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Old 05-04-2009, 04:50 PM   #451
Rich Muny
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by permafrost View Post
States have had strong anti-gambling business statutes for many decades. They prohibit business unless specifically authorized...like legal lotteries, racing, card rooms, casinos, sports betting, etc. A poker business operating in MN by using the internet is not one of the authorized gambling activities, it’s illegal.

Your claim about MN not having this authority also fails with a quick look at reality…hmmm, legal online poker business available per TE...and none exist? Makes no sense.

Your commerce clause argument might lead to all these state anti-gambling business laws falling, or not. For now, they are in force.

Hey, maybe it’s time to look at getting poker business allowed online in MN?
Obviously Minnesota has a right to regulate instate poker and gaming, so your statement on "strong anti-gambling business statutes" is true. It doesn't follow that the Commerce Clause somehow doesn't apply for interstate gaming.

You're entitled to your opinion, but PPA will fight this.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:54 PM   #452
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by permafrost View Post
This social skill game section says that a game of chance, such as Texas hold’em, can be played if certain regulations are followed...then the game of chance is considered a social skill game.

For Texas hold’em, the social skill game rules include no entry fee, $200/day prize limit, etc.

Does all internet Texas hold’em played in MN follow those rules?

No?

Time to change the rules?
Yes, I read this, but this section does not necessarily mean Texas Hold'em falls under the prior definition of "bet", as I posted earlier. Rather, it clarifies what social gaming is.

Also, Texas Hold'em isn't chance (saying it is in the gaming code doesn't make it true), and we can argue in court that it is a game of skill more properly categorized with pool, etc.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:56 PM   #453
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by Pot Odds RAC View Post
Ok.

At the risk of being called "anti-poker" again, I'm going to try and give a little rational view to something like this.

Some people can drive 200 MPH on a track in a regulated environment with known safeguards. "Trusted" Agencies and Governing Boards ensure that rules are set, enforced, and applied effectively.

...that doesn't mean that anyone can drive 200 MPH anytime and anywhere that they want.
Nor does this give someone like an individual councilperson the authority to personally hang speed limit signs on the interstate. Rather, only a body with power to regulate speed limits can set speed limits.

For online poker (and other interstate commerce), the Constitution gives the Congress this power.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:11 PM   #454
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Nor does this give someone like an individual councilperson the authority to personally hang speed limit signs on the interstate. Rather, only a body with power to regulate speed limits can set speed limits...
Ummm... yeah, each State (or Territory) Sets its own Speed Limits on the Interstate. That is sort of my point.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:33 PM   #455
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Hey, maybe it’s time to look at getting poker business allowed online in MN?
A good first step is to ensure continued availability of online poker. A good second step is a strong show of strength by the power community. A good third step is to seek redress in the courts through challenge of existing law. Seems we're doing the first two and evaluating the third. Did you have something else in mind?
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:33 PM   #456
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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laughing at her reminding me that she supports online internet bans, and then patronizes me with the "keep your thoughts in mind"
I hate her but at least she had the guts to say she holds the opposite view. She could have simply been non-committal in her reply.

By "keeping your thoughts in mind" she means "if this issue looks like it will get me thrown out of office then I might change my stance".

I'm a lifelong democrat but if I had the choice between voting for Lincoln Chafee (former republican senator, RI) and Feinstein as my senator I'd vote for Chafee in a heartbeat. It is really sad that Chafee had to be collateral damage in the fight against the Bush regime but them's the breaks.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:35 PM   #457
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by Pot Odds RAC View Post
Ummm... yeah, each State (or Territory) Sets its own Speed Limits on the Interstate. That is sort of my point.
Yes, that's sort of my point as well. Ummm. The state DOT sets interstate speed limits, not the town council. With interstate online poker, it's the Congress, not the state legislature, and certainly not the town council.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:41 PM   #458
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by funkyj View Post
I hate her but at least she had the guts to say she holds the opposite view. She could have simply been non-committal in her reply.

By "keeping your thoughts in mind" she means "if this issue looks like it will get me thrown out of office then I might change my stance".
Agreed on the guts issue, but your second point is exactly what I mean. She doesn't mean that she will "keep my thoughts in mind" and reevaluate her feelings on the issue after some long introspection. It means she will be open to flip flopping to save her ass.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:10 PM   #459
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Yes, that's sort of my point as well. Ummm. The state DOT sets interstate speed limits, not the town council. With interstate online poker, it's the Congress, not the state legislature, and certainly not the town council.
TE is it the PPA's stance that Washington is violating the Commerce Clause?
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:39 PM   #460
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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TE is it the PPA's stance that Washington is violating the Commerce Clause?
Lee Ruosso's suit included a Commerce Clause argument, as did the KY defense.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:41 PM   #461
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

A Minn. state rep has introduced legislation to prevent the state from ordering ISPs to censor the Internet to block poker sites! Read/digg: http://digg.com/d1qJMF Twitter (pre-filled, takes seconds to send...let's make it go viral!): http://******/wJHR

Thanks!

-------------------------------

By PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune

Last update: May 4, 2009 - 3:48 PM

Rep. Pat Garofalo, R-Farmington, introduced legislation today that would bar the Department of Public Safety from forcing Internet service providers (ISPs) to block access to 200 online gambling Internet gaming sites that the state wants targeted.

The legislation is in response to a letter sent last week from the state Alcohol and Gambling Enforcement Division to 11 ISPs directing them to block the sites. There is no indication yet that any of the ISPs intend to act on the state's behalf.

Minnesota says all online gambling within the state is illegal, even if the games are hosted outside the United States. Operators of these types of sites are most commonly in the United Kingdom and the Caribbean.....
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:53 PM   #462
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
A Minn. state rep has introduced legislation to prevent the state from ordering ISPs to censor the Internet to block poker sites! Read/digg: http://digg.com/d1qJMF Twitter (pre-filled, takes seconds to send...let's make it go viral!): http://******/wJHR

Thanks!
Dugg and Twittered. Everybody do their part please. Thanks TE!
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:44 PM   #463
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

so this means schneids is gonna be at commerce more?

yum yum...

btw i didnt read any of this nor do i plan to
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:51 PM   #464
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Well here is some good news

State's online gambling ban goes too far, legislator says

Rep. Pat Garofalo introduced a bill that if passed would keep Minnesota from enforcing its ban of online gambling. The state "has better things to do," Garofalo said.


http://www.startribune.com/politics/...3aPc:_Yyc:aUUs
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:33 PM   #465
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Thanks for the update and everything your doing Engineer!

Lets keep this ball rolling and stay on them till we are heard!
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Old 05-04-2009, 11:45 PM   #466
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Hey, just read that too. Great news. I really think if the bill doesn't pass this might go away as it is generating unfavorable publicity. Interesting that the bill's sponsor is also a Republican. Hopefully it passes.
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:17 AM   #467
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Called Gov. Pawlenty and John Willems. Dugg, and twittered!

Everyone do your own part!

Call and leave a message for them!
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:05 AM   #468
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Great news! Dugg and twittered.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:13 AM   #469
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the article
"I'm certainly not condoning online gambling," Garofalo said. "But I have serious concerns about government banning access to websites. This is the kind of thing they do in communist China, not the United States of America.
OH SNAP!
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:14 AM   #470
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
"The Department of Public Safety has to have better things to do with their time than to go after a college kid in his dorm room or some guy sitting in his basement spending a couple of hours playing online poker," Garofalo said Monday afternoon. "Demanding that a private-sector Internet service provider block access to websites is not a proper function of our state government."
Spot on.
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:57 PM   #471
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Read/digg: http://digg.com/d1qJMF Twitter (pre-filled, takes seconds to send...let's make it go viral!): http://******/wJHR
This just hit the front page of Digg, yielding us between 10,000 and 30,000 hits on the story. Great job with the tweets and diggs!
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:09 AM   #472
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Nice Engineer!!
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:57 AM   #473
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

TE I'd just like to thank you and the PPA for all that you've done, not just for this particular case, but for online poker in general.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:08 AM   #474
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

this will never pass, the wire act is way to outdated to carry this
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:04 AM   #475
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Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

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Originally Posted by HugoBrasky View Post
TE I'd just like to thank you and the PPA for all that you've done, not just for this particular case, but for online poker in general.
Thanks. I'm glad we're all working together to fight for our rights.
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