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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-31-2013, 02:22 PM   #776
ASAP17
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This thread (including the fact that it was brought public) is a scary reminder of how not to act when you become successful or make money in this industry. Degens gonna degen.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:23 PM   #777
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

I think a little bit of education would help people deal with one aspect of this situation specifically "Whether Jason was the book or not?" and whether that matters.

There are at least....basically 3 benefits of being an agent. (Or at least this is the way it worked back in 1683 when I knew more about it lol)

1.Getting a % of the losses of the customers. (already stated in this thread)

2.Being able to get action on the sides you yourself like at +vig (if you want, and if there is action on those sides from the customers)

3.Getting "risk free" shots at vig, by only laying off the excess action on sides to your "boss" or whoever. For example, if Chris wagered 10k on one side of a game and I wagered 5k on the opponent, Jason would be able to just lay off the 5k excess and pocket $500 for free (assuming 10% vig...oh and risk free assuming his customers paid hyachacha) , regardless of who won.

As a result, it is possible that while Jason may have had someone to lay off action with, there are also situations where he is defacto serving as multiple people's book.

After writing all of this, I do not even know how this applies, but I am sure that the more people know about the way these things work, the more informed opinions can be given.

I am just thinking of how I end up taking heat for my post....just when I think I am in the clear with that regard, someone gets mad at me.

We will see lol.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:24 PM   #778
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
Given new information and most importantly how it was handled by jason I am not paying him at all. He would of found 2+2 if he won and dodged that guy. I was fooled again talking to him and how he was a good guy just trying to pay everyone off. In reality he is talking to them and making promises while playing 5k events. End of discussion for me.
Not well said. Looking at the texts, you have been looking for a year and a half to get out of the bet. And now you are hitting an angle to save 15k. Your own desperate behavior has brought you to this situation, and your reasoning is still an excuse .

Your fame has bought you a lifestyle only few can fathom, but you are a gambler and a bet is supposed to be a bet. You bet, you pay. The key word is 'you', not him. No angles or extenuating circumstances.

Hey, but thanks for the ultra secret info that Stars is coming back to the USA.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:24 PM   #779
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Will say Jason is smooth on the phone. He almost got me to pay him 4 or 5 times after I knew he was taking a shot. Now he tries to manipulate assani.

Jason was the bookie that day not his "guy"
Jason "forgot" about the bet
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:26 PM   #780
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Erick Lindgren to mediate imo
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:27 PM   #781
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

obv I should use word loan instead of staking bad choice
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:35 PM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
obv I should use word loan instead of staking bad choice
Lol

Jesus Mary and Joseph Chris
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:02 PM   #783
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
To me it looks like Moneymaker was freerolling -- unless he has some kind of proof he found out Jason was insolvent and owed people money back in March/April when he lost his bets.

Jason looks bad here too, but part of it is he seems to communicate terribly in his posts. Hard to figure out exactly what the **** happened when.
This is pretty much what I've been saying all along. Chris can't prove he knew Jason was insolvent back when HE made the bet (No, Assani doesn't count). Seems pretty simple for Chris to prove this by asking one of the three people who messaged him back in April. He named AK87 as being one of them and it turns out his bets took place in October.

Chris really comes off desperate in those text.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:06 PM   #784
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

"The above proves that I was solvent at the time Chris lost the money and he would have been paid if he won.....he won 5k. I tried to pay it and he told me not to.... Hence I couldn't have been freerolling. And he in fact was unquestionably the freeroller...."

This is so unbelievably L-O-L.

Does ANYBODY on here (besides dareu2call) actually believe that? Had MM requested payment on the 5k win it would have been JY coming up with a myriad of excuses about not being able to pay. There was NO WAY that JY was going to snap pay him. And JY stating that this was proof that he was solvent is just so freakin' great (as well as coming off as an extremely bad conman; as MM recently stated, it seems like JY "performs" better live or over the phone).

What JY was able to prove is that MM was betting with $ that he didn't have.

But it still remains pretty clear that JY was taking bets that he didn't have money to pay out. I mean the sheets action from october/november pretty much confirms that.

As stated earlier, they were both free-rolling each other (consciously or sub-consciously; scumbags or not...all that stuff is very unclear)

and +1 to Jamie Platinum's post. This thread is a complete disaster and I'm disgusted with myself about how interested I am in it. No winners here (including us rubber-neckers)
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:09 PM   #785
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

LOL at the getting staked money for tournys and using it to pay debts. But if you say it was loan; how would that work?

Was it borrowing 100k and paying back 20k to JY or was it borrowing 20k and paying JY the full 20k?

This is the problem with these degens. They count markers and how much they can borrow as part of their disposable income. So now the guy that loans you money thinks you are good for it (which obviously you arent otherwise you would need to borrow) and he will get into a bind when he makes a bet and the cycle continues.

I am happy you beat Farha HU for the bracelet, but like Jamie Gold, like Jerry Yang, like Brad Booth, like Erik Lingren, like Chino Reem, i could keep going you need to come back to reality and stop trying to be Phil Ivey and live the baller lifestyle.

Its a sickness and we all are getting exposed.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:10 PM   #786
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

god those texts are depressing, I feel bad for having read them. Both parties manage to look terrible in this thread, while assani fisher just cements his status as one of the all time great posters.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:22 PM   #787
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbrochu View Post
That's a risk when you start a thread like this.

Actually, when you start a thread like this looking for help and accuse the other party of being insolvent (and therefore freerolling) it should be incumbent upon you to provide some information about your own situation --especially when it might help clear up the situation.

Also, that's quite an interesting staking deal you were looking for. Hard to believe you were turned down.
This type of post is so -ev. Did you read JY's twitter, about how he was going to go public with all of this, and the OP about how MM wanted to get out a head of it?

Yes, CM started this thread, but to think that he did so out of spite would be a horrible assumption imo.

And dear god those txts are rly bad. I literally have no idea who is in the wrong at this point. Although this is a good lesson to never txt people anything ever other than positive stuff, for fear of public humiliation.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:29 PM   #788
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
so after MM agrees to pay him and then backtracks and says he has changed his mind and absolutely never pay him JY should now cover for MM when he has evidence of his insolvency and desperation? what is wrong with you people?
You are good friends why Jy, ur obv biased. I prob would be too in your spot. Jy says he wasnt the bookie but he has said nothing to prove it. I dont know either one of these guys. Posting those texts was awful as a human to do to Chris. Yea Chris looks like a dolt because of his flip flopping. But until Jy proves he had money, or can at least allude to who the "bookie" was, I'm going to assume he booked the action of a bunch of degen poker players assuming (rightfully so) that theres a relatively good chance he wins and this **** never happens.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:36 PM   #789
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

This is me deciding who is in the right

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Old 10-31-2013, 03:39 PM   #790
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur2barredout View Post
You are good friends why Jy, ur obv biased. I prob would be too in your spot. Jy says he wasnt the bookie but he has said nothing to prove it. I dont know either one of these guys. Posting those texts was awful as a human to do to Chris. Yea Chris looks like a dolt because of his flip flopping. But until Jy proves he had money, or can at least allude to who the "bookie" was, I'm going to assume he booked the action of a bunch of degen poker players assuming (rightfully so) that theres a relatively good chance he wins and this **** never happens.
wrong. This is very relavent information to this situation. ALL RELEVENT INFO SHOULD BE POSTED. It was so damning to Chris's case people have already jumped ship to JY side, so you are completely wrong in saying it was an awful thing to do.

If he posted text messages of Chris admitting to crossdressing or something unrelated and embarrassing to destroy his moneymakers rep that would be awful, but JY is just posting facts.
Dont like facts, dont beg for more time and just pay what you owe
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:50 PM   #791
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Flip-flopping on who's right or who's wrong seems completely reasonable as it's becoming more and more likely that they were freerolling each other.

I believe MM would have eventually paid but he stalled long enough to stumble across JY's shadiness....And is now using it as an out.

The question is if MM had won 15kish would he ever have gotten paid. I think this thread has made it pretty clear that he would not have gotten paid on the spot. Seems questionable if he would have ever gotten paid.

Resolution: Both parties admit they were betting and taking bets for which they didn't have the liquid cash to pay. Settle for exactly half of the total amount owed by MM. Make sure it goes to JY's (long) list of creditors.

While I don't disagree with Fordham about the txts being posted, I think any agreement should include the txts being perma-deleted.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:54 PM   #792
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordham View Post
wrong. This is very relavent information to this situation. ALL RELEVENT INFO SHOULD BE POSTED. It was so damning to Chris's case people have already jumped ship to JY side, so you are completely wrong in saying it was an awful thing to do.

If he posted text messages of Chris admitting to crossdressing or something unrelated and embarrassing to destroy his moneymakers rep that would be awful, but JY is just posting facts.
Dont like facts, dont beg for more time and just pay what you owe
It's relevant but we already knew most of it, but I dunno maybe you are right. Maybe go through arbitration and use that as evidence there. Just makes me squirm seeing that stuff posted in nvg.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:57 PM   #793
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur2barredout View Post
I But until Jy proves he had money, or can at least allude to who the "bookie" was, I'm going to assume he booked the action of a bunch of degen poker players assuming (rightfully so) that theres a relatively good chance he wins and this **** never happens.
What, is there some sort of official rule book on illegal betting that I didn't get issued?

Does not matter if that guy booked it himself or had a boss. Doesn't matter if either guy had the money in their pocket to pay off the bet when it was made. Does not matter if either one owes others.

One gambler made a bet with another. Whoever won the bet gets paid. Otherwise its a welch.

Does the rule book says welchs are OK if one or both of the guys is an ass?
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:58 PM   #794
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Would MM even have the money to pay when he originally decided to pay sheets/assani etc? Or would they have to wait? Why would he all of a sudden have money? Ahhh so many questions. I'm still siding with MM by the slimmest of margins
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:06 PM   #795
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordham View Post
LOL at the getting staked money for tournys and using it to pay debts. But if you say it was loan; how would that work?

Was it borrowing 100k and paying back 20k to JY or was it borrowing 20k and paying JY the full 20k?

This is the problem with these degens. They count markers and how much they can borrow as part of their disposable income. So now the guy that loans you money thinks you are good for it (which obviously you arent otherwise you would need to borrow) and he will get into a bind when he makes a bet and the cycle continues.

I am happy you beat Farha HU for the bracelet, but like Jamie Gold, like Jerry Yang, like Brad Booth, like Erik Lingren, like Chino Reem, i could keep going you need to come back to reality and stop trying to be Phil Ivey and live the baller lifestyle.

Its a sickness and we all are getting exposed.
/thread
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:07 PM   #796
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vazdog33 View Post

While I don't disagree with Fordham about the txts being posted, I think any agreement should include the txts being perma-deleted.
I agree once this is resolved, the texts should be deleted. But I have already saved them to my own harddrive for my own amusement and i'm sure others have also so doubt Chris lives this down.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:22 PM   #797
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Could you imagine showing non poker players this thread and having them see "I'm owed 6 figures" , "this guy owes me 20k" etc. Most people barely have money to pay their mortgage and gives their kids lunch money. These guys value of a dollar is so far gone its unreal. Gambling has to be the worst sickness known to man.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:23 PM   #798
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
obv I should use word loan instead of staking bad choice
You said multiple times in the text messages that you thought you were going to get a "staking deal" but they fell through because the backers wanted it to be more like a loan and you wanted it to be a staking deal. And you were saying and implying that you would have paid Jason with this staking deal.

That is why people are saying that you planned to get a staking deal and then use at least part of that money to pay off your sports betting debts.

You never said in the text messages that you were going to get a loan and then pay Jason back but the loans fell through. You specifically said you wanted a staking deal and not a loan and you would pay him back.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:33 PM   #799
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dareyou2call View Post
i wont respond to you again after this because you clearly just want to argue and you are some random know nothing........but i know for a fact he wasnt the book....and you dont know anything because you dont know any of the parties involved and you have 0 knowledge of anything other than what you see in this thread ... i know its exciting for you to be involved in a debate involving some people you may have seen on tv but trying to ruin someones reputation and livelihood by posting slanderous comments without factual knowledge is wrong and irresponsible....
Hey dareyou2call,

I realize that JY vs MM is a much bigger issue than JY vs me, but since you seem to have good insight into the matter I would ask you to give some thoughts on the latter. Jason has stated that his bet with me, unlike others, had nothing to do with him being the middle man for a bookie. Therefore since Jason was the book with me, I'm curious as to your thoughts on how Jason has handled his bet with me. I don't really care about all the other stuff with other people. I have already laid out the details of our situation clearly, but if you need me to reference and/or re-quote the posts I can do so. Thanks for your insight and help into this matter- it is much appreciated.
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Old 10-31-2013, 04:36 PM   #800
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Re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503...and then not - see post 656)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContactGSW View Post
Doesn't matter if either guy had the money in their pocket to pay off the bet when it was made.
I make a bet with you. After losing the bet, but before paying, you discover absolute 100% airtight evidence that I never would've paid you had you won. Do you still pay me?

If your answer is yes, I'd say you're in a very small minority. And if it's no, your whole post was pretty pointless.
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