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View Poll Results: (Public Poll) I am siding with...
Chris Moneymaker 62 82.67%
Jason Young 13 17.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-28-2013, 06:53 PM   #426
sba9630
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
The key point is if chris won how would he have gotten paid. Sheets won over a year ago and still hasn't been paid. Surprised no one has latched onto this.
...
Uhhhh....post #389:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary_Tiger View Post
Jason has shown himself to be insolvent, so it's very likely he was freerolling Chris. If he can't pay sheets when Chris lost, how could he have paid Chris if Chris won?



.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Post of the thread winner.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:04 PM   #427
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by imadonk View Post
BS, CM you lost a bet so pay the man and forget the other crap. JY never rolled you before from what I understand. Stop blaming others for your screw ups for once in your life, payoff this bet, learn from it and move on. When you make a decision to do anything in life YOU own it good or bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imadonk View Post
CM took the credit $15K from JY and LOST it. But instead of paying JY he's running around playing Detective Columbo. Sheets and the other guys is a separate issue, THEY WON. Let them deal with JY their way.
Are you even reading the thread? Take your level 1 knee jerk logic elsewhere.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:10 PM   #428
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Winnings paid by Lock> Money owed by Chino Rheem > Bets owed by Chris Moneymaker> Bookmaking payouts by JY ......although this is a tough foursome to separate.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:18 PM   #429
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xosubucknutsx View Post
When he placed the bet he didn't have any reason to think he wouldn't be pay. It was only after the fact that he found out people weren't being paid (according to MM). If he placed bets after finding out this info then your point is valid. So only after you get screwed can you do something? What if all evidence indicated you were going to be screwed after the fact? It's that mentality that allows scams to take place. What about being proactive once you find out? Assuming if what MM says is true.
It is all very convenient for MM to say that after he had lost the bet in question with JY, he came across some information that led him to believe that JY could not satisfy his losing bets and he should therefore not have to pay.

Not saying his chronology of events isn't true, just convenient and suits his purpose of not wanting to pay.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:23 PM   #430
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
It is all very convenient for MM to say that after he had lost the bet in question with JY, he came across some information that led him to believe that JY could not satisfy his losing bets and he should therefore not have to pay.

Not saying his chronology of events isn't true, just convenient and suits his purpose of not wanting to pay.
You have a point, but nobody has sprouted up besides JY saying CM owes them money. But you do have people sprouting up saying JY owes them money.

Just saying. JY looks way worse here then CM in my eyes.

I think that should be taken into consideration.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:27 PM   #431
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Chris should pay the debt.

Here is a good example that will prove above stated.

Let's say...Week 1 Chris wins $2,000 and collects. Week 2 Chris loses $10,000 and hears that Jason owes money to other players and decides not to pay him.

What Jason and Sheets has going on is none of anyones business and not apart of this deal.

If 10+ people came forward that Jason owes them money regarding sports then it's a different story.

Chris has delayed paying because he doesn't want to pay and now has found a reason not to pay. He trusted Jason enough to take his action so he should pay what he owes and then part ways.

CASE CLOSED.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:46 PM   #432
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

If you choose to gamble large sums of money, then do it with a reputable, professional sports book. There are plenty out there with zero risk of being angled, so why did you need to go to a guy like Jason to make bets? You didn't need to, but you chose to, and regardless of if you think you were being free-rolled, this is a judgement you should have made before making the bet, not after.

Pay the man Chris, you lost your bet. You should learn from this, and hopefully if you can get this debt paid off soon you will be able to move on with your reputation intact, and think carefully about who you gamble with in future.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:10 PM   #433
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by littletrix View Post
If you choose to gamble large sums of money, then do it with a reputable, professional sports book. There are plenty out there with zero risk of being angled, so why did you need to go to a guy like Jason to make bets?
A lot of sports bettors are a bit sick. I really think the game of owing people money and people owing them is half the fun. They secretly love the drama that comes with it, just like this thread. It would be no fun if they bet $500 online and someone they didn't know sent them a check in the mail a couple days later.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:25 PM   #434
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

thats not how the sports book world works. freerolling is a no-no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveActionPro View Post
If Chris doesn't owe Jason, then 100% owes money to other guys if some how can prove they are owed money and just not using it as a scapegoat.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:27 PM   #435
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Well I don't get it, Chris should be living the good life, not getting tangled up in scandal over a dodgy $15k bet!
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:28 PM   #436
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

ive been in this exact situation before and ended up paying and still regret it.

you were not going to get payed if you won. please dont pay.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:40 PM   #437
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by littletrix View Post
Well I don't get it, Chris should be living the good life, not getting tangled up in scandal over a dodgy $15k bet!
This would obviously be the first instance of someone binking a huge score and degenning it off somehow, further being unable to pay their debts. Not sure how he isn't living the good life as we speak.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:42 PM   #438
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by boobies4me View Post
Are you even reading the thread? Take your level 1 knee jerk logic elsewhere.
I believe level 1 knee jerk logic is a compliment itt ? Yes I read it cover to cover bubbles! My comments were not addressed to MM fanboys so gtfo.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:42 PM   #439
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheetsworld View Post
I really doubt Jason is trying to scam anyone here, as he has told me that whatever he does collect from Chris will be going to other people he owes.
i understand you are biased in this but come on.

it seems pretty obvious that jason was scamming everyone betting with him.

you are waiting a year to get paid. how can you say he is not scamming?
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:54 PM   #440
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Isn't sports betting (with or without a bookie) illegal?
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:58 PM   #441
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw View Post
Isn't sports betting (with or without a bookie) illegal?
That is why it hasn't gone to court.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:02 PM   #442
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Nobody ever thought of using a PPH?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:25 PM   #443
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jack4321 View Post
i understand you are biased in this but come on.

it seems pretty obvious that jason was scamming everyone betting with him.

you are waiting a year to get paid. how can you say he is not scamming?
How is it obvious that Jason was scamming people? Do you have any proof there wasn't a bookie in March/April? Chris has ZERO proof of the following:

Quote:
I discovered that Jason owed 18k back around April when I lost. I was in an airport in Europe heading home with every intention to pay Jason. When I found this out yes I waited/stalled whatever you want to call it. Another guy came to me saying Jason owed him 24k a few weeks later.
If Jason did in fact owe this person (who for some reason we haven't heard from) then yeah, Jason can be accused of freerolling/scamming(?) but there hasn't really been any concrete evidence presented by either side.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:41 PM   #444
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunlap View Post
As I am sitting in airport headed home I get a Skype message from another guy that used to bet in the forum. He asked if Jason owed me money and I responded that I owed him. He told me Jason has owed him 18k for a few weeks and hadn't paid and asked I pay him instead of Jason. I told him at that time I would not pay Jason and pay him.
I don't understand why you wouldn't keep a record of this Skype message given that it appears to be so crucial to your case of not having to pay JY on the grounds of being allegedly freerolled?

That is, unless it is made up or didn't actually occur in April but later on in the year which further undermines your decision to not pay him immediately when you lost.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:43 PM   #445
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

the proof is probably that the 18k thing wasnt disputed at all by Young. Atleast I dont think ive seen that. So if its bull**** why wouldnt he say so?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:51 PM   #446
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by MakeBelieve View Post
the proof is probably that the 18k thing wasnt disputed at all by Young. Atleast I dont think ive seen that. So if its bull**** why wouldnt he say so?
Well it appears to me that JY has not confronted many if any of MM assertions but simply makes his case with these two contentions:

1. MM lost, so he automatically owes him the money (the actual amount is in dispute though, so perhaps that would need some independent arbitration to resolve); and
2. That MM gave him a promise at Vegas that he would be paid back to which MM has since then failed to respond to as to its accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Young View Post

Did you or did you not tell me in vegas you were going to pay me in full you were sorry for the delay and you were working on a staking deal that was going to get you some $ and you would be able to take care of me with that.

Just tell the truth...its rather simple
And it should also be said that after JY made this assertion about the promise, MM started to call for private arbitration. Is that an implicit reading of guilt?
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:24 PM   #447
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRiverSniper View Post
The issues you, Kilowatt, and other CM supporters are missing (and ignoring) is:

1- Did CM have the ability to pay JY if he lost? Apparently not, as he was wagering on "credit". If you want to make an issue of JY's solvency, then the same standard should apply to CM. Its beginning to look like he was wagering with money he doesn't have/had. Just another in a long list of poker degens.

2-Does CM have a history of stiffing or free rolling bookies? Apparently Yes he does. He has admitted to stiffing 2 bookies in the past and only payed up after he binked the WSOP.

So you are speculating on issues concerning JY, but we actually have facts and some history concerning CM's behavior. Lets hold him to the same standard as JY.


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What if is it was found that your youngest son's card was a worthless forgery and he was actually completely broke in terms of Pokemon cards?


PS: I used to love closest to the wall and topsies. Serious kid gaming.
I got in trouble in 5th grade catholic school for playing (and winning) shooting dimes and quarters closest to the wall. A buddy and I totally owned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littletrix View Post
If you choose to gamble large sums of money, then do it with a reputable, professional sports book. There are plenty out there with zero risk of being angled, so why did you need to go to a guy like Jason to make bets? You didn't need to, but you chose to, and regardless of if you think you were being free-rolled, this is a judgement you should have made before making the bet, not after.

Pay the man Chris, you lost your bet. You should learn from this, and hopefully if you can get this debt paid off soon you will be able to move on with your reputation intact, and think carefully about who you gamble with in future.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFalls View Post
This would obviously be the first instance of someone binking a huge score and degenning it off somehow, further being unable to pay their debts. Not sure how he isn't living the good life as we speak.
Chris has Hollywood #Cbus money which is obv > Stars money.

Isn't this a zero sum thing? Chris admits to gambling and losing $15k. Simply put, he should pay $15k. Put it in escrow and let the people who Jason owes divide it equitably. Saying "I was being freerolled so I'm not going to pay" is really lame. What you mean is "I got lucky that I didn't get freerolled out of $15k so I'm using that as an excuse to go back on my word and ruin my reputation".

Chris- you should understand that it's better for you to be known as a guy who was freerolled out of $15k than a guy who welched on $15k worth of bets. Withholding the $ you owe hurts guys like sheets more than it hurts Jason. DUCY?
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:30 PM   #448
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

yeah thats probably accurate aswell.

I remember from first reading the thread mm said he stalled, avoided payment because he heard about the debts. thats probably his excuse for promising payment. But indeed its not a normal line to take if you think a guy is scamming you.

btw I just now read that reply again from young thats added in the OP. He basically does say MM is full of ****.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:39 PM   #449
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by donniccolo View Post




I got in trouble in 5th grade catholic school for playing (and winning) shooting dimes and quarters closest to the wall. A buddy and I totally owned.



This.



Chris has Hollywood #Cbus money which is obv > Stars money.

Isn't this a zero sum thing? Chris admits to gambling and losing $15k. Simply put, he should pay $15k. Put it in escrow and let the people who Jason owes divide it equitably. Saying "I was being freerolled so I'm not going to pay" is really lame. What you mean is "I got lucky that I didn't get freerolled out of $15k so I'm using that as an excuse to go back on my word and ruin my reputation".

Chris- you should understand that it's better for you to be known as a guy who was freerolled out of $15k than a guy who welched on $15k worth of bets. Withholding the $ you owe hurts guys like sheets more than it hurts Jason. DUCY?
Can someone please explain how MM wasn't being freerolled by JY? It has been proven that JY had zero intention or the ability to payout if MM had won. It seems ludicrous to me that people want MM to pay so JY can payoff gambling debt he accrued by failing at free rolling scam.

Maybe I'm not seeing something.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:41 PM   #450
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re: moneymaker vs jason young (resolved - see post 497 & 503)

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw View Post
Isn't sports betting (with or without a bookie) illegal?

Nope.

Legal without a bookie
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