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Old 10-03-2019, 05:08 AM   #1626
Badreg2017
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Abortion View Post
Hmmm very interesting... Is there a possibility something like could go to court or trial? If so, who would need to file something against Postle? Also if something like this were to go to court, is it possible to supoena Postle's text or call transcripts because it is fairly obvious that he is working with someone else.
I’m going to start with a huge caveat that even though I was an attorney this is not my area of expertise and I defer to anyone who has more experience.

Yes it’s possible that this could go to trial as a civil or criminal case. If it’s a civil case, anyone who has suffered damages could bring a case if they can find a legal mechanism to do so. Breach of contract could constitute one possible legal theory for recovery for the players. When Ivy cheated the Bogota for instance, the court found that Ivy’s cheating constituted a breach against the Borgotta.

The casino could sue on the same grounds or maybe that Postle’s action will hurt the casino’s reputation and cost them business.

If the casino was negligent in running the game and hired known cheaters etc, then the players could possibly recover against the casino. These three are just examples and I’m not saying I know for sure if they are legally valid.

Criminal prosecution is possible but I don’t know what statute he would have violated. I’m sure there is some kind of anti-cheating law. Ivy violated some law called something like the NJ gambling control act for instance.

To answer your last question, there is something in law known as discovery where you submit requests for documents relevant to the case and I would imagine they would be able to get the documents you mentioned but again I’m not sure.

It should go without saying, but to anyone reading this, please don’t decide to sue anyone because of what I just wrote, go to a licensed attorney who knows what they are talking about. I’m not even licensed these days.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 10-03-2019 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:08 AM   #1627
mukdukaluk
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by elendil200 View Post
People are mostly idiots who will loyally support their perceived allies regardless of the damming evidence against them.

You ever seen the mother of a volient crimal being interviewed after there is diffinitive proof of his crimes? "He has always been a good boy, he couldnt hurt a fly" Same dynamic.
+1. Probably just a friend who is stubborn. Most people are. Every poker scandal there are always like 10 Twitter handles constantly defending these people against all logic etc
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:09 AM   #1628
DonWon
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comme..****e_right_now/

razeyourshadows
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Not sure if that six figure of money from scamming is gonna do him good seeing how lawsuits are going to visit him not to mention the whales that have connection to mafia would also want to get back a piece.



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Yeah, except he is gonna get TURBO****ED by gaming commission, civil lawsuits, bad press, blacklisted from every casino in the ****ing world... I don't think he is having a good day today. The rest of his life is officially over.



He can still play on ACR!
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:13 AM   #1629
XcrazylegsX
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

So I was looking through streams in which Justin Kuraitis was commentating. I found roughly 15 total streams, and only one of them had Mike in it. So I decided to take a look, and I found something very intriguing.

Throughout the whole episode, I didn't find a single example where I thought Mike was clearly cheating based on his play.

I figured Justin would be in the booth for the entire stream, but to my surprise he dips out of the commentary booth from 3:22:00 to 3:48:00.
Justin leaves: https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=12120
Justin returns: https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=13680

I continued to watch the hands for anything suspicious, and something very interesting happens in a hand that takes place at the 3:54:00 mark (32 minutes after Justin leaves the commentary booth).

Preflop mike calls with 87o (nothing out of the ordinary here), but then proceeds to press down on his hat with both hands. The preflop raiser (whose cards are not read by the RFID reader in this hand) cbets 4 ways and Mike calls, and proceeds to press down on his hat with both hands again. I watched this whole stream and not once until now did I see him do this with his hat, and now he does it twice within 40 seconds??? On the turn 3 ways, it checks to Mike, who places each of his cards on the RFID reader, points to each of them, and says something to the dealer. Keep in mind that the RFID has not picked up his opponent's cards. It seems to me like he's trying to remind the guy that his cards need to go on the reader. Really suspicious stuff here. Here is the link to the hand in question:
https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=14040
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:18 AM   #1630
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Would his brother telling a story about how he cheated at gambling as a kid be admissible? Could you weasel it in by pretending you just wanted to show the hand?

I wonder if the defense could talk about Unger's record. Or, show Gus Hanson hands with the announcers reacting in the same way. Many thought he was nuts and I'm sure some of Gus's hands were also -ev. He won 3 WPTs in a short span. What were the odds? Might or might not point out that Gus has done very little at the WSOP and has lost millions online and say you could just as easily argue he was cheating with WPT.

Would that be allowed, or enough to confuse people who know nothing about poker?
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:20 AM   #1631
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Who has the Hitler Reacts video that Joey played?
Good stuff
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:22 AM   #1632
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badreg2017 View Post
I’m going to start with a huge caveat that even though I was an attorney this is not my area of expertise and I defer to anyone who has more experience.

Yes it’s possible that this could go to trial as a civil or criminal case. If it’s a civil case, anyone who has suffered damages could bring a case if they can find a legal mechanism to do so. Breach of contract could constitute one possible legal theory for recovery for the players. When Ivy cheated the Bogota for instance, the court found that Ivy’s cheating constituted a breach against the Borgotta.

The casino could sue on the same grounds or maybe that Postle’s action will hurt the casino’s reputation and cost them business.

If the casino was negligent in running the game and hired known cheaters etc, then the players could possibly recover against the casino. These three are just examples and I’m not saying I know for sure if they are legally valid.

Criminal prosecution is possible but I don’t know what statute he would have violated. I’m sure there is some kind of anti-cheating law. Ivy violated some law called something like the NJ gambling control act for instance.

To answer your last question, there is something in law known as discovery where you submit requests for documents relevant to the case and I would imagine they would be able to get the documents you mentioned but again I’m not sure.

Thanks for the info. I know that you can to interrogatories and discovery but I know alot of that information can be altered. I'm curious if it would be possible to supoena Postles phone provider to produce his textual transcripts to be examined.

I'm repping myself as a pro se litigant in family court. No, fun, but if this is possible here with Postle, I might try and go for it in my own case. It would be helpful to introduce text evidence after locking contradictory statements in interrogatories.

Court stuff sucks when your going through it, but it is darn interesting learning of the differing tactics and approaches.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:25 AM   #1633
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Rmbxr9 View Post
Who has the Hitler Reacts video that Joey played?
Good stuff
https://captiongenerator.com/1532132...ostle-Cheating
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:26 AM   #1634
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Anyone know how much money needs to be allegedly stolen for the FBI to consider getting involved? Is 160k a big enough case?
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:29 AM   #1635
Badreg2017
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Would his brother telling a story about how he cheated at gambling as a kid be admissible? Could you weasel it in by pretending you just wanted to show the hand?

I wonder if the defense could talk about Unger's record. Or, show Gus Hanson hands with the announcers reacting in the same way. Many thought he was nuts and I'm sure some of Gus's hands were also -ev. He won 3 WPTs in a short span. What were the odds? Might or might not point out that Gus has done very little at the WSOP and has lost millions online and say you could just as easily argue he was cheating with WPT.

Would that be allowed, or enough to confuse people who know nothing about poker?
Same caveat that I’m not an expert but I would imagine the brother’s statement would be admissible in a civil trial but maybe not criminal. Under the federal rules of evidence, relevant evidence is admissible unless another rule bars it. Relevant is defined as if it has any tendency to make a proposition any more or less likely, even if it’s by just a tiny bit. This evidence is definitely relevant.

The question then becomes if it can be excluded using the rule regarding character evidence. Normally character evidence can’t really be used to show that just because someone acted badly before, they are acting badly now, but since this case goes directly to the moral character of the defendant, it would probably be allowed.

One possible objection is that this statement is more unfairly prejudicial than it is relevant but I don’t think that objection would fly.

In a criminal case, use of character evidence is a little more regulated. The prosecution might not be able to use character evidence unless the defense opens the door by using character evidence themselves.

If you are really curious you could just google the California or federal rules of evidence and specifically character evidence. I know Cornell Law School will have published all of the federal rules of evidence for free.

Evidence of another seemingly crazy lag like Gus Hansen’s record of success would likely be admissible. The prosecution could argue it’s not equivalent and would serve to confuse the jurors more than it would be relevant but again I don’t see that argument working.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 10-03-2019 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:29 AM   #1636
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Would his brother telling a story about how he cheated at gambling as a kid be admissible? Could you weasel it in by pretending you just wanted to show the hand?

I wonder if the defense could talk about Unger's record. Or, show Gus Hanson hands with the announcers reacting in the same way. Many thought he was nuts and I'm sure some of Gus's hands were also -ev. He won 3 WPTs in a short span. What were the odds? Might or might not point out that Gus has done very little at the WSOP and has lost millions online and say you could just as easily argue he was cheating with WPT.

Would that be allowed, or enough to confuse people who know nothing about poker?
Are you seriously comparing donkaments to cash games and implying because Gus luckboxed a couple MTTs with his laggy play that maybe he was cheating as well?

The facts are Postle played every hand perfect and he played perfect in spots where it´s nearly impossible to play perfect UNLESS you know exactly what your opponent is holding.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:30 AM   #1637
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Would his brother telling a story about how he cheated at gambling as a kid be admissible? Could you weasel it in by pretending you just wanted to show the hand?

I wonder if the defense could talk about Unger's record. Or, show Gus Hanson hands with the announcers reacting in the same way. Many thought he was nuts and I'm sure some of Gus's hands were also -ev. He won 3 WPTs in a short span. What were the odds? Might or might not point out that Gus has done very little at the WSOP and has lost millions online and say you could just as easily argue he was cheating with WPT.

Would that be allowed, or enough to confuse people who know nothing about poker?
3 wpt is a lot less impressive than mikes record
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:33 AM   #1638
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by NowWeGo View Post
Anyone know how much money needs to be allegedly stolen for the FBI to consider getting involved? Is 160k a big enough case?
In most states casino cheating rules/laws are established and enforced by State gaming commissions. I don't believe the FBI has any authority to enforce or otherwise involve itself in a State Gaming Commission matter.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:36 AM   #1639
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcrazylegsX View Post
First off I want to say that I have not been reading up on this thread in the past few hours, so if anyone has already noted any of these points, I apologize for the redundancy and for not giving them credit.


I was very curious when someone posted Mike's monthly results for 2019 and his only losing month was June. Another thing that peaked my interest was people noting that Stones TD Justin Kuraitis was in Vegas in June. So I decided to do some more research into this and see if there was correlation in the timeline of Mike's poor results in June and Justin being in Vegas in June.


Justin Kuraitis:
Scrolling through Justin's twitter timeline, it looks like he was in Vegas from approximately May 28 through July 12. I'm sure someone can verify the exact dates. I've posted the links to his first and last tweets from Vegas that are stamped "from Nevada".

Justin in Vegas May 28 - July 12
-https://twitter.com/JFKPokerTD/status/1133501942628380672
-https://twitter.com/JFKPokerTD/status/1149867365028380672


Mike Postle:
All of Mike's sessions from May 20 - July 20 are listed below. I have determined based on watching the hands which sessions he is cheating and which sessions he is not. I am an experienced player and consider myself qualified to make these determinations, but I have posted links to spots I believe indicate cheating or not cheating so you can take a look at them for yourself. A couple of things I noticed about Mike's appearance that differ when he is cheating vs when he is not cheating. When he is cheating, he is always wearing his hat forward and his phone is in his lap. However, when he is not cheating, he is either not wearing a hat or he is wearing his hat backward and his phone is not always in his lap.

Mike cheating May 20 (wearing hat forward):
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=2777
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=6239
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=7525
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=8011
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=8203
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=12043
-https://youtu.be/ZQuQPmjV8z8?t=13694 (This hand is amazing - RFID doesn't pick up opponent's cards until right after hand)

Mike not cheating June 1 (NO HAT):
-https://youtu.be/8lwIMGA1q64?t=1349
-https://youtu.be/8lwIMGA1q64?t=4322

Mike not cheating June 3 (wearing hat backward):
-https://youtu.be/SWgp-1UhSl8?t=9857
-https://youtu.be/SWgp-1UhSl8?t=12882


Mike not cheating June 15 (wearing hat backward):
-https://youtu.be/x7QrK6wYz0w?t=1425
-https://youtu.be/x7QrK6wYz0w?t=4243

Mike not cheating June 17 (wearing hat backward):
-https://youtu.be/iajF2_mLyts?t=4629
-https://youtu.be/iajF2_mLyts?t=6302

Mike not cheating July 8 (wearing hat backward):
-https://youtu.be/n2HMF2q6UXE?t=1924
-https://youtu.be/n2HMF2q6UXE?t=2635

Mike cheating July 20 (wearing hat forward):
-https://youtu.be/uQujzYc-lrk?t=8450
-https://youtu.be/uQujzYc-lrk?t=9456
-https://youtu.be/uQujzYc-lrk?t=11081
-https://youtu.be/uQujzYc-lrk?t=11521


Based on this timeline, I have come to the conclusion that Mike does not cheat when Justin is not around. Coincidence? Definitely possible. But this needs to be more thoroughly investigated.

Hopefully everyone involved in this scheme will be brought to justice and we can figure out exactly how this was done so we can prevent it from ever happening again.
Hey, I did an analysis of Justin (commentating) + Mike playing on May 6th. No Godmode. In that episode Justin confirms he was leaving for Vegas May 25th and coming back July 16th.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:46 AM   #1640
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by BobbyPeru View Post
Are you seriously comparing donkaments to cash games and implying because Gus luckboxed a couple MTTs with his laggy play that maybe he was cheating as well?

The facts are Postle played every hand perfect and he played perfect in spots where it´s nearly impossible to play perfect UNLESS you know exactly what your opponent is holding.
I'm saying it could be confusing to someone who has only seen a hand of poker in a James Bond movie.

Hanson and Unger were playing in the biggest events in the world. Is it so crazy to think my client could do even better with a similar style against a bunch of well off drunks with money to burn on a Friday night?

I don't know if it would fly, but what else are you going to say?
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:46 AM   #1641
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyPeru View Post
Are you seriously comparing donkaments to cash games and implying because Gus luckboxed a couple MTTs with his laggy play that maybe he was cheating as well?



The facts are Postle played every hand perfect and he played perfect in spots where it´s nearly impossible to play perfect UNLESS you know exactly what your opponent is holding.
He's not. He's saying an attorney might do this to confuse a non poker playing jury
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:50 AM   #1642
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Would his brother telling a story about how he cheated at gambling as a kid be admissible? Could you weasel it in by pretending you just wanted to show the hand?

I wonder if the defense could talk about Unger's record. Or, show Gus Hanson hands with the announcers reacting in the same way. Many thought he was nuts and I'm sure some of Gus's hands were also -ev. He won 3 WPTs in a short span. What were the odds? Might or might not point out that Gus has done very little at the WSOP and has lost millions online and say you could just as easily argue he was cheating with WPT.

Would that be allowed, or enough to confuse people who know nothing about poker?
Ungar crushed because he was the GOAT at MTT's and a genius.

Gus Hansen won three WPT's in a short space of time because he was good and on an heater.
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:56 AM   #1643
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyPeru View Post
Are you seriously comparing donkaments to cash games and implying because Gus luckboxed a couple MTTs with his laggy play that maybe he was cheating as well?

The facts are Postle played every hand perfect and he played perfect in spots where it´s nearly impossible to play perfect UNLESS you know exactly what your opponent is holding.
stop being an idiot, the guy pulled a name out of a hat as an example of what the defense attorney might say. hes shedding light on the legal process for us

appreciate the info Badreg2017
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Old 10-03-2019, 05:56 AM   #1644
jal300
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Living Abortion View Post
Thanks for the info. I know that you can to interrogatories and discovery but I know alot of that information can be altered. I'm curious if it would be possible to supoena Postles phone provider to produce his textual transcripts to be examined.

I'm repping myself as a pro se litigant in family court. No, fun, but if this is possible here with Postle, I might try and go for it in my own case. It would be helpful to introduce text evidence after locking contradictory statements in interrogatories.

Court stuff sucks when your going through it, but it is darn interesting learning of the differing tactics and approaches.
Individuals representing themselves in a civil matter can issue a subpoena. That said, don't be surprised if you get a letter from Verizon's (or whichever telecom company) lawyers stating that transcripts of calls and or sms messages do not exist. You are assuming phone companies keep transcripts of sms messages. If I were a betting man, I would say phone companies do not keep transcripts: imagine the uproar if the public learned that the phone companies keep recordings and transcripts of all your calls, voicemails and sms messages. Phone companies do not want to get in the middle of family court cases, civil cases, etc.: which is incentive enough not to keep recordings/transcripts. Phone records basically consist of time/date/length of call or time/date of sms.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:00 AM   #1645
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XcrazylegsX View Post
So I was looking through streams in which Justin Kuraitis was commentating. I found roughly 15 total streams, and only one of them had Mike in it. So I decided to take a look, and I found something very intriguing.

Throughout the whole episode, I didn't find a single example where I thought Mike was clearly cheating based on his play.

I figured Justin would be in the booth for the entire stream, but to my surprise he dips out of the commentary booth from 3:22:00 to 3:48:00.
Justin leaves: https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=12120
Justin returns: https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=13680

I continued to watch the hands for anything suspicious, and something very interesting happens in a hand that takes place at the 3:54:00 mark (32 minutes after Justin leaves the commentary booth).

Preflop mike calls with 87o (nothing out of the ordinary here), but then proceeds to press down on his hat with both hands. The preflop raiser (whose cards are not read by the RFID reader in this hand) cbets 4 ways and Mike calls, and proceeds to press down on his hat with both hands again. I watched this whole stream and not once until now did I see him do this with his hat, and now he does it twice within 40 seconds??? On the turn 3 ways, it checks to Mike, who places each of his cards on the RFID reader, points to each of them, and says something to the dealer. Keep in mind that the RFID has not picked up his opponent's cards. It seems to me like he's trying to remind the guy that his cards need to go on the reader. Really suspicious stuff here. Here is the link to the hand in question:
https://youtu.be/GFQ531Y_KII?t=14040
Stones live is on a 30 minute delay, so 3:54 would actually happen two minutes after he left the commentary booth, not 32. Which is perhaps even more suspect, if the cheating resumes the instant he steps out.

(when he leaves the commentary booth at 3:22 on the broadcast, it is at the 3:52 point in the control room)

(It's confusing, I had to think twice about that one too lol)
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:08 AM   #1646
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halo_P1 View Post
Just FYI because I remember someone breaking down the potripper case in terms statistical anomalies when examining win rates and it said it would be like equivalent of winning Powerball multiple (4-5 times) consecutively. Mike is multiple std deviations outside even Potripper.
I can't believe I have to explain this. The point isn't my math being accurate, it's an example of how lawyers attempt to create reasonable doubt. A seasoned criminal trial attorney can be extremely persuasive in presenting and convincing a judge and/or jury that reasonable doubt exists. In the case of a jury, they only need to convince one juror that reasonable doubt exists.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:13 AM   #1647
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The more i think about all this i feel like it could be bigger than just mike. Watching hours of streams its evident hes definitely cheating. Anyone with any poker knowledge would know that if his play was every closely examined it would be questioned. So he was so cocky that hed get away with it to not make it more subtle. I wouldnt be surprised if more people were in on this at the table. If hes this cocky with how obvious hes making it maybe he told a friend and got them to sit the game and do the same thing. They would be much more reasonable with it all. They could even be in the game for mike to dump to knowing its being given back. Is there anyone else that is sun running like he is?

The other thing i was considering was the poker room claims they were tipped off about him and investigated. What did they actually do to investigate it? Wouldn't it have been so easy to just wait until the next live game and catch him in the act? It would have been so easy to make the rfid be off and he is playing according to rfid and getting fed wrong information.

The interview i saw with mike of him trying to explain his thought process its quite clear hes no genius. So no way he is in this alone and it wouldnt shock me if there were a small group of people. Its so gross to think what he could have gotten away with if he wasnt so greedy and the thought that it could be going on under the radar all over because they don't make it to obvious.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:16 AM   #1648
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Why does Mike continue to insist he just found out about the investigation a few days ago and had no previous knowledge of it???

Why wouldn't they have tried to catch Mike in the act??

This last stream was wild. First session Mike didn't have his god mode on and played awful and ran awful. The second session post WSOP he came back in full force god moding it up everywhere. Lots of ****ing wild hands we went over.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:16 AM   #1649
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by enzet View Post
this 84s call on Joey stream was the most disgusting superusing ever seen from this guy. someone clip that please...
Just chiming in to use the word egregious to say that this is the most egregious hand I've seen. Calling pot turn bet OOP 5 way when a bet there against the field reps such strength. River is whatever since if he thinks he's good turn then logic follows to river I guess.

https://youtu.be/QzL4uf6qlao?t=13194
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:21 AM   #1650
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: 9th Man Walking
Posts: 270
re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I've never played at stones... Are there **** loads of cameras in there like there are at casinos? It would be interesting to see if surveillance could see what P******* is doing in the two seat while he is seemingly grabbing onto his device.



Also, I recommend that we refer to Postle as P******* from here on out.
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