is that Paul had promised to walk if any of his posts were deleted. Mat deleted a thread Paul had started, which included criticisms of the 2p2 interface as well as the above statement on dynasty. Mason asked Paul to apologize both publicly and privately. Paul rather predictably posted an ironic apology, so Mason banned him. Some wag started a poll about whether Paul should be banned, and after that ran 80-20 in favor of reinstatement, Mason did so – but given Paul’s initial promise, Paul was gone and gone for good by that time. Paul’s LJ describes all of this rather more colorfully, but I hesitate to link that here for fear Mason (or perhaps dynasty) will ban me for it – although that now may be inevitable no matter what.

I'll hold my breath for your response, Mason.

this needed a new thread?
c'mon.

Hooray. I figured out how to merge it into this thread.

Howard and everyone - We don't need 15 different threads talking about essentially the same topic.

Hmmm, it appears that after my post, the Open Letter To Mason From Dan Druff thread has dissapeared. I will copy my remarks from that thread, that are addressed to Mason.

Mason,

I believe I can say with confidence, that the general consensus is that it is unfortunate and wrong that a innocent party was involved in this and possibly hurt by malicious and cruel content posted on the net. You have also made your point very clear that this is YOUR site and you do have the right to run it however you see fit. No one will argue that point.

The problem is that this situation has become more than just gossip and innuendo posted online. The effects have carried over into the "real world". Other sites, bloggers, and media outlets have taken notice.

The only issue you seem to have addressed in detail are your thoughts and beliefs about NWP and what it stands for.

There some important and hard questions that you have not answered and we both know until you do, this situation will not go away.

David chose to involve himself with a girl who was known in the poker world to have a checkered past (to say the least). He paid no mind to the many that took objection to this relationship. To many he seemed to rejoice in the attention that it brought him. Even to the most neutral outsider, the appearance of trading money for pictures of sexual content and other dealings that went on, reflect poorly on David. Especially considering these offers were being made to a girl who in no way, shape, or form has the mental capacity or maturity to handle the situation rationally.

You have also failed to address the veiled threats that David has issued to some of the involved parties. I find it very disturbing his threat of bodily harm to Brandi and his implication that suicide would be the only way for her to escape his wrath. Letters sent to Micon, Druff and others stating threats of harm to themselves and to their love ones were posted online as well. I know in the state of Nevada, these direct specific threats constitute a crime.

If you want this issue to go away, may I kindly suggest sir that you discuss the real issues that have alarmed many in the poker world, rather than use NWP as a scapegoat to hide behind.

HP

If you want this issue to go away, may I kindly suggest sir that you discuss the real issues that have alarmed many in the poker world, rather than use NWP as a scapegoat to hide behind.

strong words from a "stranger." sounds like a veiled threat.

Sorry, thought this merged thread was Moron Bannings and I wanted to see who got it next.....my bad.

I think that was the title I'd intended for a new thread, and am happy to see that at least someone got the double meaning.

"moron banning." hahaha

i find it funny that you would rather focus on what label he is due to his post count instead of the actual post itself.

so the open letter to mason thread got deleted? wow.

No. If it was, this thread wouldn't have generated 170 responses already.

get over yourself.

I wish someone would hire gorgeous actors to have sex with my girlfriend. im too nice of a guy to dump her without a good reason

BPD needs a Borisweatsuedo.

Do you really think that statements likes this are helpful to your cause? Mason is merely taking control of his site, not 'policing the entirety of the internet.' He can do whatever the hell he wants with his site, just like the owners of NWP can (and do) whatever the hell they want with their site. If people want to post at either site, they have to follow certain rules. It is not a difficult concept, at least for most, to comprehend.

The hilarious thing here is that there is tons of 2+2 bashing (they cleverly refer to it as '4'. Get it, 2+2 = 4. Stellar wit.) at NWP, yet when it comes to getting banned from this site that is constantly reviled, they cry foul. If NWP so great, then stay there. Duh.

I need a linko to Boris, if you can shoot me a PM with the link!

Originally Posted by patstap View Post
If this were true, I'd have less of a problem with the bannings, but I don't believe it is.

Mason knew, or should have known, of Druff's involvement in NWP a long time ago. Where was his moral outrage at the "hate" then?

His newfound stand seems more to do with an attempt to punish Micon, through Druff, than ridding the internet of "hate" sites or ridding 2+2 of proponents of hate sites.

He's trying to punish them for what was posted about Sklansky (by Sklansky), not the immature, racist, sexist, hateful things have been going on there from the site's inception.

As owner of this site, that's his prerogative. But let's call a spade a spade.

Druff has been banned, not because of any 2+2 rule he broke or anything he posted at NWP, but simply because he's a part owner of the site.

Had they never mentioned the Sklansky debacle, Druff would still be here.

I'm not sure why you quoted me if you didn't intend on addressing any of my points.

I repeat, where was your moral outrage regarding NWP prior to the recent Sklansky/Brandi/Sue posts?

Wasn't NWP "clearly a place that is not only damaging to the poker industry in general, but to the community of poker players in particular" prior to these posts?

I applaud 2+2's stand against publishing questionably valuable poker strategy, accepting advertising from questionable sources or aligning with organizations you're not sure about.

But in this case you should admit the obvious. You're pissed at NWP for their involvement in this fiasco and one way of punishing them is to ban Druff.

Again, if NWP had never posted a word about Sklansky/Brandi/Sue, then Druff would still be welcome here.

Your current stand regarding them is based on their recent involvement in a very seedy situation regarding your colleague.

To suggest it's anything else is insulting and disingenuous.

patstap hits the nail on the head

Mason,
David Sklansky is the guy you should ban, and you know it!
NWP is not a hate-site, and you know it!
Dan Druff should not be banned, and you know it!
Get out of your Ivory Tower, you're losing your credibility!

You know nothing about me other than what I choose to make you think you know.

And I wish Mason had never handed me the hammer.

To feel the need to post anything that could remotely be construed as endorsing NWP, goes against every moral fiber in my being.