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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-24-2013, 08:03 PM   #176
boobies4me
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Just wanted to say I've read all the posts in the thread to this point and it seems to me that JY was insolvent and trying to help keep everything from crumbling apart too much by having CM pay off sheets because he didn't have the money to. If the money owed to sheets, as well as other debts, weren't able to be paid around the same time CM lost, it stands to reason CM wasn't going to get his money either and being freerolled. If that's the case then he doesn't have any responsibility to help the people who scammed him pay off some of their other debts.

Cliffs: Druff already nailed it.

Also, the guy coming in and posting that JY paid him trivially small amounts, as well as sheet saying $500 was paid, it just reinforces the fact that JY was insolvent and stalling.

Did anyone else also take note of the fact that JY said people would be lining up to come in here and vouch for him and all we get is some guy saying he got stalled on even being paid tiny amounts?
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:03 PM   #177
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Pay Jason and send him a fruit basket as an apology.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:05 PM   #178
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

At some point in the bookie/bettor relationship every losing player at some point asks himself, "what will happen if I tell this guy to **** off?"

If you are going to take action you have to be willing to convince your players by your actions that the answer to that question is, "eh, it's not worth it. I better pay up."

If you're taking action and somebody stiffs you and you either can't or won't put in work, you deserve what you've got- nothing. This ain't about right or wrong, arbitration, credibility, etc. If you have decided in your own mind what is right, the next step is to enforce your decision. It's about imposing your will and making somebody do something they don't want to do. Who is willing to do what the next guy won't?

If anybody ever finds me trying to settle a debt on the internet, by swaying the 'public' or whatever, just shoot me.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:06 PM   #179
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Also not 100% relevant but I remeber this JY guy in a thread a long time ago where he was going on about how great his life was because he had ran good and shipped a whopping $700k pre-taxed tourney cashes and was going to cruise through life doing anything he wanted. People told him not to read too much into small sample sizes live. He sounded amazingly naive and ignorant. Now there seems to be a decent chance he's down to the felt and all in on some restuarant in NY and decent chance of freerolling players on sportsbetting. Proof of an actual bookie would be helpful here.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:13 PM   #180
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Like I said before, the timeline of events is very important and should be the deciding factor in all of this.

If Jason took on Chris will still owing upwards of 20k of which he was slow paying/not paying at all, then it looks to me like a free roll situation. If not, then chris should pay.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:13 PM   #181
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I am going to bed for the night but I did look and I cant pull Skype conversations after 6 months. This happen over a year ago unfortunately. I would like to know how I got to 25k and how sheets got his account open in October way after your "boss" left.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #182
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Also what was your bosses name? Surely you have no issue saying it since he suppossedly screwed you
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #183
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As far as squaring up every week when someone breaks that contract and sets up payment as far I know that may be where you action stops but definitely no reason to assume your being free rolled. Things happen and that may be your indicator to stop any further action and look elsewhere. Though Jason may have taken longer then expected everyone thus far has said he has or intends to make right, this by no means at all is indication of a free roll. I understand why Chris would think this way and feel he's been free rolled it also seems as though he found a loophole. This is a pretty crazy situation and until official dates are posted there will be no resolution.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:15 PM   #184
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

We can continue on here Jason or I am open to private arbitration. Your call
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:19 PM   #185
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
We can continue on here Jason or I am open to private arbitration. Your call
isn't arbitration by far the most fair resolution to this? agree on people you both respect and have no personal ties to. present all the evidence you can and go with their judgement. end.

oh, and let us know what happened with it since you got us all interested in the first place
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:23 PM   #186
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poogs View Post
Like I said before, the timeline of events is very important and should be the deciding factor in all of this.

If Jason took on Chris will still owing upwards of 20k of which he was slow paying/not paying at all, then it looks to me like a free roll situation. If not, then chris should pay.
Maybe you should read the thread because Chris gave a timeline. But Jason said he was lying. No proofs.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:23 PM   #187
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
We can continue on here Jason or I am open to private arbitration. Your call
why wont you just answer the couple simple questions i asked you?

did we or did we not have that convo at wsop 2012?

i already said arbitration is fine because all of the facts are the facts.

and im not even the slightest bit worried about it.

there were high 6 figures exchanged between various people between the time chris lost this $ and things came to an end.

he was looking for any excuse not to pay...the way things ended the people that were owed were my responsibility as ive stated numerous times.

Most people would tell them to go f themselves i did not..i stated that i would cover everything without even being able to verify the figures from some of them.

the moneymaker owing me money was a completely separate issue, as it was from a different time period all together.

as sheets stated moneymaker paying off his debt would speed up the process in getting everyone else paid.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:24 PM   #188
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gostatego View Post
Would like to end with although it took Jason a little longer than I would have liked for him to pay me, he did make good on all of the balances we ever had. That is not how someone who is freerolling would act.

Josh
Paying small amounts slowly because you're insolvent to keep people at bay and try to buy time makes perfect sense when you're in the hole. Sure, he might owe 60k, but if he can collect this 15k and pay out 10% to everyone, they'll probably not out him for hopes of getting the other 90% of their money.

sheets sure would like the other $7500, and calling Jason a scammer to everyone isn't going to get him that money. He just had to hope Jason would go on a hot streak and be able to pay him back.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:25 PM   #189
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

there is a timeline

chris already admitted to losing the money back in march/april

sheets already has explained he won money in october/november

that leaves a gap of 6+ months...this was a year and a half ago
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:26 PM   #190
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
Paying small amounts slowly because you're insolvent to keep people at bay and try to buy time makes perfect sense when you're in the hole. Sure, he might owe 60k, but if he can collect this 15k and pay out 10% to everyone, they'll probably not out him for hopes of getting the other 90% of their money.

sheets sure would like the other $7500, and calling Jason a scammer to everyone isn't going to get him that money, he just had to hope Jason would go on a hot streak and be able to pay him back.
im fairly certain you have no idea what your talking about

i didnt lose any money to any of these people

they won it from someone else- that didnt pay in the end...

i vouched so im responsible

im sorry you dont understand that
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:30 PM   #191
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Chris claims a reputable forum member messages him on Skype asking about JY's situation bc JY owed him $18k. This is the initial basis for Chris not paying.

How about we get that guy in here, guys?

Would also help if JY could prove he made payments to bettors the week CM lost his money if possible.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:31 PM   #192
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If the book, whether it's just JY or JY is an agent for a boss (doesn't really matter), was solvent and paying out winners around the time CM lost then he should obviously be paying.

This should be relatively easy to prove.

Also, if JY can prove he paid his boss on CM's behalf that'd be helpful as well.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:41 PM   #193
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
there is a timeline

chris already admitted to losing the money back in march/april

sheets already has explained he won money in october/november

that leaves a gap of 6+ months...this was a year and a half ago
Chris also stated he was contacted by someone who was owed 18k in APRIL.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:54 PM   #194
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

I know a bunch of bookies personally that take big action and are 'agents' for sites like Wagershack, Bet123, Goingdeep2score, etc, I will see a few of them in a few to watch the Thursday night game, I will ask them why a players account would become inactive so fast after a big score (sheets situation), afaik it's because the 'agent' (young) did not have enough funds as an 'agent' to back up his players acion, I will find out for sure in a few and post.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:04 PM   #195
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski View Post
Irrelevant. This happened over a year ago.

Chris is saying that the day he went to pay he realized that JY was in $18k in debt to someone that was worried enough about it to be asking around.

If that's accurate then there is very good reason for CM to suspect he wasn't getting paid at settle-up day had he won.

JY is saying this isn't accurate, hence CM should pay.

The answer to this dilemma is probably found in the truthful timeline of these events.
What I meant was - is JY in credit when he takes into account those he owes and is owed from - not CM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:16 PM   #196
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

moneymaker's story is believable. JY sounds like a sketch-ball. Either post the absconding bookie's name or stfu JY.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:18 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
moneymaker's story is believable. JY sounds like a sketch-ball. Either post the absconding bookie's name or stfu JY.
Wow, pretty harsh don't you think???
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:19 PM   #198
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Seems like the "agent" was very poorly prepared and under funded for a while, but had complete intentions to pay people back and probably understands he put people in a bad spot by not being able to pay quickly. If CM pays what he owes it seems it will go towards the winning players.

Sheetsworld must be a real pro sportsbettor if after the first red flag of having to wait for his winnings the first time betting he just goes back for more.

I'm totally against paying others for debt that is owed to them from the same guy, but it seems like both parties would benefit from an agreed upon payment of that type. If Chris has a list of people who are owed why not agree upon a partial payment towards a few?
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:25 PM   #199
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
Wow, pretty harsh don't you think???
Not harsh at all. Some very pointed and pertinent questions have been posed in this thread and I'm not seeing JY provide any answers. On the other hand, it seems completely reasonable that Moneymaker suspected he was being conned.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:42 PM   #200
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
i didnt lose any money to any of these people


i vouched so im responsible

im sorry you dont understand that
sounds like you should be sorry that YOU dont understand that those two things are functionally the same.

you vouched, so you DID lose money to those people.

you're a random scammer and hes the guy who bluffed SAMMY ****ING FARAH to win the WSOP. go make a panini.
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