Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2009, 05:44 PM   #151
MicroBob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MicroBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 61,580
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSUP4U View Post
People shouldn't be so sensitive imo

I guess I'm not used to how easy it is for people in NVG to get sidetracked since I don't post in here much. Must be annoying for you guys if that's the case. But I see your point if its that hard to keep a thread on topic.

Mark


The post right after yours that I deleted was a response to whether it would have/wouldn't have happened with Ventura, etc.

Basically, this type of, "hey I was just kidding" type of thing in this forum ALWAYS ends up turning into a political side-discussion and spirals to why the Repubs or Demos are all evil and then somebody else comes in and says we all should have voted for Ron Paul instead, etc etc.

It's not a matter of sensitivity really. Somebody makes a joke that somebody else views as factually incorrect and points out some aspect of, "actually....it didn't really happen that way but I understand you were joking."

And THEN it's somebody else coming in to say, "it actually did happen that way" and now we get links and articles and all sorts of nonsense back and forth from politards going crazy at each other.

There are continuing posts about whose fault it is and it just isn't helpful and it always going down that road and sidetracks these kinds of discussions.
MicroBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:45 PM   #152
allskirts
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Internets
Posts: 59
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkmonk View Post
Sludge is a huge poker fan and does commercials for St Croix Casino, also has (had?) a poker show on Monday nights with a couple other guys from the station.
Jason Lewis or Chris Baker on KTLK would be good I think
allskirts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:45 PM   #153
deeshen13
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 174
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

jwc, you are absolutely missing the point.

the question is what percent of people who stand up for individual liberties (including non-poker players) will voice their displeasure to a Gov. who has plans for making a run at 2012.

tim.pawlenty@state.mn.us

Let your voice be heard.

deeshen13
deeshen13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:47 PM   #154
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Subject: Your Internet Censorship Plan

Dear Governor Pawlenty,

I am writing to express my displeasure with your plan to censor the Internet to stop Minnesotans from playing a hand of poker. I ask that you reconsider.

Poker is a proud American tradition. Presidents such as FDR and Harry Truman, Chief Justices such as William Rehnquist and William Howard Taft, members of Congress, generals, and everyday Americans have enjoyed poker for more than 150 years. It is an honorable game that we are all proud to play. It is also a right for which we are willing to stand strong and be heard.

If your main concerns are truly those listed in the DPS press release, I believe you would be better served by supporting sensible, limited regulation at the federal level. After all, the Constitution does give the power to regulate interstate and foreign commerce to the Congress, not to the states. Limited federal regulation and licensing would allow the Congress to mandate rigorous safeguards against underage participation and protections for those with excessive gaming habits while providing consumer protections for the millions of Americans who play online poker every day. Regulation would also allow American gaming companies to participate in the world's Internet gaming market, bringing needed jobs to America. Internet censorship and an unenforceable, unpopular, protectionist prohibition provide none of these benefits. All censorship and prohibition can do is drive players underground or overseas while limiting personal freedoms.

I hope you'll review Gov. Steve Beshear's (D-KY) experience with trying to censor the Internet. When he initiated his crusade against online poker, he thought no one would object. Well, thousands of Kentuckians called and wrote. Additionally, pro-rights groups like the million-member Poker Players Alliance, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the ACLU, and many others stood up for Internet freedom and poker rights. Press was mostly negative, and Beshear did not get what he wanted. He won at the circuit court level, but lost his case at the Kentucky Court of Appeals. He's now appealing to the Kentucky Supreme Court, where even eBay and Network Solutions have filed briefs opposing his unpopular actions. Please see my blog on Townhall.com at http://poker.townhall.com for more details. I hope you will consider this cautionary tale before proceeding further.

What's most important to me is your support. Please respond to this letter and let me know you will change your mind and support liberty. I will be watching your actions on this issue closely and, should you choose to run for national office, will definitely keep them in mind in 2012. I hope that I, along with my over one million fellow Poker Players Alliance members, can count on your support.

Thank you for your consideration.

Rich Muny
Union, KY 41091
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:48 PM   #155
Minneapolis Ace
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 285
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allskirts View Post
Jason Lewis or Chris Baker on KTLK would be good I think
Don't waste your time with Sludge or Lake 'cause no one listens to their show, and they are horrible at poker.
Minneapolis Ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:52 PM   #156
Barrasso
grinder
 
Barrasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fire Chilly Nation
Posts: 697
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Well written TE.
Barrasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:54 PM   #157
deeshen13
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 174
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Fantastic email Engineer.

Please others outside Minnesota can help by voicing their displeasure, and intention to not vote for Pawlenty in any primaries for 2012 Presidency if this does go through.

Thanks all.
deeshen13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:56 PM   #158
thewhackness
centurion
 
thewhackness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Murderapolis, Moneysota
Posts: 189
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy View Post
Seriously.
Where do I enlist? What can I do?
Agree to this. I've emailed my congressmen, anything else I can do?
thewhackness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:57 PM   #159
MicroBob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MicroBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 61,580
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy View Post
MicroBob,

Yes, I do. Is it going to hurt? Any casual poker player hearing about this is a good thing. Wait, your right, alerting a media outlet with the exact target audience is a terrible idea.

You really didn't think through your post, did you?

yes, I thought through it. I don't know the show or the guys but I find it weird that a couple of guys talking about the NFL draft or the Twins or whoever would want to interview somebody about this issue.

I wouldn't envision them talking about this on ESPN Radio or Jim Rome, etc so that's why I thought it was kind of weird to be pushing a show on sportsfan to talk about it. No biggie though but it just seems weird to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 88jayhawks View Post
Bob,

Do you think it would hurt?

Unlike many other people who just want to show up and protest wherever or just get whoever on the air and talk about it I do believe it can hurt if somebody is interviewed who isn't very good at presenting their argument, etc. It probably wouldn't hurt too much but it is possible.

It would be nice to have multiple representatives who were well-spoken about the issues to combat this instead of just brainstorming, "hey, maybe so-and-so on that one station will do a 5 minute interview if we ask."

I think a more organized push should be called for. I think the PPA should be sending articles and press-releases to the various outlets themselves. I'm not convinced they do as good a job of that type of thing as they should. For example, I'm borderline shocked that I haven't received any e-mail from them about this and/or a call to action. I don't think the PPA are completely worthless. But they do seem somewhat disorganized and not as effective as they should be.
MicroBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 05:59 PM   #160
Skallagrim
PPA Board Member/LSN Dir
 
Skallagrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: It's a PPA post only if so stated
Posts: 6,713
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

MicroBob, writing letters to politicians is only a start. A good start, but just a start (And TE has written another excellent letter for all to use). "Lawyering up" is also a start, and I can assure you that has already begun.

But there is indeed so much more that could be done. Letters to the editor, calling radio talk shows, and posting the info around the net is another step. Direct political protest is also a time honored way of getting a message out - perhaps an "online play-in" in front of the MN statehouse? How about calling your ISP providers and telling them you will seek new service if they dont fight this?

This is a creative community, I have no doubt dozens of other good ideas are out there waiting to be posted.

IMHO, this is pretty close to a true "the sky is falling" moment for online poker as there ever has been. Sorry if that urgency is offensive, but this really is that important.

Skallagrim
Skallagrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:02 PM   #161
LeapFrog
Pooh-Bah
 
LeapFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rosetta Stoned
Posts: 5,538
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
This story just came to EVERYBODY's attention today. And Its not your concern for your life or you family that bothered me (quite the contrary, concern for every MN - and US - poker player's life and family is at the heart of my thinking). What bothered me was your response to that concern which I read to be "help me learn how to get around this." Kind of like if MN was going to pass a law making beer illegal and your post was "where do I find information on secret home brewing techniques."
Not the greatest example here. This isn't going to make playing a crime in MN (assuming it isn't currently), right? So all he is doing is looking for a way to circumvent the ban, should it occur and be effective with respect to poker client/server communication.

Also how does asking about the ban and ways to get around it imply that he won't fight it? If I still lived in MN I would be looking into VPN solutions. Its only prudent.

As a lawyer and state director in the PPA you could try addressing the guys legal question. Or you could insult him and refuse to apologize.
LeapFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:03 PM   #162
MicroBob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MicroBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 61,580
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

It's a good letter overall, however...

I disagree with the 3rd paragraph of Engineer's letter because that practically invites the Governor to say, "well...until legality and regulation within this country/state becomes realistic we'll just keep the blocks."

The 4th paragraph is good and other points about it not being illegal to play in the U.S. anyway could be considered too.
MicroBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:05 PM   #163
Skallagrim
PPA Board Member/LSN Dir
 
Skallagrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: It's a PPA post only if so stated
Posts: 6,713
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
.... I think the PPA should be sending articles and press-releases to the various outlets themselves. I'm not convinced they do as good a job of that type of thing as they should. For example, I'm borderline shocked that I haven't received any e-mail from them about this and/or a call to action. I don't think the PPA are completely worthless. But they do seem somewhat disorganized and not as effective as they should be.
PPA has already sent out a press release, others will be forthcoming, as will other PPA efforts. TE has already drafted a letter, there is an auto letter to send at the PPA website, the lawyers have already begun to plan litigation, and PPA members are posting info all over the internet.

How much more should they have done considering that this whole MN ISP blocking effort was first made public THIS MORNING?

Skallagrim
Skallagrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:14 PM   #164
MicroBob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MicroBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 61,580
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

skallagrim - Most people would laugh and mock at a live protest and/or "play-in." I know I would at least. It may be a time-honored tradition in this country but in today's age most people think any such protest is generally just a bunch of nut-jobs and zealots.

Additionally, many live protests don't get much/any coverage in the mainstream media. And frequently when they do it just doesn't look that great.

This is the type of thing that I think the PPA should be putting together and analyzing. What are the pros/cons of doing a live protest? I see many possible cons. I just don't think it's such a great idea to have a few angry people show up and yell a lot but if the PPA disagrees and wants to try to organize such a thing they better make darn sure it's actually effective positively to the cause and doesn't make the poker playing community actually look worse and like a bunch of weirdos.

They would also be wise to alert the media of the protest and invite them to cover it and also have representatives available for interviews and press conferences. What I have seen out of them so far leads me to believe that might be an area at which they don't excel.
MicroBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:14 PM   #165
oldbookguy
veteran
 
oldbookguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,025
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbookguy View Post
Deleting this post. Please keep the political arguments and blame-game stuff out of this thread. Thanks.
Do as you will MB, but it was simply a stated fact, the previous governor after leaving office did do radio ads endorsing online sports betting, specifically (un-named site).

obg
oldbookguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:15 PM   #166
MicroBob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MicroBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 61,580
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
PPA has already sent out a press release, others will be forthcoming, as will other PPA efforts. TE has already drafted a letter, there is an auto letter to send at the PPA website, the lawyers have already begun to plan litigation, and PPA members are posting info all over the internet.

How much more should they have done considering that this whole MN ISP blocking effort was first made public THIS MORNING?

Skallagrim

sounds promising to me. Hopefully they are also hard at work contacting various media particularly in Minnesota and setting some interviews and statements and that all of that stuff will be forthcoming.

Personally, I didn't get any e-mail at all and I'm a member of the PPA so that's what surprised me. I checked my spam folder on both of my main e-mail accounts as well.
MicroBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:19 PM   #167
Skallagrim
PPA Board Member/LSN Dir
 
Skallagrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: It's a PPA post only if so stated
Posts: 6,713
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeapFrog View Post
Not the greatest example here. This isn't going to make playing a crime in MN (assuming it isn't currently), right? So all he is doing is looking for a way to circumvent the ban, should it occur and be effective with respect to poker client/server communication.

Also how does asking about the ban and ways to get around it imply that he won't fight it? If I still lived in MN I would be looking into VPN solutions. Its only prudent.

As a lawyer and state director in the PPA you could try addressing the guys legal question. Or you could insult him and refuse to apologize.
There was no legal question in cheers' original post. There was a series of technical questions on how to get around an ISP block. And I didn't say dont do that, I just was flabbergasted that that was the major concern NOW.

Also, MN demanding that the ISPs block Minnesota resident's access to poker sites is premised on the belief by these MN authorities that internet poker is already illegal in MN - it can't be justified any other way. And that will be fought in court by a**hole lawyers like me. And the decision will be rendered by judges who will definitely have their ears tuned to the politics of the situation. The final result is hardly a sure thing.

Skallagrim
Skallagrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:20 PM   #168
absoludicrous
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
absoludicrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: You like the stache?
Posts: 10,091
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lippy View Post
Abso,

Is it you or someone other MN poster that knows Sludge or Lake or someone at KFAN? Can we get TheEngineer on the radio to talk about what's happening?
My good friend works for KFAN and also runs www.mnpokermag.com. I golfed with him today and he said they will DEFINITELY be making a big deal out of this. Who knows if it will help anything.
absoludicrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:20 PM   #169
PBJaxx
2010 WSOP November 9er
 
PBJaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,329
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Skall,

I didn't see an auto-letter specific to this issue on the PPA's site. Am I missing something or were you referring to their standard support poker letter?

I want to send the specific auto-letter to everyone I know in MN.
PBJaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:22 PM   #170
uppie_
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,673
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

only problem with KFAN is getting it past Abbot. I know he used to get PO'd when they would talk poker on the morning show. But if you can go for it can't hurt. Bumper to Bumper would be the best but anythings better then nothing.

Well if they can make a big deal out it awesome.
uppie_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:22 PM   #171
PBJaxx
2010 WSOP November 9er
 
PBJaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,329
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by absoludicrous View Post
My good friend works for KFAN and also runs www.mnpokermag.com. I golfed with him today and he said they will DEFINITELY be making a big deal out of this. Who knows if it will help anything.
Good news! Let me know if there is anything I can help with. Obviously, I don't know them or anything, but if they take calls during discussion or anything at all.
PBJaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:23 PM   #172
Fur
enthusiast
 
Fur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minnesnowda
Posts: 72
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwc529 View Post
what % of people play online poker though? it will get passed like everything else unfortunately because they'll just have to say children 3 times fast and everyone will roll over, maybe they could link in swine flu too.

(move or use a VPN obv)

People need to understand this is not only just a poker issue but a rights issue. Once they screen us from poker what is next? To the non-players it needs to be pitched this way. If they can take access to poker away why can't they start to take access to other sites away.
Fur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:23 PM   #173
MicroBob
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
MicroBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 61,580
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeapFrog View Post
Also how does asking about the ban and ways to get around it imply that he won't fight it? If I still lived in MN I would be looking into VPN solutions. Its only prudent.

Not only prudent but it also goes to the argument of how pointless/inappropriate it is to attempt to make such blocks in the first place.

Making the argument that pretty much everyone who wants to can still play anyway and that it's SUPER-EASY to do so really helps show how dumb the government is being by trying to enact this stuff.

It's kind of a "you can't even stop this stuff anyway so you might as well not even bother trying" and that is in ADDITION to the argument that it's also not something that should be stopped/blocked in the first place (even if it you could do so completely).
MicroBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:24 PM   #174
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
I think the PPA should be sending articles and press-releases to the various outlets themselves. I'm not convinced they do as good a job of that type of thing as they should. For example, I'm borderline shocked that I haven't received any e-mail from them about this and/or a call to action. I don't think the PPA are completely worthless. But they do seem somewhat disorganized and not as effective as they should be.
The PPA is the members, so I'm not sure what "themselves" means in this context. I think some here assume PPA has hundreds of employees. They don't. I've been in touch with them today and they are going full speed. It's not only press releases and emails. After all, Pawlenty isn't going to call it off just from that. We need grassroots PLUS a credible legal challenge with a broad coalition joining our effort to back of the grassroots efforts, just as we did in Kentucky. So, a lot of today's effort had to go to that.

On top of that, Frank's bill is expected next week, the Texas bill is proceeding, the KY Supreme Court appeal is ongoing, and many other issues are pressing. With this, I think the guys are doing a great job.

Despite this, Pappas did take a moment to post on the progress here on 2+2.
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 06:26 PM   #175
LeapFrog
Pooh-Bah
 
LeapFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rosetta Stoned
Posts: 5,538
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
There was no legal question in cheers' original post. There was a series of technical questions on how to get around an ISP block. And I didn't say dont do that, I just was flabbergasted that that was the major concern NOW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheer View Post
I live in MN and have some questions to clarify the direct impact on us poker players:

1. What is a VPN and has anyone used one to get around a block like this? What is the legality of something like this?

2. Will my account get sized if I try to play?

3. Can I still connect to FTP/Stars without getting frozen access? Is this only for xxxxx.com which means I still can play and access the client to play on?

4. What does this mean for me?
see the above

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
Also, MN demanding that the ISPs block Minnesota resident's access to poker sites is premised on the belief by these MN authorities that internet poker is already illegal in MN - it can't be justified any other way. And that will be fought in court by a**hole lawyers like me. And the decision will be rendered by judges who will definitely have their ears tuned to the politics of the situation. The final result is hardly a sure thing.
Skallagrim
yes, it will be fought. But what happens if the ban is enacted while the fight is going on? I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of the whole process, but this is a possibility I would be prepared for if I was a MN resident.

edit: and yeah it should be cheer's major concern NOW -- first figure out what he can do if it does take place so he can keep earning. THEN take steps to fight. Do letters written to congressmen pay his bills?
LeapFrog is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive