Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2009, 10:12 PM   #401
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skallagrim View Post
TE, basically just ... WOW.

I can offer no style improvements, nor suggest a stronger wording on any point.

The only thing I question is the reference to Kentucky. KY is still an ongoing battle, and the political cost to Mullah Beshear is not yet proven at the polls (though I believe it will be). Hence this is the only thing you say that can be reasonably disputed.

I'd listen to what all have to say, but my 2 cents is to drop the reference to Kentucky and MAYBE replace it with a reference to Willems' expressed dismay in the PND interview at the amount of poker players who have called and expressed their opposition.

Skallagrim
Thanks Skall. I appreciate the suggestions.

My intention with the KY issue was more about the amount of litigation on which Pawlenty could plan than the popularity hit. I'll reword it a bit to clarify that and will add info on Willems' statements about us already contacting him.
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 10:18 PM   #402
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
Great letter. How do you ensure it gets past his assistants and into his hands?
He follows me on Twitter, so I'll send him a direct message with the link. He'll know it's out there, especially after I ask all of you to retweet it for me. I'll also post it to both of my blogs and submit it to Digg.

It should wind up as one of the top three items when Googling "Pawlenty" for pages updated within past 24 hours, and in the top three for searching "Pawlenty Internet" with no time frame specified.

I include a copyright notice allowing anyone else to repost it.

I'll also email it and hope it gets past his assistants.
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 10:48 PM   #403
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Here's the update:

An Open Letter to Gov. Tim Pawlenty on the Minnesota Internet Censorship Plan

Dear Governor Pawlenty,

I am writing to express my displeasure with your state's plan to censor the Internet to stop Minnesotans from playing a hand of poker in the comfort of their own home. I ask that you stand up for Internet freedom.

While this action may have been initiated by John Willems, Director of the Minnesota Department of Public Safety's Alcohol and Gambling Enforcement Division (a department that is under DFL Secretary of State Mark Ritchie), it is yours now. You are the chief executive of your state and you clearly have the authority to stop this if you choose to. At a minimum, you can have the attorney general review it for legality or challenge it in court yourself. You can also speak out against it. If you choose to remain silent on the issue and refuse to act, Americans will (rightly) take this as your tacit authorization of a very unpopular censorship action. It will surely be remembered in 2012 if you choose to run for national office.

You have ample reason to stop this on purely legal grounds. Here are a few:
  • Many sites on the block order do not accept U.S. customers. As such, Minnesota cannot make a Wire Act claim for a block of such sites. Minnesota will just be blocking free speech. You can and should rescind the entire blocking order as a clear violation of the First Amendment protections of free speech.
  • The Wire Act has never been held to apply to anything but interstate sports betting. The state of Minnesota will be in for a long, expensive, and potentially losing court battle to get this definition expanded judicially.
  • Blocks by Minnesota would likely result in inadvertent blocking to residents of neighboring states. Other states may not wish for the Minnesota government nanny to "protect" their citizens from freedom.
  • The block order includes sites that offer only poker. However, games of skill like poker are likely not "gambling" as defined by Minnesota law. From your own state's website: "What about games of skill? If the activity is a game of skill, then criminal penalties don't apply. Skill activities might include darts, bowling and pool tournaments." Perhaps the State Attorney General's Office believes Texas Hold'em and other poker games are not included, but Minnesota will have to prove this in court, where poker has recently won several rulings in states with similar laws on skill vs. chance. Again, you may find yourself in for a long, expensive, and potentially losing court battle.
  • The block order irresponsibly threatened players' funds. Minnesota has made no allegations that players are breaking any state or federal laws, so this misleading and inaccurate scaremongering is reason enough to rescind the entire blocking order.
  • Kentucky Governor Steve Beshear tried to censor the Internet for online poker and gaming, too. When he initiated his protectionist crusade, he thought no one would object. Well, besides the thousands of Kentuckians who called and wrote, pro-rights groups like the million-member Poker Players Alliance, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the ACLU, and many others fought for Internet freedom -- in court. Beshear won at the circuit court level, but lost his case at the Kentucky Court of Appeals. He's now appealing to the Kentucky Supreme Court, where even eBay and Network Solutions have filed briefs opposing his unpopular actions. At least Beshear did this with a contingency-fee only law firm. Under Minnesota's plan, taxpayers will be required to foot the bill for this very expensive (and likely unpopular) effort.
  • Willems expressed surprise at the volume of calls from poker players. However, those calls were generated from word-of-mouth only. Willems should expect many more calls from people who care about their freedoms as news of this plan gets out. Willems also said, "if (poker players) want to make their case, they should also do so to the state’s policy makers." Well, the Poker Players Alliance does not believe the state policy makers appointed Willems as the Minnesota Internet Czar. PPA stated that the state's plan was based on "a clear misrepresentation of federal law, as well as Minnesota law, used in an unprecedented way to try and censor the Internet." They went on to declare that they are "calling (Minnesota's) bluff." In Kentucky, that meant court action.
What's most important to me is your support for freedom. Please respond to this letter and let me know you will change your mind and support liberty. I will be watching your actions on this issue closely and, should you choose to run for national office, will definitely keep them in mind in 2012. I hope that I -- along with my over one million fellow Poker Players Alliance members -- can count on your support.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Rich Muny
Union, KY 41091
www.twitter.com/TheEngineer2008
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:25 PM   #404
Machine Bid
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 91
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

You write good
Machine Bid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:46 PM   #405
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machine Bid View Post
You write good
Thanks!
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:47 PM   #406
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Here's the update:

An Open Letter to Gov. Tim Pawlenty on the Minnesota Internet Censorship Plan

Dear Governor Pawlenty,

I am writing to .....
Done!

Read/digg at http://digg.com/d1q7a9
Click here to Twitter (comment autopopulated....just click and you're done)

Last edited by Rich Muny; 05-01-2009 at 11:58 PM.
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:50 PM   #407
RikaKazak
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,658
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

unrelated political hijack joke deleted

Last edited by MicroBob; 05-03-2009 at 03:07 AM.
RikaKazak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2009, 11:58 PM   #408
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

I updated both of my blogs, at http://www.campaignforliberty.com/user/TheEngineer/ and http://poker.townhall.com .
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 12:45 AM   #409
absoludicrous
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
absoludicrous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: You like the stache?
Posts: 10,091
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RikaKazak View Post
deleted
response deleted

Last edited by MicroBob; 05-03-2009 at 03:08 AM.
absoludicrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 02:41 AM   #410
MrFizzbin
old hand
 
MrFizzbin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mostly Harmless.....
Posts: 1,442
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob View Post
MrFizzbin - Are you sure your take on it is correct? I thought it was blocked in other places too (like Italy perhaps?) but that it was relatively straight-forward to get around it by ISP masking or VPN or whatever. standard disclaimer that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about of course. Maybe it's a lot more complicated than what I had heard.

And fwiw I think this is a VERY important discussion to have right now. Will blocking the sites in Minnesota just make it more cumbersome to play (and cash out I assume) with a couple extra steps in there to get around the block? Or will it really make it much closer to impossible to play there?
Ironically there is some anaonomyzer software(connecting to the internet using spoofing and open routers over a secure connection) funded by the US government under voice of america and created by members of the Fulong Gong (sp phonetically its late) for use in countries like China, Iran, North Korea and Saudi Arabia to circumvent national firewalls used by autocratic regimes preventing the free exchange of ideas on the internet.

It would be interesting to see if that software could be enhanced to circumvent the horrible draconian regimes in Minnesota and Kentucky.

BTW congats to Minnesota and Kentucky on being in the same company as North Korea, China, Iran and Saudi Arabia when it comes to open minded thinking... Well done

I would also like to see an update on the Austraila banaments as well
MrFizzbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 02:52 AM   #411
MrFizzbin
old hand
 
MrFizzbin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mostly Harmless.....
Posts: 1,442
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

unrelated political hijack response deleted.

Last edited by MicroBob; 05-03-2009 at 03:08 AM.
MrFizzbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 03:19 AM   #412
Machine Bid
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 91
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

It's not about poker. It's about a violation of the Constitution
Machine Bid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 09:49 AM   #413
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFizzbin View Post
Lets see, first 100 days, Cleaning up 2 wars, Fix the meltdown of the banking industry, try to save 2 of the largest manufacturing employers in the US (GM & Chrysler) despite decades of mismanagement, Swine Flu drama, retiring supreme court justice, trying to get a National Health care system, and deal with impending melt down of social security, North Korea threatening Nuclear Tests, Pakistan meltingdown and the possibility putting their nukes in the hands of Al-Queda....

Gee why isn't poker at the top his list CLEARLY thats more important than anything above....

real LOL Give Alfonse a call at the PPA and tell HIM to get off his fat behind and get things moving or he'll have to get a real job.

The government of MN put it at the top of their list. The political diatribes shouldn't be in this thread.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 11:43 AM   #414
Rich Muny
Former PPA President
 
Rich Muny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 28,003
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Can you all give me a hand promoting the letter (if you like it)?:

Last edited by Rich Muny; 05-02-2009 at 11:57 AM.
Rich Muny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 11:50 AM   #415
KB24
veteran
 
KB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,465
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

unrelated political hijack response deleted

Last edited by MicroBob; 05-03-2009 at 03:03 AM.
KB24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 11:53 AM   #416
gopherhoky
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 215
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Engineer,
As a Minnesotan and a poker player...THANKS for all your support and effort on this issue. You Da Man !!!!!
gopherhoky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 12:30 PM   #417
MrFizzbin
old hand
 
MrFizzbin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mostly Harmless.....
Posts: 1,442
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder View Post
The government of MN put it at the top of their list. The political diatribes shouldn't be in this thread.
wasn't a diatribe, it was an explanation of why the UIGEA repeal isnt top on the list.

Your right Minnesota did put this on the top of their list, instead of matters like
Fixing bridges, selecting a senator, balancing their budget... Instead they chose to piss off the electorate and get into a legal battle that will for what will amount to a pyrrhic victory at best and consume resources that could be better spent elsewhere
MrFizzbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 01:05 PM   #418
spadebidder
Actually Shows Proof
 
spadebidder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: This looks interesting.
Posts: 7,906
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFizzbin View Post
wasn't a diatribe, it was an explanation of why the UIGEA repeal isnt top on the list.

Your right Minnesota did put this on the top of their list, instead of matters like
Fixing bridges, selecting a senator, balancing their budget... Instead they chose to piss off the electorate and get into a legal battle that will for what will amount to a pyrrhic victory at best and consume resources that could be better spent elsewhere
Now we agree, but I don't think they'll win this in court.
spadebidder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 01:06 PM   #419
GeniusToad
veteran
 
GeniusToad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sleeve of wizard
Posts: 2,008
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

political hijack response deleted

Last edited by MicroBob; 05-03-2009 at 03:01 AM.
GeniusToad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 01:26 PM   #420
PBJaxx
2010 WSOP November 9er
 
PBJaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,329
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Can you all give me a hand promoting the letter (if you like it)?:
Please digg and twitter this! It takes 1 min tops.

If you are really ambitious, email the letter to Pawlenty too.

Thanks!
PBJaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 01:56 PM   #421
Paul77
centurion
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 185
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Hi gang,

Just my two cents. I've played at Canterbury since 2001, and now frequent both Canterbury and Running Aces though the latter more often as they have aces cracked every weekday and give me $10 just for playing an hour twice a month. That's not an ad, I just love promos.

I really don't think this comes down to a Pawlenty or GOP thing. I do lean to the right, and some in the GOP don't like gambling. But the truth is here in MN, all of the tribal cash for lobbying goes to the DFL. This is why they have a tax-free monopoly and why Canterbury never gets a racino. Cash talks. In Wisconsin, I believe it was the other way around. Doyle, a Dem, expanded gambling by giving the green light for craps and roulette at tribal casinos. So it varies state to state. Inside the parties, you have Frank who is for legalization, but Pelosi and Reed are not, at least that is what I heard on Lou Krieger's last podcast; Ron Paul is very much for it too I believe, but others in the GOP aren't. I think it's a mix, and I hope it is legalized.

As for our unfortunate situation here, my instinct is that this is some guy trying to make a name for himself. He may have gotten a call from a casino or Canterbury or Running Aces people; I'm not sure. It is sad that there was no warning, no bills being talked about this session on the matter, and my gut is that it will fail in court; or the ISPs could ignore it, have the state complain to the FCC who may very well do nothing or not care. You have other cases that were unsuccessful, so I really think this will get shot down in court.

I play online at Stars for .25/.50 and .50/1, and 3 or 5/6 dollar SNGs, and when I can't go to Canterbury like to play for an hour before bed. Many evenings are busy for me. But I do enjoy playing more than once a week, and also like the small tournaments; you just can't play in a five dollar SNG at a regular card room. Live is my preference, but like many I also enjoy online too and I hope this fails. I think it will; we'll have to see how the Kentucky appeal goes.

Paul
Paul77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 02:58 PM   #422
Joe_Nathan1
enthusiast
 
Joe_Nathan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 76
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

I found a massive ray of hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cdt.org/speech/030200pennreport.pdf

This is some information on what happened in 2002 when the state of Penn. tried to force isp's to block certain porn sites. Scroll down to part c which is on page 6 and take a look at what happens when isp's try to censor websites. From what I read, it can't be done (effectively). This tells me that multi state isp's will not implement the requests of John W.
Joe_Nathan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 04:13 PM   #423
Halstad
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Halstad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,561
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEngineer View Post
Can you all give me a hand promoting the letter (if you like it)?:
I had a question about Twitter earlier and honest to god I still have no idea what I'm doing when I go there, but I always go to the site and hit update. So I'm pretty sure I'm helping, like someone said it takes 1 minutes tops (not even). Is there a way to check all the messages t-paw is getting?
Halstad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 04:21 PM   #424
drunkmonk
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesnowta
Posts: 41
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Nathan1 View Post
I found a massive ray of hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cdt.org/speech/030200pennreport.pdf

This is some information on what happened in 2002 when the state of Penn. tried to force isp's to block certain porn sites. Scroll down to part c which is on page 6 and take a look at what happens when isp's try to censor websites. From what I read, it can't be done (effectively). This tells me that multi state isp's will not implement the requests of John W.
Cool link, thanks.

I'm feeling better about this every day.
drunkmonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2009, 04:22 PM   #425
JasonInDallas
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Foothills
Posts: 6,899
Re: Minnesota to Prohibit Access Between Residents and Gambling Sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fur View Post
Just another reason to move to Texas.
Texas is the heart of The Bible Belt and largely populated by extreme right wingers. Even the poor vote Republican here. You can't even buy a bottle of liquor on Sunday. We sentence sex offenders for longer prision terms than murderers here.

Anyhow, you guys couldn't possibly have believed the gravy train of Internet poker would contuinue in the USA forever, did you? Being able to play poker on the net will end up being a brief blip in US history, mark my words. I know most of you guys are young and the decade we've had online poker seems like forever, but it's not and the Internet is still the Wild West and eventually it will get sorted and regulated and choked like everything else. I promise.
JasonInDallas is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive