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Old 02-22-2011, 01:53 PM   #1
Foucault
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Angry Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

I recently had an experience with Ultimate Bet that can best be described as “shady”. I don’t feel that the evidence warrants accusing them of outright theft, so I’m just going to post a factual account of what happened and let people make up their own minds:

In 2007 and 2008, I had an active account on Ultimate Bet. I played in their bigger tournaments and in cash games ranging from 5/10 to 25/50 NL. When the extent of the cheating that had taken place on UB began coming to light, I withdrew the entire balance of my account and have not played on there since.

On January 24, I discovered an old e-mail from UB , dated 2/19/2010, in my spam folder. The e-mail informed me that I had $1040.26 in my account and encouraged me to come play on the site. I do not know for certain where the money came from. My best guess is that it was a superuser refund, but to my knowledge (it could also have been lost to a spam filter, though I think the other email got scammed primarily because it was an auto-generated advertisement), I never received an e-mail or anything explaining that I would be getting a refund.

The old e-mail that I stumbled upon was NOT a notification that money had been credited to my account. It seemed to be an advertisement sent automatically because I had not logged in for a while, informing me that there was money in my account and encouraging me to return to UB to use it.

I have no intention of playing on UB anytime soon, but I downloaded the software and logged into my account intending to withdraw the $1040.26. Upon logging in, I received a message that my account was unavailable and that I needed to e-mail support, which I did:

Quote:
I attempted to log-in to my account this morning and received a message
saying it was unavailable. I assume this is because it has been quite
some time since my last log-in. Is there something I need to do to get
access to the account and its contents again?
The next day, they responded:

Quote:
We checked your account and we are pleased to inform you that at this moment, your UB account is in good standing and has no security blocks or restrictions. Please try to log in once again, and in case you experience any other issues, please let us know.
It’s not clear whether they are saying that there was never a restriction on my account or that they lifted whatever restriction there was, but in any event I was able to log-in successfully. I was not surprised to see that my account balance was $0. I wrote back immediately:

Quote:
Thank you, I was able to log in successfully today. Unfortunately, there
seems to be $1040.26 missing from my account. Allow me to explain:

Several years ago, I decided to stop playing on UB. I cashed out my
balance, deleted the software from my computer, and never logged in again.

Yesterday, quite by accident, I found an e-mail in spam folder informing
me that I had a balance of $1040.26 in my account. This e-mail is dated
2/19/2010, but because it was caught by my spam filter, I never saw it
until now. I am assuming that this was a refund I was issued in
connection with the cheating that occurred on UB.

Upon logging it in today, I find that I have a balance of $0.

Obviously, I would like to know what happened to the $1040.26. If you
could please look into this and get back to me, I would greatly
appreciate it.
The next day, the money was back in my account, no questions asked and no explanation given:

Quote:
We are pleased to inform you that your account has been reactivated and you should now be able to log in. Also, we have put back $1040.26 to your UB account.

When playing in our poker room, please abide by our Terms and Conditions at all times.

Important: Sometimes players experience difficulties logging in from the lobby after having their account reinstated. Please follow the instructions below to ensure that you can access your UB account without issue.

1. Open the UB software.
2. Go to a table.
3. Choose an empty seat to sit down.
4. Proceed with the login process from there.

We appreciate your patience in this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any additional questions or concerns.
After withdrawing the funds and confirming that they were safely in my bank account, I asked for an explanation as to why the money was removed from my account. Here is the response that I got:

Quote:
Thank you for contacting us.

In regard to your last message, please be informed that funds were on hold since we found out that your account was inactive for more than 6 months.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any additional questions or concerns.
I find this suspicious for a few reasons:

1. I don’t know at what point the money was removed, but my account had been inactive for well over 6 months when the initial e-mail “reminding” me about the $1040.26 was sent.

2. The money was not automatically restored to my account when I re-activated it. More than 24 hours passed between the time that security informed me I could log in to my account and the time that the money was restored to my account.

3. Significantly, the money was not restored until I asked about it, but was restored immediately when I asked about it. In retrospect I wish I had allowed more time to pass before asking, just to see what happened, but it seems to me that they had no intention of putting that money back into my account had I not inquired.

In their defense, the User Agreement does state that

Quote:
If you do not access your Account by logging onto the UB servers and using the Services offered by UB for any consecutive period of 180 days your Account will be deemed inactive, and may be deemed abandoned. UB is entitled to charge you periodic administrative fee(s) during the period that your Account remains inactive, up to the extent of your Account balance. Without limitation, if your Account is deemed by UB to be abandoned, your Account may be closed, this Agreement may be terminated, and/or UB may take the other actions or remedies set forth in Section 8.2 of this Agreement.
The primary reason that I have problem with them confiscating money from the account in this case is that, as best I can surmise, the only reason that there was money in there at all was because of the cheating that occurred on their site. In that case, this was a refund that I was issued when I was no longer an active player and would have no reason to realize that this money had been added to my account. I’m sure I’m not the only person to receive a refund after cashing out my account never to return, and it doesn’t seem right to me that they can take this money back after 6 months of inactivity.

I gave them one last chance to explain themselves before posting this:

Quote:
Thank you. I am still unclear on what happened, though.

Where did this $1040.26 come from? Was it a refund from the Russ Hamilton/superuser incident? If so, why was I not informed that I had received this refund?

What does it mean that the funds were “on hold”? Would they have been returned to my account if I hadn’t asked about them?
This was sent on February 4, 2011. It is now the 21st, and they have not responded, so I’m posting this as a PSA to others who may be in a similar situation and generally as yet another warning that UB is still engaged in shady practices.

Cliff’s Notes: I stopped playing on UB years ago and cashed out my balance. For some reason, possibly as a superuser refund, $1040.26 was credited to my account without my knowledge. I eventually found in my spam folder an old advertising email from UB telling me there was still money in my account. When I logged in, the money was gone. I wrote to ask why, and they returned the money with no explanation. When further pressed, they told me the money was “on hold” because of my extended inactivity but did not respond to further questions. I was able to cash out the money.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:58 PM   #2
tibrida
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Why don't you just wait until you have all the information and evidence instead of just crying "SHADY BUSINESS ITT" first?
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:58 PM   #3
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

180 days is an awfully short amount of time to completely close an account with funds in it.

Sure, they gave him the money after an email, but it's REALLY shady that they took the money from his account without ever notifying him of doing so.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:02 PM   #4
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibrida View Post
Why don't you just wait until you have all the information and evidence instead of just crying "SHADY BUSINESS ITT" first?
Specifically what steps do you feel I should have taken that I did not? I e-mailed them requesting an explanation over two weeks ago, and they have not responded.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:03 PM   #5
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Don't partypoker do something similar?
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:05 PM   #6
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

what are you crying about? you got $1040 free...

they closed your account.. big deal

you asked for the money, they gave it to you... big deal

you cashed out without issue... big ****in deal.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:05 PM   #7
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibrida View Post
Why don't you just wait until you have all the information and evidence instead of just crying "SHADY BUSINESS ITT" first?
Because UB blew their right to the benefit of the doubt about 8 scandals ago.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:07 PM   #8
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

I thought I saw a thread like this with a similar story the other day, funds going missing from acc's and then being put back? I have never played on UB so I dont know how they operate over there but from all the reports of scamming and superusers and what not, I doubt ill ever even install their client.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:08 PM   #9
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

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Originally Posted by Da33le View Post
Don't partypoker do something similar?
Yeah I think party contact you after about 6 months of inactivity and state that you gotta play one raked hand or something like that to keep the acc open
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:09 PM   #10
tibrida
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

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Originally Posted by Foucault View Post
Specifically what steps do you feel I should have taken that I did not? I e-mailed them requesting an explanation over two weeks ago, and they have not responded.
Not post until they answer. They are a business that has to investigate if they do not have the answers readily available (regardless of their shady past).

Maybe if you waited until you had the full story or even emailed them back again regarding the issue, you wouldn't just start a speculation fest. Who the hell knows what happened to it? Maybe another rogue employee took the money without their knowledge or maybe your account was inactive for too long and it was sitting in escrow? I could spew off 10,000 possibilities and they would all be speculations. What difference does it make since you're freerolling this monies anyways?
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:09 PM   #11
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

I'd just like to say it's good that you posted this and ignore the few UB fanboys that are going to defend UB. The way they handled this is very shady and if they do this with every account that goes unactive they probably get away with it a lot of the times.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:10 PM   #12
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

wtf is this chit? You got 1040 bucks for free and you are crying? Stfu and be glad they gave the money to you and that you could withdraw it without problems.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:11 PM   #13
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibrida View Post
Not post until they answer. They are a business that has to investigate if they do not have the answers readily available (regardless of their shady past).

Maybe if you waited until you had the full story or even emailed them back again regarding the issue, you wouldn't just start a speculation fest. Who the hell knows what happened to it? Maybe another rogue employee took the money without their knowledge or maybe your account was inactive for too long and it was sitting in escrow? I could spew off 10,000 possibilities and they would all be speculations. What difference does it make since you're freerolling this monies anyways?
It makes a difference because it is very likely other people that will read this will find that they have been "scammed" in the same way
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:13 PM   #14
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

OP, does your spam filter delete any messages? If not, make sure you have identified every mail UB has sent you between the receiving of the money and when you found out about it and realised it was gone. If there is no mail warning you the money would get removed, this is very serious imo.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:15 PM   #15
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

you should rename this to "UB game me free money". i don't see the problem here... it cleary says if you stop playing they will take your money. you got a 1000 bucks for free why is this a problem?
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:15 PM   #16
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Why is everyone bashing him for making this thread? Seems to me he is only asking questions why they do this, there might be someone who understands what the thought process is behind UB actions.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:15 PM   #17
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

I think this is a great post.
It notifies others who could've possibly received refunds and aren't aware of it (and have since had their accounts closed).

Quote:
Originally Posted by McHudson View Post
you should rename this to "UB game me free money". i don't see the problem here... it cleary says if you stop playing they will take your money. you got a 1000 bucks for free why is this a problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slevin90 View Post
wtf is this chit? You got 1040 bucks for free and you are crying? Stfu and be glad they gave the money to you and that you could withdraw it without problems.
you guys obviously don't get it.
this post is extremely useful to people who played on UB and may have gotten a refund without UB notifying them of such.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:16 PM   #18
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Quote:
Originally Posted by slevin90 View Post
wtf is this chit? You got 1040 bucks for free and you are crying? Stfu and be glad they gave the money to you and that you could withdraw it without problems.
I think you completely missed the point of this thread. OP never claims to have lost out in this incident. He is also not crying over anything.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:17 PM   #19
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

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Originally Posted by stackers14 View Post
what are you crying about? you got $1040 free...

they closed your account.. big deal

you asked for the money, they gave it to you... big deal

you cashed out without issue... big ****in deal.
I dont know about you but when a thousand dollars appears and suddenly disappears that is a big deal. From what I gather of it he was lucky to have found the e-mail in his spam folder, otherwise he never would've gotten the money. So yeah, pretty big ****ing deal *******.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:17 PM   #20
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

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Originally Posted by bbfg View Post
It makes a difference because it is very likely other people that will read this will find that they have been "scammed" in the same way
I'm not defending UB in anyway. They emailed him, he didn't get it because of spam filter, went back after a long time and UB gave the money back. WTF is he complaining about? The title should read to change the spam filter settings to exclude ub emails.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:18 PM   #21
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibrida View Post
I'm not defending UB in anyway. They emailed him, he didn't get it because of spam filter, went back after a long time and UB gave the money back. WTF is he complaining about? The title should read to change the spam filter settings to exclude ub emails.
Are you serious?
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:20 PM   #22
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

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Originally Posted by WAtR View Post
Are you serious?
Ok fine. OP discovered a new leak in UB system. Add it on to about another couple hundred problems they have over there.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:22 PM   #23
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibrida View Post
I'm not defending UB in anyway. They emailed him, he didn't get it because of spam filter, went back after a long time and UB gave the money back. WTF is he complaining about? The title should read to change the spam filter settings to exclude ub emails.
Where do you see him "complaining"?

He is owed an explanation for why the money is in his account to begin with. The explanation is just as important as the money... for all he knows, the superuser could've stolen $25k. At least if he has confirmation that he was cheated from UB, he can research his own hand histories and records to see if the $1,000 is an accurate sum of compensation.

In addition, this obviously informs others who were in similar positions to check their old UB accounts for unannounced refunds.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:23 PM   #24
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Can we ban above people who flame op?
These are some solid questions that need answering. If OP didn't notice the e-mail and logged in for another reason, he might have never known he had $1040 on there.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:23 PM   #25
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Re: Money Disappears and Reappears In Old UB Account

Nothing to worry about, OP
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