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Old 10-03-2019, 06:23 AM   #1651
Halo_P1
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
I would like to see the calculations you performed to draw this conclusion. Please post.
https://wizardofodds.com/online-gamb...bsolute-poker/

https://books.google.ie/books?id=RaI...llions&f=false

Odds of potripper winning were 1 in 6.6 trillion according to this. I believe the odds of winning the lottery six times were for the 6/49 lottery not Powerball, which was merely 3 times in a row.
Also on page 100 of this “Gambling and Crime” when doing a Google Scholar search they have it estimated at winning 3 powerballs in three consequetive days for potripper alone. And Mike makes potripper look like an actual fish so don’t be quick to just discredit someone as uninformed, Mike’s winrate is several standard deviations beyond Potripper. I’m not going to post something without actually having read it somewhere.
I would like to see where you draw your assumptions that people posting statistical anomalies must not know what they are talking about. Please post.

Last edited by Halo_P1; 10-03-2019 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:27 AM   #1652
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
Why does Mike continue to insist he just found out about the investigation a few days ago and had no previous knowledge of it???

Why wouldn't they have tried to catch Mike in the act??
This is what i was saying in your stream. Whoever was told to investigate mike may be as guilty as he is. The easiest thing to do would have been to catch him in the act. If they couldn't then look over the tapes but clearly with how cocky he was it should have been so easy to catch him in the act. Its almost like they didn't want to catch him in the act....
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:30 AM   #1653
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Concur with others that the 84hh was absolutely disgusting.

For anyone that has watched many streams or just a lot of Joey’s 3 videos, does Postle lose many hands that he could have won? That is, is he winning every or almost every hand that he should win by knowing his opponent’s cards?

When he sees a flop, does he ever fold when he is either ahead or has decent equity assuming he gets a runout to the best hand, or at least to a spot where he knows his bluff cannot get called?

On a scale of 0-100, how greedy is he or how stupid is he to not try to mask his cheating somewhat?
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:38 AM   #1654
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr View Post
Concur with others that the 84hh was absolutely disgusting.

For anyone that has watched many streams or just a lot of Joey’s 3 videos, does Postle lose many hands that he could have won? That is, is he winning every or almost every hand that he should win by knowing his opponent’s cards?

When he sees a flop, does he ever fold when he’s either good or has decent equity assuming he gets a runout to the best hand, or at least to a spot where he knows his bluff cannot get called?
Not only does he win every hand he can, he gets the most value he can in every spot. Making sucker bets on the river when opponent has nth pair, blasting pot or more when opponent has a monster.

He also loses nearly the minimum in every spot, only ever putting money in behind when it would be beyond ridiculous not to. Despite that he still makes some insane hero folds (eg. the hand near the end of joe ingram's latest stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzL4uf6qlao -- can't get the timestamp since it hasn't finished processing yet -- postle raise/4bets AdAx, gets 3b/called by Kd3d, folds to half pot bet on river when flush comes in despite having nfd blocker and board being 9 high in a 4bet pot)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr View Post
On a scale of 0-100, how greedy is he or how stupid is he to not try to mask his cheating somewhat?
100. I think ego played a role too. He probably loved all the commentators gushing over his sick reads. If I was going to cheat I would not want the stream commentators calling me a soul reader in front of all the viewers.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:41 AM   #1655
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That AdAx hand is just so obv superusing it's unbelievable. Nobody ever would fold the river there wtf man.Lock him up and throw away the key!
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:41 AM   #1656
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lvprof View Post
This is what i was saying in your stream. Whoever was told to investigate mike may be as guilty as he is. The easiest thing to do would have been to catch him in the act. If they couldn't then look over the tapes but clearly with how cocky he was it should have been so easy to catch him in the act. Its almost like they didn't want to catch him in the act....
The most interesting thing to watch on the casino cameras would be what the floor/stream staff is doing during the games
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:42 AM   #1657
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
stop being an idiot, the guy pulled a name out of a hat as an example of what the defense attorney might say. hes shedding light on the legal process for us

appreciate the info Badreg2017
**** my bad BobbyPeru, I thought you were yelling at the lawyer giving info. guess im tired, sorry.

ES2, I think running hot in tournaments is completely different than what Mike has done here. winning multiple tourneys can easily be explained by variance, what Mike has done cannot. also, i think a point could be made that he never got super lucky in any particular hand, he played a style that can only be explained by him having perfect information. also, the patterns that hes a god when he has his phone in his left hand, repeatedly looking down and adjusting his hat, but his insane plays mysteriously disapear when hes not doing those things
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:47 AM   #1658
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Halo_P1 View Post
If either of them have half a brain (and that is not sarcasm, its a legitimate if), both their phones are smashed and far down a river at this point.
if you had half a brain you'd realize that smashing a phone doesn't delete the network provider's log of your calls, text messages, and internet usage

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Has anyone contacted the California Gaming Commission?
this is really the only important question left itt
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:50 AM   #1659
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I played on the stream game against Mike Postle a few times and wanted to chime in. When Veronica invited me to play in the game for the first time (little over a year ago) she hyped it up about how it played wild & crazy and nothing like a traditional 1/3. To see this all unfold as it has is absolutely insane. I feel so dumb for not seeing this clearly earlier on having been in the game 4 or 5 times. Hope Joey does are more of these late night session reviews, better than any tv show or movie I have ever seen!
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:51 AM   #1660
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.cardschat.com/news/stone...cheating-84654

Nice story in cardschat summarising the whole thing. Only thing that has changed is Moneymaker is no longer supporting Mike Postle in the same way, which is a big deal.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:52 AM   #1661
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr View Post
Concur with others that the 84hh was absolutely disgusting.

For anyone that has watched many streams or just a lot of Joey’s 3 videos, does Postle lose many hands that he could have won? That is, is he winning every or almost every hand that he should win by knowing his opponent’s cards?

When he sees a flop, does he ever fold when he is either ahead or has decent equity assuming he gets a runout to the best hand, or at least to a spot where he knows his bluff cannot get called?
Basically no.

I think I found the most preposterous hand that shows 100% cheating.

https://youtu.be/DNIrr-Lkau8?t=9971

Bomb pot



Flop checks through.

Turn checks to Mike who bets $150. 2 calls. Guy c/r w/ J3 and Mike 3bets to $1.1k.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:54 AM   #1662
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PerDoom View Post
Basically no.

I think I found the most preposterous hand that shows 100% cheating.

https://youtu.be/DNIrr-Lkau8?t=9971

Bomb pot



Flop checks through.

Turn checks to Mike who bets $150. 2 calls. Guy c/r w/ J3 and Mike 3bets to $1.1k.
This one's a smoking gun for me. J10 has 0% equity there vs ton of hands.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:02 AM   #1663
Halo_P1
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
if you had half a brain you'd realize that smashing a phone doesn't delete the network provider's log of your calls, text messages, and internet usage
Yes but it prevents any uninstalled applications, recoverable deleted text messages (actual files not logs) being found.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:05 AM   #1664
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

thank god this guy is so big of a whale he thinks good/solid poker means he needs to win every hand when he's ahead and has no clue about how real poker hands play out.

it would be very damaging for the players if anyone over 70iq could superuse a game this soft and they would never found out they got cheated.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:13 AM   #1665
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That 8 4 hand is crazy and It might not even be the worst! Every time I watch a stream the hands just look worse and worse.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:13 AM   #1666
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Has anyone reached out to Scott Moskowitz (@TheHopGrenadeor) or Chris Glasgow (@Mastac707) who are two regular commentors? Scott just praises Mike Postle at every opportunity and seems to regularly comment on these streams for over a year.

Last edited by PerDoom; 10-03-2019 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:15 AM   #1667
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Cliffs?
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:19 AM   #1668
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcrazylegsX View Post
Preflop mike calls with 87o (nothing out of the ordinary here), but then proceeds to press down on his hat with both hands. The preflop raiser (whose cards are not read by the RFID reader in this hand) cbets 4 ways and Mike calls, and proceeds to press down on his hat with both hands again. I watched this whole stream and not once until now did I see him do this with his hat, and now he does it twice within 40 seconds??? On the turn 3 ways, it checks to Mike, who places each of his cards on the RFID reader, points to each of them, and says something to the dealer. Keep in mind that the RFID has not picked up his opponent's cards. It seems to me like he's trying to remind the guy that his cards need to go on the reader. Really suspicious stuff here. Here is the link to the hand in question:
https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=14040
His actions after his river bet are interesting too. Looks behind him, fiddles with his lap, and dips his head down one last time, as if he wants one more attempt to scan his opponent's cards.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:20 AM   #1669
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrno1324 View Post
Cliffs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragglerock45 View Post
https://www.cardschat.com/news/stone...cheating-84654

Nice story in cardschat summarising the whole thing. Only thing that has changed is Moneymaker is no longer supporting Mike Postle in the same way, which is a big deal.
This
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:22 AM   #1670
JoeShowdown
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://youtu.be/U5cgXtVRLR4
March 2, 2017 stones spring classic
Tournament director is Justin
Mike Postle in seat 1 wearing hat
He wins 1st place for 36k after a deal with Kerry Kiefer
who is a poker floorman at thunder valley casino 20 minutes away.
Begins final table 5th out of 9
Commentary by justin kelly aka fat train and legendary Norman Chad
Ducky is playing aka Alisha's husband from the stream when she dances in her bday game and uses her high heel as a card protector.
Mario Lopez and Rickey Evans are local crushers.
4:15 Mike gets introduced
13min gets a walk
14:30 wins flip open jams 44 vs ace 7

Could be interesting video to go thru
https://youtu.be/U5cgXtVRLR4
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:23 AM   #1671
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrno1324 View Post
Cliffs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaMiKazE View Post
Summary thus far:

Thesis - Mike Postle was using technology and/or a partner or partners to gain access to opponents hole cards in real time.

Evidence -

HANDS PLAYED IN A VACUUM - At this point there are too many hands to count in which Postle played his hands perfectly or close to perfectly given his opponents exact holdings. Many of these plays have been analyzed by individuals in this thread, Joey Ingram and others on Youtube, and by high level pros such as Matt Berkey, Scott Seiver, and Haralobos Voulgaris. All of the above mentioned pros and the vast majority of individuals in this thread have concluded that his play style strongly suggests he has access to his opponents hole cards,

HANDS PLAYED INCONSISTENTLY - This is related to point one, but should be made separately as it is important to note that not only is he playing these hands optimally in a vacuum against opponents specific cards, but that in doing so it led to him taking wildly different lines in similar spots across different sessions. Although his lines differed considerably when he faced similar spots, he was nearly 100% accurate with his decisions, particularly on the river.

POSTURE DURING HANDS - THE CROTCH ARGUMENT - The above two lines of evidence have been rebutted by Postle supporters and Postle himself on his Twitter by arguing that he has an ability to read players that allows him to play a high VPIP style and consistently make correct decisions based on his live reads. This argument becomes problematic when reviewing the film. Postle has a very consistent posture present throughout most hands in which he is simply staring straight down into his crotch, barely paying attention to the other player. This is an odd posture to begin with, but when you consider that he actually has a phone in his left hand that is in his crotch, it becomes clear that he is actually staring at his phone. Why would he just stare down at his phone in the middle of a hand? Postle himself addressed this briefly in a tweet talking about how he and others would watch the stream on their phones. When taken together with all of the other evidence, many believe he was using his phone to gain access to opponents hole cards. It should also be noted here with posture that he consistently sits close to the table, keeps his left arm under the table holding his phone even when gathering chips many times. He is very careful not to let anyone see his phone. Perhaps the most damning problem with his posture on film is that it serves to rebut Postle’s argument that he is live reading his opponents. He is barely looking at them, while mostly staring down at his phone.

HIS RESULTS - I don’t know that anyone has actually compiled his overall VPIP or any other stats aside from winnings, but the winnings are insane. They were posted by Joey on his Twitter last night. I’ll summarize here. These numbers are from 2018. +93.2k overall in 21 sessions. Joey does note he had two losing sessions. Playing ⅓ he logged 52 hours over 13 sessions and profited 36.12k for a nearly $700/hr winrate. He played 13 sessions at that level and never lost once. At 5/5 he played 64 hours over 16 sessions and profited 56.8k for an almost $890/hr winrate. He had one losing session out of 16. So out of 29 sessions total at these levels he had one losing session and profited 93k for a total winrate of $800/hr.

RFID WEIRDNESS - CHANGING POSTLE’S CARDS - There are multiple instances of hands where somehow Postle and/or Stones claims that Postle had different cards than what was shown on stream. One point of view is that these changes were fabricated to make Postle’s play seem less suspicious. Arguments from Postle and supporters state that RFID errors occur frequently on the Stones stream. This topic is still up in the air as there have been multiple posters in this thread that have indicated that they played on the stream and can verify that their holecards were wrong in certain hands. Further, there is a screenshot of a hand where the Jd is in Postle’s hand and also on the board, providing clear evidence of some kind of error.

POSTLE ONLY PLAYS IN THE STREAMED GAMES - This issue is also a bit murky as posts have come in indicating both ways, but some have stated that Postle racks up after the stream ends and does not play off stream or does so rarely. Others have come in to state they have played with Postle for years and that he does play off stream and there was even a claim that he was a good online player back in the day. I don’t know that any conclusions can be drawn here just yet.

THE BREAK - This is the newest piece of evidence to come to light. According to Veronika’s (original accuser) twitter, Postle took an unusual break during this summer where he played very few streams. This wouldn’t mean much except for the role it plays in one of the biggest questions surrounding this - If he cheated, did he have a partner and, if so, who was it? Many have speculated that the individual in charge of the Stones livestream was involved as he would be someone with access to the realtime RFID feed. It just so happens that this individual left to attend the WSOP during the times where Postle took his break.

CONCLUSION - The vast majority of people who have looked at this evidence have concluded he cheated, most likely by being sent opponents exact hole cards. Most seem to agree he had a partner and did not know what cards would come out on any street. Most favor that he knew exact hole cards rather than just being ahead or behind but some do support the latter theory.

There might be some stuff I missed but this will generally catch you up. Cheers.
I can specify that Mike does not know board run outs, he knows exact holecards. Since these cliffs there has been found that a second method of cheating (1st method being phone feed) has been used, he has had a bone-conductive headphone set hidden in his hat, in order to not be using phone to cheat. Though the majority of the cheating has been done via phone. Also, the evidence implicating Justin K, the employee of the Casino who went to Vegas during summer, are mounting.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:24 AM   #1672
DonkeyFishFight
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coach999 View Post
That AdAx hand is just so obv superusing it's unbelievable. Nobody ever would fold the river there wtf man.Lock him up and throw away the key!
Here it is: https://youtu.be/QzL4uf6qlao?t=6777
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:24 AM   #1673
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Absolutely cheating - everybody is obsessed with the “weird” hands he played but what convinced me was that he never made the huge bluffs against anything where a bad player might have called him - opponents had air / busted draws 100% of the time.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:27 AM   #1674
enzet
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerDoom View Post
Has anyone reached out to Scott Moskowitz (@TheHopGrenadeor) or Chris Glasgow (@Mastac707) who are two regular commentors? Scott just praises Mike Postle at every opportunity and seems to regularly comment on these streams for over a year.
i don't think either of them understand any poker, they're just praising a guy who seems to make good decisions vs the hands they see on the screen.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:29 AM   #1675
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shhh View Post
Absolutely cheating - everybody is obsessed with the “weird” hands he played but what convinced me was that he never made the huge bluffs against anything where a bad player might have called him - opponents had air / busted draws 100% of the time.
Happened like twice in the like 15 hours of hands Joey went through, where somebody lost their mind and made an insane hero call.
Still he did everything right/cheaty just happened to bluff someone who gave zero Fs

Bluffed with like A3 vs A9 where A9 was good
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