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Old 04-29-2009, 06:28 PM   #176
Skallagrim
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

If there isnt a MN specific letter at the PPA website right now, there will be one shortly (I bet TE has already begun or completed drafting it ).

Remember, this news just broke THIS MORNING - no one had any time to prepare for this directly. Also, if you want to give it a try, go for it. Everyone's help defeating this attack on poker will be appreciated. If you are not a good letter writer and dont want to try, thats OK too. But again, this news isnt even 24 hours old. Full coverage of all bases will take a little time.

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Old 04-29-2009, 06:32 PM   #177
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Sent an email to our ONE seated senator, Ellison, and Pawlenty.....

If you are from MN, get the word out that you can/will base your vote on this issue or that you will leave the state with your tax dollars for greener pastures where income taxes are low (or non-existent) and where they respect your profession.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:34 PM   #178
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
If there isnt a MN specific letter at the PPA website right now, there will be one shortly (I bet TE has already begun or completed drafting it ).

Remember, this news just broke THIS MORNING - no one had any time to prepare for this directly. Also, if you want to give it a try, go for it. Everyone's help defeating this attack on poker will be appreciated. If you are not a good letter writer and dont want to try, thats OK too. But again, this news isnt even 24 hours old. Full coverage of all bases will take a little time.

Skallagrim
Skall,

I totally understand that, and I am certainly not complaining about the PPA's response. I know that this just broke this morning. I thought one of your posts implied there was an auto-letter up for this specific issue. That's all.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:39 PM   #179
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

A far better AP story on this just came out. Read/Digg: http://digg.com/d1pwWp

Minnesota officials are trying a novel tactic to block online gambling sites - using a federal law that enables restrictions on phone calls used for wagering.

The state's Department of Public Safety said Wednesday it had asked 11 Internet service providers to block access to 200 online gambling sites.

The state is citing a federal law that requires "common carriers," a term that mainly applies to phone companies, to comply with requests that they block telecommunications services used for gambling.

But Internet service providers are not common carriers, meaning it's unlikely that a court would compel an ISP to comply with Minnesota's request, said John Morris, general counsel at the Center for Democracy and Technology in Washington.....
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:40 PM   #180
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
The PPA is the members, so I'm not sure what "themselves" means in this context. I think some here assume PPA has hundreds of employees. They don't. I've been in touch with them today and they are going full speed. It's not only press releases and emails. After all, Pawlenty isn't going to call it off just from that. We need grassroots PLUS a credible legal challenge with a broad coalition joining our effort to back of the grassroots efforts, just as we did in Kentucky. So, a lot of today's effort had to go to that.

On top of that, Frank's bill is expected next week, the Texas bill is proceeding, the KY Supreme Court appeal is ongoing, and many other issues are pressing. With this, I think the guys are doing a great job.

Despite this, Pappas did take a moment to post on the progress here on 2+2.


TheEngineer - Are you in favor of a live sit-in type protest in Minneapolis and do you think that would be a good thing? Do you think this is something the PPA should be giving direction on?


Also - "Themselves" means whoever updates the site and/or sends out news-bulletins, etc. I understand they are likely very understaffed and have a lot of coals in the fire currently (and probably always will). But there certainly aren't many releases to their own members about this stuff.

I received a PPA newsletter from them last November. I received some news alert thing from them this past Feb. That's it for the past 6 months. I'm really unimpressed at their attempts to drum up their 'grass-roots' drive. And 'they' should be the ones doing this.

We have a few hundred posters who will see this thread (probably). 'They' have a few zillion e-mail addresses, (and probably real life addresses and phone numbers too?)

I know they have a million-plus members but many of those just signed up through the free tourney on PokerStars or something like that. It's up to the PPA to keep in touch with those members if they want to get them involved in the grass-roots campaign. Most of them are not going to go visiting the PPA site every day or week or read the forums here or this thread.

Many of these people are going to hear about the Minnesota thing but won't do anything about it without being invited to or being told that it's something they should be doing.

The only way I know about this stuff is from NVG on 2+2. If the PPA isn't telling me about it then that means they aren't telling a whole bunch of others in their million-plus base either. That is one reason why I wonder about the PPA's effectiveness. They may just be completely overwhelmed of course.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #181
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by urbanboss View Post
Sent an email to our ONE seated senator, Ellison, and Pawlenty.....
who is Ellison?
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:41 PM   #182
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Fantastic email Engineer.

Please others outside Minnesota can help by voicing their displeasure, and intention to not vote for Pawlenty in any primaries for 2012 Presidency if this does go through.

Thanks all.
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Well written TE.

Thanks! I hope it gets the point across to Pawlenty.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:45 PM   #183
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by PBJaxx View Post
Skall,

I totally understand that, and I am certainly not complaining about the PPA's response. I know that this just broke this morning. I thought one of your posts implied there was an auto-letter up for this specific issue. That's all.
No problem, what my post was meant to imply was that there already is an auto CONTACT feature at the PPA website which will give you the contact information for any MN legislator and can send an e-mail directly to them. But you would still have to compose the letter.

An actual sample letter on this issue hasnt made it there yet, but it will.

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Old 04-29-2009, 06:46 PM   #184
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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It's a good letter overall, however...

I disagree with the 3rd paragraph of Engineer's letter because that practically invites the Governor to say, "well...until legality and regulation within this country/state becomes realistic we'll just keep the blocks."

The 4th paragraph is good and other points about it not being illegal to play in the U.S. anyway could be considered too.
He's already let us know what he thinks of the status quo, so I proposed an alternative to a ban.

If you can post a letter using your ideas, then the other guys here can use aspects of both for their letters.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:48 PM   #185
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by Halstad View Post
who is Ellison?
Keith Ellison
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:49 PM   #186
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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sounds promising to me. Hopefully they are also hard at work contacting various media particularly in Minnesota and setting some interviews and statements and that all of that stuff will be forthcoming.

Personally, I didn't get any e-mail at all and I'm a member of the PPA so that's what surprised me. I checked my spam folder on both of my main e-mail accounts as well.
I don't imagine they will until there's an autoletter to have them send.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:53 PM   #187
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Minnesota's gone after Internet gambling since 1995.

Then there's the following:

http://www.nvo.com/beaulier/minnesotagamblingcrimes/

Quote:
Often, we receive questions regarding the legality of gambling activities. Is it legal to advertise gambling on the Internet? Minnesota law presently prohibits internet gambling. See Minn. Stat. Ann. §§ 609.75 subd. 2 & 5, 609.76 (1987 & Supp. 1998). In fact, the Minnesota Attorney General aggressively targets illegal gambling including online internet gambling establishments. the attorney general has stated that persons outside of Minnesota who transmit information via the Internet knowing that information will be disseminated in Minnesota are subject to jurisdiction in Minnesota courts for violations of state criminal and civil laws. It is also a crime for an entity to "intentionally participate in the income of a gambling place." Minn. Stat.§ 609.76 subd. 1(2). Minnesota law also makes it a crime to the place a bet with a gambling operation. Moreover, any person making a bet is guilty of a misdemeanor. As a result, a Minnesota resident could be charged with a crime for merely making a bet out of curiosity. the law also allows prosecutors to seize the instrument of the crime meaning the bettors computer. Making such a bet may result in a jail sentence of up to 90 days and $1000 fine.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:53 PM   #188
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Keith Ellison
Is he in the Twins farm system?
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:54 PM   #189
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
If there isnt a MN specific letter at the PPA website right now, there will be one shortly (I bet TE has already begun or completed drafting it ).
I sent them mine to use as a baseline if they choose to. I'll help further if they have writers' block. I may have the final edit as well.
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Old 04-29-2009, 06:55 PM   #190
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

The problem with the alternative in your 3rd paragraph is that it's something he won't be enacting any time soon if ever. From his perspective I think it could come off as an additional agenda more than an 'alternative plan'.

I have no interest in attempting to draft an alternative letter. I simply disagree with the strategy you proposed in the 3rd paragraph of your current letter and was pointing out one possible conclusion he might come to on that part. I think it even gives him a reason to push further with the block ("until something is done later to regulate it") instead of just doing away with the attempt to block as we all want of course.

I like the bit about how impossible it has been in KY to get this thing going.

Anyway, I could be completely wrong on the interpretation of it and if you think it's worth pushing that aspect as a strategy then go for it. It's your letter of course. And if others like it and want to use it then that's fine too.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:06 PM   #191
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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TheEngineer - Are you in favor of a live sit-in type protest in Minneapolis and do you think that would be a good thing? Do you think this is something the PPA should be giving direction on?
We had that option in Kentucky. I reviewed it and personally nixed it, partly for some of the reasons you mentioned. In our specific case, we got far better press by taking it to court. Online players who attended the hearing were interviewed afterward and did a great job (one was a sharp 2+2er). The interviewers were more respectful than they would have been at a rally.

The flip side is the Mass. issue where we had a successful rally. It depends on the circumstances, IMO. I'm not sure which the Minn. state director will choose.

Quote:
Also - "Themselves" means whoever updates the site and/or sends out news-bulletins, etc. I understand they are likely very understaffed and have a lot of coals in the fire currently (and probably always will). But there certainly aren't many releases to their own members about this stuff.

I received a PPA newsletter from them last November. I received some news alert thing from them this past Feb. That's it for the past 6 months. I'm really unimpressed at their attempts to drum up their 'grass-roots' drive. And 'they' should be the ones doing this.
My response was specific to today. I wouldn't mind seeing more communication. It's up from two years ago and I certainly don't think it's poor, but more is always better IMO.

In states with action, PPA has been very active. We were sending out a ton of emails in Kentucky. We also called most members and had them call the governor's office. Mass. and other states saw a big push as well. Now that we have a new federal bill coming, I'm hopeful we'll see a big nationwide push.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:30 PM   #192
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

TE,

As a poker player, and resident of MN, I truly appreciate your curiosity on this matter, as well as your letter.

Thanks
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:32 PM   #193
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

post deleted because it's only a political comment and has nothing to do with the Minnesota situation.

Last edited by MicroBob; 04-29-2009 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:33 PM   #194
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
We had that option in Kentucky. I reviewed it and personally nixed it, partly for some of the reasons you mentioned. In our specific case, we got far better press by taking it to court. Online players who attended the hearing were interviewed afterward and did a great job (one was a sharp 2+2er). The interviewers were more respectful than they would have been at a rally.

The flip side is the Mass. issue where we had a successful rally. It depends on the circumstances, IMO. I'm not sure which the Minn. state director will choose.



My response was specific to today. I wouldn't mind seeing more communication. It's up from two years ago and I certainly don't think it's poor, but more is always better IMO.

In states with action, PPA has been very active. We were sending out a ton of emails in Kentucky. We also called most members and had them call the governor's office. Mass. and other states saw a big push as well. Now that we have a new federal bill coming, I'm hopeful we'll see a big nationwide push.
I think it would be good to send out state specific action alerts to all members. It keeps the PPA on people's radar screen, it lets them know what they are doing, and for most of these issues the secondary issues at the very least affect the whole membership. Id like to see some more grassroots efforts as well, but that's a fairly easy improvement IMO.

MA was easier to hold a rally in person because there were multiple rallies surrounding the casino issue.
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:41 PM   #195
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

wow i just saw a story about this on the news from the station in duluth, didn't mention anything new though
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Old 04-29-2009, 07:56 PM   #196
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Has anyone seen the list of websites banned?
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:05 PM   #197
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Where are the privacy advocates? This sounds like a slippery slope.

Isn't internet porn "illegal" too? To my knowledge internet porn sites are not blocked by ISPs.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:10 PM   #198
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
We had that option in Kentucky. I reviewed it and personally nixed it, partly for some of the reasons you mentioned. In our specific case, we got far better press by taking it to court. Online players who attended the hearing were interviewed afterward and did a great job (one was a sharp 2+2er). The interviewers were more respectful than they would have been at a rally.

The flip side is the Mass. issue where we had a successful rally. It depends on the circumstances, IMO. I'm not sure which the Minn. state director will choose.



My response was specific to today. I wouldn't mind seeing more communication. It's up from two years ago and I certainly don't think it's poor, but more is always better IMO.

In states with action, PPA has been very active. We were sending out a ton of emails in Kentucky. We also called most members and had them call the governor's office. Mass. and other states saw a big push as well. Now that we have a new federal bill coming, I'm hopeful we'll see a big nationwide push.

Thanks for your answers. Interesting that you personally nixed any live protest in KY. You're bit about the interviewees working better at a court-house setting than at the rally is appropriate imo.

I don't know if communication is up from 2 years ago with their own base. I would still describe it as 'poor' because the only way for them to be worse would be to not send out anything at all. They are doing a better job updating their own website though which is good.

Interesting that you specifically pushed in KY with the PPA base. I didn't hear anything about that. The PPA would think I'm still in TN since I haven't changed my address with them fwiw and I'm sure there are others who have moved around too.

I would think the grass-roots thing is something you would want from outside the state but I'm not sure. There's always somebody who has a relative there, etc. And I doubt you personally have any problem at all with somebody from outside of Minn sending a letter on this one.

Anyway, I work in publicity for the sports team I'm with and we send out e-mails to those who signed up on our e-news list all the time. I've sent out two this week on our e-news notifications. The last one was to remind them that the deadline was coming up for the special offer allowing them to get a free parking pass if they paid for their season tickets in full.

I'm not that great at that aspect of what I do nor am I terribly organized. But when somebody posts something critical about the PPA the question always comes up, "what more do you want them to do?" I'm always thinking, "well, they could actually communicate with their own members and try to keep them excited and involved and motivated."

1 million people and e-mail addresses right there. The whole 'grass-roots' campaign is staring right in front of the PPA and seems incredibly under-utilized to me.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:16 PM   #199
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Its so funny when politicians try to legislate on things they have no idea about.

This is a complete waste of taxpayer money and I don't mean because its a victimless crime or whatever. I mean because its completely unenforceable.

State government waste their time writing bills, coming up with enforcement guidelines,etc. ISPS waste their money trying to enforce it.

In the end a four year old who knows how to use google can figure out a way around it.

If you want to enforce laws on the internet...prosecute people. You can't be a nanny-state on the internet. Its too open.
Obviously not being fascist is the first reason to not start going down this road(blocking stuff). A close second is that its completely pointless. It looks good on a political resume....thats all.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:50 PM   #200
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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This is a complete waste of taxpayer money and I don't mean because its a victimless crime or whatever. I mean because its completely unenforceable.
This is actually even worse than what you are saying, they aren't trying to enforce it they want ISP's to enforce it. As if it isn't tough enough to stay in business in this economy.
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