He doesn't answer questions.

The problem with public polls is that they ask the public, which is generally made up of less than intelligent people. It's a shame polling (and voting for that matter) isn't limited to smart people.

Rut roh.

Also as previously state, hopefully this thread teaches people not to play with large sums of money that they can't afford to lose, repay, etc. And that if they'd like to bet on sports, to use their brains before doing so. I can't imagine Chris doesn't know a dozen people who can place bets for him in LV and text him screenshots of the receipts, etc. Jason, don't middle action that you can't afford to middle. Actually just don't take bets at all. And don't invest in restaurants either.

I feel so good that a settlement has been reached. Now Jason can get back to taking bets with money he does not have, and MM can place sport bets on credit with shady characters who won't pay him.

Well played MM, you just gain another fan. But most of all you leave with your dignity. Smart Move and Good Luck!

FYP

Sorry Christopher, but none of this is cool. You need to take this for the wake up call that it is. Imho, your on the tail end of the boom fading fast. IDK the details of your biz relationships, but I cant imagine the " brand" has much more staying power. Be thankful this bs got swept basically and stop dealing with shady people.

I knew you were gonna stiff the dude... but you cant do that... you are Chris Moneymaker

I think that is a huge exaggeration. I known a couple agents who act as middle men/runners/beards/mules/etc.

This is a really bad decision on your part. You shouldn't pay other people's debts.

Of course you are going to feel obligated when talking to sheets (who wants to get paid) and jason (who by all accounts is either a scammer or not very forward thinking).

Glad for the both of you this got resolved, it was not helping either reputation. Does not seem like bad intent on either part.

I have always had a no borrow no lend policy ( since getting burned in 2003). But not with the OFC app I have a few outstanding debts and it SUCKS.

I will miss the drama of this thread, it was a fun read.

Yet you have nothing to back it up. AK87's bets were placed around October, not even close to April. So you're already wrong about one case, prob. same with the others.

Glad that an amicable solution could be reach.

I also find it interesting that making something public brought this year-long drama to a quick end.

To add

At least you didn't get your hand caught in the hooker jar.

At least this got worked out. Sucks that it had to be in public imo.

This is a complete mess, and the "resolution" was terrible.

Here are my conclusions:

1. There was no bookie. Jason was booking the bets himself. This thread is now 35 pages long. Jason has dodged all questions about the bookie, including requests to privately name the bookie to a trusted third party. It is reasonably certain by Jason's lack of response here, along with the general suspicious nature of the entire situation, that there was no third-party bookie.


2. Jason did not have the money to cover the bet when Chris placed it. It is unclear of the reason for this. It had to be one of three things:

-- a) This was an outright scam/freeroll, born out of desperation to get out of a huge financial mess.

-- b) This was a "middling" or "make guaranteed juice" situation, where Jason got someone else to take the reverse Chris' action, perhaps at a worse line, and then the whole thing collapsed when Chris couldn't/wouldn't pay.

-- c) Jason did not set out to scam Chris, but was simply booking too much action that he couldn't cover, unrealsitically telling himself that somehow he would eventually pay everyone if he lost. This is what I call "The Lindgren Excuse", and while more noble than outright scamming/freerolling, is still pretty scummy.

If I had to guess, I would say that "c" above is what really happened.


3) Chris also did not have the money at the time the bet was made. I believe that Chris believed a staking deal was coming in the near future, and would be able to cover it somehow through that if he lost. When the staking deal fell through, Chris was probably unable to pay the $20k, and rather than snap-pay Jason as he would have if flush with money, probably decided to research the situation a bit more before paying. Once he found that Jason also did not have the money to back the bet, and in fact appeared to have lied about the bookie, Chris felt justified not to pay him at all. Obviously this also means Chris was not completely innocent in this situation, either. However, the difference is that Chris bet the money as himself (with Jason's full knowledge and ability to ascertain his financial health), while Jason bet the money as a fictitious person (which is fraudulent).


4) The biggest winners here are Jason's creditors -- sheets, et all. They were probably coming close to writing off this money as uncollectible. Now they will be likely be getting paid -- at least partially -- fairly soon, and via an unrelated third party! Talk about pennies from heaven!


5) The second-biggest winner here is Jason. He likely created a fake "reputable" bookie to take large sportsbets, booked the action himself with money he didn't have, and somehow is able to get one of his winning bets paid in full! He doesn't make out quite as well as his creditors, as he simply is having debt erased rather than any kind of cash infusion (the thing he really wanted), but that's still a great result when you were freerolling/lying and got caught.


6) The loser here is Chris. He pretty much lost in every way here. Now a large group of 2+2 readers know that he is a broke sportsbetting degen. Some now believe him to be a shady character, who tries to weasel out of bets. And worst yet, despite all of that, he's still out 20k! Wow! This couldn't have ended worse for him.


I still believe Chris was in the right, simply because he bet with a fictitious third party, and you cannot owe a fictitious entity money. Once that was discovered, the bet should have been immediately considered null and void. Furthermore, Jason himself clearly didn't have the money to cover it at the time, so he was being both lied to and freerolled. Even if Chris was somewhat freerolling himself, that isn't material here, because he lost the bet. Had the bet fallen the other way, it would be a much tougher call, since at least Jason's bet would have been with a real person (Chris).

omg omg omg its moneymaker, wow

You should edit the op so it's clear you added the poll. Before I read the quoted post I thought it was incredibly lame of CM to include a poll with the op while only presenting his side of the story(your edit makes it clear you added JY side of events after the op was made).

Poll been closed for hours, but I see your point and noted.

can someone give me the cliffs of this thread? jason has owed my friend a few thousand bucks for over a year. i will alert him to this thread.