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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2013, 06:13 PM   #851
dareyou2call
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
If I was here to back Moneymaker for any reason, I wouldn't have said way back on page 35 that Moneymaker was also freerolling. This was BEFORE Jason posted those damning text messages proving it.

Go back to page 35, have a look for yourself, and then step back for a moment and realize that I have no dog in this fight.
bottom line is your crucifying JY without evidence and have made one comment about MM with evidence.....how is this fair?
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:16 PM   #852
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
bottom line is your crucifying JY without evidence and have made one comment about MM with evidence.....how is this fair?
What are you talking about?

I am not crucifying anyone.

I said that BOTH were freerolling each other.

If Chris had won the bet and was demanding Jason pay him, I would be on Jason's side. (The only complicating factor is Jason's apparent invention of that bookie, but I would still be on Jason's side had Chris won the bet.)

Why? Because anyone freerolling should not be allowed to collect winnings. Since both were freerolling, neither can collect.

How is this me being biased? How am I excusing Chris' actions?
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:19 PM   #853
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by mavsfan4ever View Post
You said multiple times in the text messages that you thought you were going to get a "staking deal" but they fell through because the backers wanted it to be more like a loan and you wanted it to be a staking deal. And you were saying and implying that you would have paid Jason with this staking deal.

That is why people are saying that you planned to get a staking deal and then use at least part of that money to pay off your sports betting debts.

You never said in the text messages that you were going to get a loan and then pay Jason back but the loans fell through. You specifically said you wanted a staking deal and not a loan and you would pay him back.

On a somewhat separate note, it seems like Moneymaker's chances of getting a stake in the future should be severely diminished because of the above. Who in their right mind would trust him enough to stake him now?
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:20 PM   #854
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

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Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
What are you talking about?

I am not crucifying anyone.

I said that BOTH were freerolling each other.

If Chris had won the bet and was demanding Jason pay him, I would be on Jason's side. (The only complicating factor is Jason's apparent invention of that bookie, but I would still be on Jason's side had Chris won the bet.)

Why? Because anyone freerolling should not be allowed to collect winnings. Since both were freerolling, neither can collect.

How is this me being biased? How am I excusing Chris' actions?
i mean we are gonna keep arguing here because ill never concede jy was freerolling because i know he wasnt.......and if JY is paying back (albeit slowly) all the people he owes.....how is that a freeroll? if he pays everyone back......how come MM gets away with it and is the only one to get off free and clear?
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:20 PM   #855
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContactGSW View Post
Discover what? Something that may or may not have ever existed and is pure unproven innuendo as far as both parties in this are concerned? This is gambling, not law school mental masturbation. Once the money is down, or the bet is booked, if you didn't evaluate all the angles too bad, your team loses, pay the bet.

Many on here have bet with mob bookies, shady web sites, illegal home games, and still line up to put the money down. Do your due diligence before you sit down.

You make a bet, you win and you get money, you lose you pay money, that is not a pointless statement. You can bet with a good friend, a scum-bag or a criminal, but 'you' place the bet. I am paying for the loss of my bet, not the upright character of the person who I bet with, or the unproven possibility that he got one over on me or others.

If one of the parties doesn't pay its a welch no matter what the reason. A welch is a welch, no matter what kind of ugly little box its wrapped up in.

BTW, as far as details, show me anywhere in this monstrosity your 100% surety that either one of these guys planned or was active in free-rolling, rather than the standard degen practice of betting first and scrambling for the money later.
I don't have 100% surety of anything. You made the ridiculous assertion (and apparently still do) that once a bet is booked, that's it, nothing else matters. I gave you a hypothetical situation to see where you stood on that. I take it from this response that even if you were 100% certain that the person you bet with wouldn't have paid you, you'd still pay them. Talk about a scammer's paradise!
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:20 PM   #856
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Can I just give my feedback.

Why don't Moneymaker, Young and all the other parties resolve it privately now?

These threads are just making people change their minds. The damage has been done and now there's literally nothing these threads can do to make things better.

None of us have the right to judge, blame or talk about any of the parties because we were not involved.

I was scammed by a guy who claimed that he was Richard Brodie's 'horse' and he claimed that Brodie scammed us both. I put my case on TwoPlusTwo and I ended up being the scammer for 2 days till everything was proven and that me and Brodie had been had.

So these forums sway opinions and sometimes the jury is completely off.

My two cents if they're worth anything.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:21 PM   #857
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
ive been defensive of JY when it comes to the MM situation cause in that situation i know he is being honest....so if i know this it would make sense to defend him
Cool. I'm also giving JY the benefit of the doubt as much as possible, and I'm going about things assuming that everything he has told me has been the 100% truth.


Quote:
as for the slanderous comments.....i was not talking to you ....i was talking to some random drooler who kept coming in here and making comments and statements that were ridiculous and lacked any merit yet he was passing them off as fact
I understand that. The key point that you seem to be missing is that several of these "random droolers" came to their conclusions in large part due to seeing how JY handled my situation. Therefore I was curious if you thought this was fair, and the only way for you to evaluate that would be for you to look over my situation and see for yourself.


Quote:
as for your situation....i have in previous posts said the JY has not been perfect in his dealings ...i have made that clear.....in your case.....yea he was negligent....but he admitted it.....hes not saying he wont pay....he is saying that he will
I agree that he was negligent. I agree that he is saying he will pay. However, the bolded is simply not true. He has continued to refer to it as a "mutual" misunderstanding. After I posted in this thread his response wasn't to apologize, but rather he felt the need to point out that in one of my tweets I began it by saying "I've been slacking on this" as if that somehow makes this my fault(when in reality it was just me trying to be polite, in the hope that extreme politeness and no casting of blame would be optimal in terms of me getting paid).

Or our phone convo yesterday...as I said, I was kinda shocked at first when his tone wasn't apologetic as I was expecting. Thats ok and all- I just wanna get paid, I don't need an apology(in fact I think apologies are usually more beneficial to the apologizer in terms of character development than they are beneficial to the apologizee). However, this does not support the bolded part of your post.


Quote:
but from what ive heard....it wasnt like you were contacting him constantly over an extended period of time
This was in large part because I had no idea how to contact him outside of 2p2. I posted on 2p2(in the exact thread where our bet was made), sent him PMs, and used the 2p2 "send an email to this user" feature.


Quote:
you admitted to being somewhat lax in your collection methods as well
I mean, I have very little experience trying to collect debts. I'm not one to intimidate people or make threats. At minimum he has been completely aware of the situation since March 9, 2013. Once I've made sure that he is aware of his debts, what else am I supposed to do?


Quote:
.so yes.....jason could have handled your situation better.....no it has no relevance to chris
ok, thats where you and the "random droolers" seem to disagree. Thats why I brought this up- just to clarify for you why that disagreement exists. I don't care enough one way or the other to argue it, so I won't bother to give any opinion here.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I guess it can only be +EV for me to ask......

Quote:
and yes i believe when he says that he will eventually pay his debt to you in full
If I'm still not paid in X amount of time, would you be willing to vouch for him and pay it? You can make X whatever you want....6 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, etc.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:23 PM   #858
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
The fact that he won't even explain WHY he's avoiding them (such as, "I can't reveal his identity because I'm scared of him") means that he knows he's lying, and wants to push that subject away from the bookie's identity.
I enjoy reading your stuff Kilowatt, but the fact you are ignoring the possibility of this really being an impossibility, is leaving me confused.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:24 PM   #859
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Wow awesome thread, great way to waste two hours. Have very little to say other than that kilowatt has absolutely destroyed this thread over and over again. First time in forever that I have been blown away by someones ability to logically sort through a giagantic heap of BS, and make very clear, concise sense of it. Also:




Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
before i continue arguing with you.....who are you? who made you judge and jury? who says because you say something is one way that it is in fact that way? you keep asking questions but refuse to answer any......what happens if he gives a name? how do you then proceed? if its some random dude......and you confront him......hes obligated to be honest? and as for the money......if he isnt the book......why is his money even relevant?
you are clearly very biased and most likely a hothead in general. your ability to point fingers and get overly defensive, rather than find some truth in the thread, has done nothing but help this thread become more complicated and ******ed to read. We get it, you have a friend. You even believe he is right in an argument. You have provided zero evidence despite many, many words. GTFO

Assani, you continue to be an awesome human being. well done sir.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:25 PM   #860
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Again, I am more in favor of MM in this.

But last question to Kilowatt regarding your objectiveness.

I refuse to scroll through hundreds of posts so I am working off of memory here.

Didn't you state the debt should be voided if it can be proven that there was no bookie EVEN IF IT WAS PROVEN THAT JY HAD THE ABILITY TO PAY (because MM made the bet with "the bookie" and not Jason....LOL!)

That ain't objective bro. Talk about trying to get out on a technicality. This isn't a courtroom.

Save face edit - working off memory so if I have something wrong I apologize in advance. Way too lazy to find the post.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:26 PM   #861
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assani Fisher View Post
ok, thats where you and the "random droolers" seem to disagree.
TY for putting "random droolers" in quotes. To make emphasis that you aren't calling us that.

I for one apologize to you on behalf of Jason Young since he has yet to do so. I am sorry you are going through this.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:28 PM   #862
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

if anyone/ all of the investigators took any time to read the hsnl thread where the assani bet was made....you could see i was active- had active balances with many and all to my knowledge were handled both paying and being paid.

it was a super active thread with swaps and transfers done a ton, after the outtage you can see that i did not re-appear in the thread...i started a business that i worked 110+ hours a week.

it is super clear for anyone to see that i was plenty plenty solvent and its not even close at the point of the assani bet. After reviewing it, his first post that I see was in May after the outtage- i literally didnt know about this debt until this summer like i stated before.

look at the communications in there if you want and see the amount of people involved this should truly put an end to the debate of whether or not i had $ at the time.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:30 PM   #863
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I think if two people are freerolling each other, they have an obligation to still pay - a charity. Not having to pay anyone means it's...a freeroll! There should be a consequence to their actions.

Of course, this isn't a court of law, and it's hard to imagine two people admitting they freerolled each other and agreeing that the winner should donate the money. That's just what should happen in my imaginary world where everyone does the right thing. But of course in that world, no one would freeroll each other in the first place.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:32 PM   #864
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4JesseJames4 View Post
Wow awesome thread, great way to waste two hours. Have very little to say other than that kilowatt has absolutely destroyed this thread over and over again. First time in forever that I have been blown away by someones ability to logically sort through a giagantic heap of BS, and make very clear, concise sense of it. Also:






you are clearly very biased and most likely a hothead in general. your ability to point fingers and get overly defensive, rather than find some truth in the thread, has done nothing but help this thread become more complicated and ******ed to read. We get it, you have a friend. You even believe he is right in an argument. You have provided zero evidence despite many, many words. GTFO

Assani, you continue to be an awesome human being. well done sir.

im a hothead yet your the one coming into the thread and telling me to GTFO......who has provided evidence?? kilowatt has provided NO evidence ...he has simply drawn conclusions.....maybe you arent smart enough to decipher between evidence and opinions .....with that said.. you can GTFO
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:32 PM   #865
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CursedbyaGypsy View Post
Can I just give my feedback.

Why don't Moneymaker, Young and all the other parties resolve it privately now?
Young would love that so he could con that halfwit Moneymaker back into paying him again. LOL
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:33 PM   #866
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

In the circles these people run in, if JY would name the bookie, I can guarantee that there would be several people here who would know him and be able to verify JY's version that the bookie ran off.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:33 PM   #867
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post
i literally didnt know about this debt until this summer like i stated before.
You don't log your bets in an excel spreadsheet?

Oh are you still not talking to droolers?

Write down your bets in an excel spreadsheet from now on.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:36 PM   #868
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Quote:
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Young would love that so he could con that halfwit Moneymaker back into paying him again. LOL
Haha wp sir
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:36 PM   #869
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
im a hothead yet your the one coming into the thread and telling me to GTFO......who has provided evidence?? kilowatt has provided NO evidence ...he has simply drawn conclusions.....maybe you arent smart enough to decipher between evidence and opinions .....with that said.. you can GTFO
Confirmed hothead
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:41 PM   #870
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I just made this. Please print & save, for future reference when you make degen sportsbets with other poker players:

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Old 10-31-2013, 06:43 PM   #871
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Kilowatt is on fire

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Old 10-31-2013, 06:47 PM   #872
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

This thread has given me new meaning and joy to my life. Thank you.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:49 PM   #873
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Kilowatt is on fire

/thread . Can't possibly get better than this.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:51 PM   #874
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
its comical that you are almost certain the bookie didnt exist ......how can you be almost certain? theres absolutely nothing in this thread that could lead anyone to that conclusion with almost certainty....
Not certain. But the circumstantial evidence that has come forward, would lead any reasonable person to conclude:

1- JY was free rolling CM
2- CM was free rolling JY
3- JY was the bookie
4- JY was insolvent in April due to the FACT (not opinion) that he did not pay assani for the 2k bet he lost. And still has not paid.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:53 PM   #875
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Whether or not there was a bookie doesnt seem to matter much imo, once MM threatens to go public with this JY should write the money off as 20k doesnt seem to be worth the life EV of opening yourself up to possible criminal charges.
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