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Old 10-02-2019, 11:21 PM   #1501
HarryKane09
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This is sick.

Watching Joey's stream and been listening to Justin Kuraitis basically give Postle a rimjob for 30 mins.

Then this hand happens at 3hour 41 minutes where Postle holds v an OESD for a $!0.7k pot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUMt--bML6o&t=2059s

LOOK AT HIS FACE AFTER THE HAND. HE IS SO HAPPY. HE KNOWS THIS POT WAS WORTH A COUPLE OF THOUSAND TO HIM AND HE'S LAUGHING AT HIS CUSTOMERS ON STREAM.

That man is the devil.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:28 PM   #1502
Chasicle
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

For what itís worth, Iíve played many hours at Stones and gotten to know the dealers. I once asked about a blowup Postle had when someone questioned one of his plays. The dealer said that Postle HATES it when someone calls him out on a bad play and loses his temper.

What does this mean? Not much, but could indicate he knows he canít defend his play, which is clear when heís in the booth and sounds like an idiot.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:34 PM   #1503
DevoGKT
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Honestly I hope Justin gets what’s coming even more than postle. Postle is scum of scrum but clearly he’s not the mastermind. He’s dumb as **** actually. Everything else points to Justin. That smug prick


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Last edited by DevoGKT; 10-03-2019 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:34 PM   #1504
bthekuta
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by AGame18 View Post
I likely wonít be posting any more on this after this, but again, I disagree. And your implication that circumstantial evidence is less valid or damning than direct evidence is a common myth by lay persons. Neither is necessarily stronger or more credible than the other. It depends on the level of detail and the specific nature of the respective evidence. Many many criminal prosecutions are based largely or solely on circumstantial evidence, and most of those cases have significantly less evidence than what we have here. Your plea comment is a strawman. All prosecutions are more likely to end in a plea than a trial. Iím sure this one would be no different. But that doesnít necessarily mean itís because prosecutors do not feel confident in their case. Quite the contrary sometimes. Trials take time and money and come with all sorts of uncertainties and likely appeals. Lots of reasons why pleas are preferable, even with a slam dunk case.

Again, much work would need to be done to get it in shape to present to a factfinder, but as I said, I would feel super confident as a prosecutor here. And as a plaintiffís attorney in a civil case, I would be doing cartwheels.
Iím a plaintiffís attorney in California, and while I would take this case based on the info to date, I also agree with others that a lot of the stats and poker will go over a juryís head. Discovery will (of course) be critical.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:39 PM   #1505
gotgot123
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Someone needs to post the to r/legaladvice to help everyone involved. I haven't got enough of the cliffs or good enough to break it down.

Legal advice for those that were involved and to see what could be done to the god
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:42 PM   #1506
AGame18
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by bthekuta View Post
Iím a plaintiffís attorney in California, and while I would take this case based on the info to date, I also agree with others that a lot of the stats and poker will go over a juryís head. Discovery will (of course) be critical.
I donít fully disagree. But we havenít even scratched the surface. I think you could get several experts to testify that this is not statistically possibly without cheating, and juries can understand that very well, even if they donít fully understand the reasons why.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:53 PM   #1507
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bthekuta View Post
I’m a plaintiff’s attorney in California, and while I would take this case based on the info to date, I also agree with others that a lot of the stats and poker will go over a jury’s head. Discovery will (of course) be critical.
You should make some contacts and do your thing for poker.

I can tell you this. If i was in your position and I cared about the game and let's say justice I would be lobbying with everything I had
to get this thing looked at in the proper jurisdiction.

If it's does not make sense for you to do this that's fine but it would sure be good if you could at least take a shot at trying to get something done.

I remember back in the day a group I was very well associated with was giving that asshat Iovation computer guy (Greg Pierson) from Ultimate Bet an award in Seattle and I lobbied their office to not do this and informed them of all the incriminating information that was out there about him.

Last edited by R*R; 10-03-2019 at 12:05 AM. Reason: Added the scumbag Greg Pierson's name to post
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:56 PM   #1508
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Law talking guys,

What kind of criteria would need to be met to successfully sue Stones, rather than just Mike and Justin?
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:56 PM   #1509
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by R*R View Post
You should make some contacts and do your thing for poker.
No way a court trial would be good for poker. Would be good for our collective justice boners though, but every grandma on facebook is gonna be like "I told you that gambling is no good! bunch of liars and cheats!"
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:57 PM   #1510
texasderek
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Full under hat bill camera shot at around 37:16 - https://youtu.be/xUMt--bML6o?t=2236

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Old 10-03-2019, 12:03 AM   #1511
DevoGKT
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by texasderek View Post
Full under hat bill camera shot at around 37:16 - https://youtu.be/xUMt--bML6o?t=2236

Wow, looks like you can see something. Pretty clear even with out this he has **** in his hat.. Also not surprising but Mike and Justin are radio silent all day today.. assuming talking to lawyers or just trying to hide trail
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:04 AM   #1512
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Going over the session in June that Apostle lost in - the session he didn't run like a god during the summer.

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Old 10-03-2019, 12:04 AM   #1513
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by CCuster_911 View Post
No way a court trial would be good for poker. Would be good for our collective justice boners though, but every grandma on facebook is gonna be like "I told you that gambling is no good! bunch of liars and cheats!"
I don't care what grandma's or anyone else thinks about poker. I want this guys balls on a hook if he did this. The worst thing that can happen is people getting away with this kind of stuff.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:05 AM   #1514
bthekuta
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by AGame18 View Post
I donít fully disagree. But we havenít even scratched the surface. I think you could get several experts to testify that this is not statistically possibly without cheating, and juries can understand that very well, even if they donít fully understand the reasons why.
Completely agree. Big picture things like the potripper graph would be much more effective than trying to convince a jury that betting into two players with 76o in a bomb pot is nonsensical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Law talking guys,

What kind of criteria would need to be met to successfully sue Stones, rather than just Mike and Justin?
I honestly think there's enough here already for a lawsuit against Stones, especially under California's relatively liberal pleading standards. At a minimum, Stones wasn't following its own policy of not allowing phones at the table or taking any other measures to prevent this type of cheating. This would likely support any negligence-based theory.

However, the extremely shady RFID issues, having his brother commentate, completely turning a blind eye to his outrageous win sessions, and other evidence would likely support fraud-based intentional torts as well, at least at the pleading stage.

The problem is that compensatory damages are relatively low per aggrieved player, but the fraud-based actions would open up potentially additional remedies.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:07 AM   #1515
jal300
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Law talking guys,

What kind of criteria would need to be met to successfully sue Stones, rather than just Mike and Justin?
The proper lawyer answer would be; it depends! All kidding aside, in a civil suit, you have to establish Stones caused you harm and/or loss. Now, that said, Stones hiring an employee that punched you in the face and broke your jaw, generally you can't go after the employer if the employee did you harm. In other words, was the employee acting in his/her own capacity, or was he/she doing it in their official capacity (i.e. doing it for Stones). A hotel employee that steals your wallet from your room goes to jail, the Hilton doesn't go to jail. Now, was Stones somehow negligent in hiring this person. I don't know. So although it's a longstanding joke, but lawyers often say "it depends" because most legal questions are more complicated than "if this then that."
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:09 AM   #1516
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
Ryan Feldman, who runs Live at the Bike, makes a great point. This could be the smoking gun that someone in the producer booth was in on it.

He may be wrong here. Why cant the RFID reader pick up a better/another read and report as such? After initially getting a faulty read, the cards are better positioned to be picked up a few seconds later and the graphic corrects itself.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:11 AM   #1517
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ES2 View Post
Law talking guys,

What kind of criteria would need to be met to successfully sue Stones, rather than just Mike and Justin?
Not a lawyer but I'd think there's a very strong case against Stones, especially with an employee warning them about it and them ignoring the warning.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:13 AM   #1518
theskillzdatklls
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by DevoGKT View Post
Honestly I hope Justin gets whatís coming even more than postle. Postle is scum of scrum but clearly heís not the mastermind. Heís dumb as **** actually. Everything else points to Justin. That smug prick


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To an extent, I kind of agree.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:17 AM   #1519
Grind On My Mind
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

So justin wanted the room to grow so he promotes and helps cheat with a player in the room? Im just not buying it. Doesnt make much logical sense to me, too much risk involved. I mean its possible if he is getting a big cut. How would Justin consistently relay info to Postle? Surely he has other responsibilities while working.

I think its more of a lone wolf cheat imo.

Last edited by Grind On My Mind; 10-03-2019 at 12:19 AM. Reason: Lone wolves
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:18 AM   #1520
HarryKane09
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Well done to the guys who are downloading the archived videos.

I really wouldn't be surprised if they delete/restrict the account soon so yeah I'd suggest the lawyers/players/Joey/Doug download as many as they can.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:21 AM   #1521
IQofTwoPlusTwo
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

How much evidence of employee involvement is needed to get the gaming commission to send in it's goon squad? Why are civil suits needed when there is a regulatory body in place that can levy fines and settlements?
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:22 AM   #1522
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
So justin wanted the room to grow so he promotes and helps cheat with a player in the room? Im just not buying it. Doesnt make much logical sense to me, too much risk involved. I mean its possible if he is getting a big cut. How would Justin consistently relay info to Postle? Surely he has other responsibilities while working.

I think its more of a lone wolf cheat imo.
Greed or urgent financial need can take over. There have been poker room managers fired for taking part in rigging a bad beat payout.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:22 AM   #1523
datwizz
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Did anybody check if he made any final tables that were streamed? Some of Stones tournaments get pretty big prize pools so curious if any happened while the scam was going on.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:24 AM   #1524
wiiziwiig
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGame18 View Post
I donít fully disagree. But we havenít even scratched the surface. I think you could get several experts to testify that this is not statistically possibly without cheating, and juries can understand that very well, even if they donít fully understand the reasons why.
I think getting a mathematician/statistics poker player like Bill Chen or Liv Boeree as an expert witness could be helpful. But there would need to be more than just hand histories, which I think there is a lot more evidence than that that has been uncovered by people on yt, 2plus2 and twitter. Much more could be discovered by an actual lawyer that can travel onsite. I'm just worried about Justin spearheading the investigation, there is a clear conflict of interest so he shouldn't be involved at all and should be sent on vacation with a third party handling everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911 View Post
No way a court trial would be good for poker. Would be good for our collective justice boners though, but every grandma on facebook is gonna be like "I told you that gambling is no good! bunch of liars and cheats!"
I think in the short run, it would be bad for poker, but good in the long run. Small livestreams have been great for poker, but there are major liabilities and concerns with the technology being used so this is a great wakeup call. Plus, these people belong in jail, and putting them behind bars would send a message to all those who cheat/scam.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:24 AM   #1525
milespro
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
So justin wanted the room to grow so he promotes and helps cheat with a player in the room? Im just not buying it. Doesnt make much logical sense to me, too much risk involved. I mean its possible if he is getting a big cut. How would Justin consistently relay info to Postle? Surely he has other responsibilities while working.

I think its more of a lone wolf cheat imo.

Regarding Justin's responsibilities I can't say for certain, but I work on production sets and there are several positions that often are just "there". Particularly Production management or leads. Once they have everything in place they more or less are just monitoring to make sure things go well.

Maybe he has other cardroom duties but I think its highly possible he has liberal free time and discretion to pull this off.
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