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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-08-2013, 02:47 AM   #1726
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Why doesn't Chris Moneybooker just bet offshore then? Couldn't he just send money to 5dimes/heritage or bookmaker and then make wagers and know he will collect when he wins? Or is it just convenient for him to do with a bookie b/c its all on credit? I don't really understand why anyone would use a local b/c there is always a chance you can get stiffed.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:58 AM   #1727
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

It is a titanic pain in the ass to fund or withdraw from most of these places. When talking 5 figure balances it is even more of a nightmare.

Postup shops are far from any kind of safe haven with regards to the protection of your money. I have multiple close friends who have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars from offshore books.

Add in the lack of a paper trail, and the fact you don't have to lay out money (regardless if you actually have it or not), and it is a very attractive option.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:03 AM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xalas View Post
It is tiring I can agree with you that it would be best to let this rather disappointing thread just die.
No literally, Im getting tired. you cant see it in my typing and edits? Have to sign off soon
..lol
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:45 AM   #1729
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
Oh, but it was perfectly fine to assume JY was freerolling/scamming Chris with no evidence. ok
The evidence was all that which was supplied in the thread. People having been owed money for ages while all his money was tied up in a restaurant and the same exact discussion that already has been had in this thread. My point was simply that given all of what was known ITT, it was sensible to believe both were free rolling each other. Dear god this one has run it's course. Place it in the history books as a degens classic though.
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:02 AM   #1730
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
You are still going to agree to installments even AFTER Chris said he would pay Jason????
Assani I am sorry but you are getting hosed.
I mean seriously Assani, WTF? Not only do you get stiffed for over a year over a ridiculously small amount of cash, now that JY apparently is getting the money in full, you still allow a payment plan, ensuring he plays the float even longer? If that payment plan doesn't end in 3 months max, this is just crazy.

At some point, you really deserve some of this, quite frankly. If you act like a floor mat, people are going to walk all over you.

--PP
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:06 AM   #1731
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Freedom View Post
Mods,

Not sure about others, but, I vote that we let this dog die and close/lock this thread.......

Parties involved seemed satisfied. IMO Move on to another juicy NVG topic...

P.S. just realized the exception to this would be for unpaid parties (Sheets, Assani etc) post when they get paid back...
No. Firstly, it's been "resolved" once before, and we know how that ended... Secondly, as you noted, people have still not received the cash. Assani has apparently agreed to a payment plan, as well! So this could drag on for many, many months.

What happens when one of those checks bounces? Or if another mystery client appears with an unpaid debt?

But agree there is little left of value here unless something new emerges.

--PP
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:39 AM   #1732
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraguePoker View Post
I mean seriously Assani, WTF? Not only do you get stiffed for over a year over a ridiculously small amount of cash, now that JY apparently is getting the money in full, you still allow a payment plan, ensuring he plays the float even longer? If that payment plan doesn't end in 3 months max, this is just crazy.

At some point, you really deserve some of this, quite frankly. If you act like a floor mat, people are going to walk all over you.

--PP
Yeah I mean Assani really seems like a stand up guy but I have to agree with your premise here PP.

C'mon Assani, there is no way in hell you should even be agreeing to a "payment plan" after Chris stated that he now believes Jason(That's a whole other discussion)and he will be paying him.

Again, I give props to Jason who in a matter of days has 1)obv paid bundy to come on here and support him unconditionally 2)put together some kind of "proof" to flip flop Chris yet again and 3)continue to stall Assani and not get any flak from it.

Well done Jason, well done.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:41 AM   #1733
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
Chris, JY texted me and said he already sent the checks and that he would rather pay me in installments as we had outlined than have you pay for him. So I guess don't pay me(so long as these payments from him come as expected).
would be pretty hilarious if the other guy has to keep his $500 per year installments also.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:42 AM   #1734
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUMike1999 View Post
Yeah I mean Assani really seems like a stand up guy but I have to agree with your premise here PP.

C'mon Assani, there is no way in hell you should even be agreeing to a "payment plan" after Chris stated that he now believes Jason(That's a whole other discussion)and he will be paying him.

Again, I give props to Jason who in a matter of days has 1)obv paid bundy to come on here and support him unconditionally 2)put together some kind of "proof" to flip flop Chris yet again and 3)continue to stall Assani and not get any flak from it.

Well done Jason, well done.
JY haters gonna keep hating I suppose
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:49 AM   #1735
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by B00T View Post
Sorry it took me so long to post in the thread as a follow up.

Obviously Chris feels he was supplied sufficient information to decide to pay JY, so what I wanted to say means next to nothing at this point.

I went in to visit Jason at his place Tuesday afternoon. He showed me some texts from his phone from the supposed "boss", along with dates corroborating his chain of events. I saw a site mentioned by name, and JY asking him why the site was down at random times, and other small tidbits which would clearly show that there was someone else pulling the strings. I saw plenty of std excuses from the "boss" when JY questioned some settling. "I have a funeral out of town" amongst others, which are typical run of the mill excuses when someone is avoiding someone.

Having no real incentive to take JY's side, I believe he was telling the truth and was not freerolling here. To be transparent, I've known Jason as we went to high school together. We were never close, infact at least one of my friends got in a fistfight with him on more than one occasion.

I don't play poker, nor am in any of the pro players circles, but I have done business with a couple and have a rock solid rep in the sports betting section here. I know the whole situation was kinda shady, but I am satisfied with what I saw to believe JY did nothing in the wrong. Just glad the situation was resolved for all parties.
Thanks for taking the time to do this and sharing your opinion.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:51 AM   #1736
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Assani if JY is receiving the money in full from Chris, you shouldn't accept payment in installments although it's obviously better than nothing
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:13 AM   #1737
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

This thread is another in a long line of twoplustwo NVG threads wherein the majority of the posters demonstrate that they are absolutely lost when it comes to sportsbetting, and, credit in the gambling business in general (including subjects such as "cash on hand", "money xfers", "agents", "settle figures", etc).

Special moron credit awarded to the "How stupid are people to think they can bet at -110 and win" guy, but indeed, the majority of posters in these threads are and always will be clueless.
They will never be in a position of dealing with larger sums of money, larger bets, etc.

There is nothing wrong with having a small bankroll - perhaps this is a fun hobby, or they are building a br, or whatever.

But there is something wrong with people lacking any sort of practical knowledge of a subject - and in most cases not even understanding the basics - pontificating and making judgements when in actuality they are totally lost and hopelessly clueless.

Someone asked somewhere in this thread "Why do people who have no idea what they're talking about feel a need to post?"

The answer is: "Because 90% of the posts on this site (and on the net in general) would not exist".

Make that figure 98% for NVG.

Last edited by Stinky Johnson; 11-08-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:20 AM   #1738
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Johnson View Post
This thread is another in a long line of twoplustwo NVG threads wherein the majority of the posters demonstrate that they are absolutely lost when it comes to sportsbetting, and, credit in the gambling business in general (including subjects such as "cash on hand", "money xfers", "agents", "settle figures", etc).

Special moron credit awarded to the "How stupid are some people to think they can bet at -110 and win" guy, but indeed, the majority of posters in these threads are and always will be clueless.
They will never be in a position of dealing with larger sums of money, larger bets, etc.

There is nothing wrong with having a small bankroll - perhaps this is a fun hobby, or they are building a br, or whatever.

But there is something wrong with people lacking any sort of practical knowledge of a subject pontificating and making judgements when in actuality they are totally lost and hopelessly clueless.

Someone asked somewhere in this thread "Why do people who have no idea what they're talking about feel a need to post?"

The answer is: "Because 90% of the posts on this site (and on the net in general) would not exist".

Make that figure 98% for NVG.
Do you think there is any chance that those posters (that is the father and son) in the thread that you brought up will get their money or prizes from MM's company?
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:16 AM   #1739
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
JY's probably in a better position to assume whether MM would have shrugged it off or not - by the mere fact that MM has still not paid over a period of 18 months despite communications between the two if we go by MM's OP suggests to me that it would have been a forlorn act to hand the financial information to him a week or month prior.
That's irrelevant. It would still have been the right move then he could have come on here and said MM owes him, he's given him proof and he's still not paying. I expect he would have taken a lot less flack that way.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:31 AM   #1740
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 46&2 View Post
More resembles a stupid thread with some post count jockies
Funny. This coming from a guy who posts this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 46&2 View Post
..
AND then you double post twice instead of editing your post for some stupid reason:

Post #1719 and #1720
Pst # 1722 and #1723

All four of these posts are you, so out of 5 consecutive posts, you are 4 of them. What a dumb hypocrite you are.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:47 AM   #1741
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Something tells me jy owes alot more then a few people money. Payment plan for 2 grand when mm is giving u 20k, really? There was no bookie. This is a freeroll that turned into blackmail
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:32 PM   #1742
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 46&2 View Post
Stop trying to extort money from MM... wtf? Assanis' business is with Jason Young... wtf with the beggar pests?

Start another thread if Assani doesn't get paid FCOL

Not trying to be a dick Assani, but using this thread to get money from a person ( increasingly more obv. because of his celebrity) that your wager had nothing to do with is getting old imo.


Did you completely miss the part where JY and I had come up with a solution but then Chris posted this:



Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Spent the last three days talking to all parties involved including the one who never posted. I was sent information and I am satisfied I was not freerolled. I apologize to jason and am paying the money out as directed by him. This thread had many turns and drama. I really felt like I was protecting myself for once and I was proven to be incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NLSoldier View Post
does this mean paying it to assani, sheets, etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
I am paying out to people jason owes. We have agreed how the money is to be paid.

What part of my posts since those 3 posts did you think were "using this thread to get money from a person (increasingly more obv. because of his celebrity) that your wager had nothing to do with"? Furthermore, how do you want me to respond to those posts?

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 11-08-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:33 PM   #1743
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by loubrown View Post
Something tells me jy owes alot more then a few people money. Payment plan for 2 grand when mm is giving u 20k, really? There was no bookie. This is a freeroll that turned into blackmail
Confirmed.


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Old 11-08-2013, 12:37 PM   #1744
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 46&2 View Post
Assani gonna get paid.

Wouldnt be surprised if the kid sent Assani payment in full.

Quite frankly, that really is what should be done. At least by a person whos "on the right track" with a young biz and new family life and about to get a 5 figure windfall.

Its the right thing to do at this point
.
I feel like you're not even reading the thread and just making stuff up. I've posted exactly how JY is paying me already- he sent me multiple checks 2 days ago with instructions on when to cash each of them. I am not getting paid all at once, but I've told Jason this is ok and I'm good with this plan.

I've been ok with this plan since Jason suggested it. The only reason I ever went back to thinking MM might pay me is because he said so directly when NLSoldier asked him to clarify whether his post was saying that "assani, sheets, etc. were getting paid by you".

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 11-08-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #1745
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by boobies4me View Post
The evidence was all that which was supplied in the thread. People having been owed money for ages while all his money was tied up in a restaurant and the same exact discussion that already has been had in this thread. My point was simply that given all of what was known ITT, it was sensible to believe both were free rolling each other. Dear god this one has run it's course. Place it in the history books as a degens classic though.
You still don't seem to get it. What evidence is there for CM to not have paid in May? Assani and Sheets are irrelevant; Chris was unaware of Assani and Sheets bets took place in October.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewga View Post
Funny. This coming from a guy who posts this:



AND then you double post twice instead of editing your post for some stupid reason:

Post #1719 and #1720
Pst # 1722 and #1723

All four of these posts are you, so out of 5 consecutive posts, you are 4 of them. What a dumb hypocrite you are.
potkettle.jpg
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:00 PM   #1746
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Its like 100% no checks would be good right now. Sending the checks instead of dealing with Kilowatt was a stalling tactic rather than a convenience factor. JY would have used Kilowatt in a second if it were to get paid.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:05 PM   #1747
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

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Originally Posted by Banned4lyfe View Post
potkettle.jpg
How so?
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:06 PM   #1748
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by PraguePoker View Post
I mean seriously Assani, WTF? Not only do you get stiffed for over a year over a ridiculously small amount of cash, now that JY apparently is getting the money in full, you still allow a payment plan, ensuring he plays the float even longer? If that payment plan doesn't end in 3 months max, this is just crazy.

At some point, you really deserve some of this, quite frankly. If you act like a floor mat, people are going to walk all over you.

--PP
The payment plan should be over well before the end of the calendar year.

I've gotten some PMs similar to this post. You guys underestimate me sometimes....Rather than argue with Jason in any way, I've asked him to set up a payment plan with the only rule being that I'm going to publicly post if/when I have been paid in full. I'm well aware of the dynamic this sets up, and I think it results in me getting my money as quickly as possible while limiting any possible disputes. I think that if I were to try to dictate the terms of the payment plan and/or play more of a "tough guy" then that would be suboptimal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE View Post
Assani if JY is receiving the money in full from Chris, you shouldn't accept payment in installments although it's obviously better than nothing
I'm not in danger of being unable to pay rent/bills any time soon, so the difference between having my entire $2022 now and having it in 4-6 weeks really makes no practical difference to my life; I just want to feel secure that I am going to get it.

Since JY has already sent the checks in the mail, this seems to be the easiest way to ensure that nothing else will go wrong. If JY(or Chris) would rather sending me all the money ASAP then I would do that and rip up the checks(on camera if necessary to prove it). Otherwise, I'm ok with what we've set up.

Last edited by Assani Fisher; 11-08-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:09 PM   #1749
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Not sure why people are so upset about the payment plan, Assani seems fine with it and that's all that should matter.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #1750
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young - resolved (post 497&503)...then not (post 656)...then is (post 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Johnson View Post
Someone asked somewhere in this thread "Why do people who have no idea what they're talking about feel a need to post?"

The answer is: "Because 90% of the posts on this site (and on the net in general) would not exist".

Make that figure 98% for NVG.

This is an off-topic tangent, but wtf we've had a few already so no harm in one more....

In my experience the SB community is much more "hush hush" with their information than the poker community has been. As a result, most of the poker forums here are populated by regs who are very good at poker and who are posting solid advice that showcases a solid understanding of proper fundamentals. However the SB forum still has a ton of wrong/bad advice in threads(or at least they used to- I haven't read it in at least a year), and many of the OPs are started by guys who are clearly not beating SB long term. I experienced this first hand when I tried to start a thread in SB and got attacked as a "troll" simply because I had quite a few large misunderstandings about the truth behind winning sportsbetting.

Personally, I would rather educate the masses on poker/SB/etc. I think that a goal of a person in any profession should be to help the human race collectively get better and better at his/her area of expertise. It helps us as a species, and it forces you to continue to improve yourself if you want to continue to earn money. A lot of sportsbettors don't seem to want this and would rather protect their own income by keeping the public unaware of certain concepts.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of this except for how many sportsbettors then turn around and tell people how they don't know what they're talking about and shouldn't feel qualified to post on a subject. Well if you want the public to be better equipped to discuss subjects like this, then actually work on educating the public instead of protecting your own source of income so much. Otherwise the ignorance of the public in discussions like these is something you should expect, and good SBs shouldn't get angry when they encounter it.
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