Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-22-2021, 07:08 AM   #12901
Dream Crusher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dream Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas
Posts: 15,670
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

In my latest post I didn't claim he was innocent. I said he was not guilty.

Innocent or not, providing one's phone to the police (or even "third parties") would be extremely foolish and I can't imagine any lawyer would recommend that, especially in an open and shut case like this where he is clearly not guilty under California law and there won't even be a trial.
Dream Crusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 07:43 AM   #12902
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,583
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
What do you mean "Postle ain't doing anything either?" He's not guilty so he ain't got to do ****. He's just a 1/3 poker pro that has a family to support, so he can't afford a long drawn out civil suit just to try to clear his name.

Not doing **** is exactly why he is now liable for other people’s attorney fees.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 10:31 AM   #12903
Dream Crusher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dream Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas
Posts: 15,670
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Not doing **** is exactly why he is now liable for other people’s attorney fees.
No, he's liable for attorney fees because he chose to sue when he should have just moved on with his life.
Dream Crusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 10:49 AM   #12904
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,583
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
No, he's liable for attorney fees because he chose to sue when he should have just moved on with his life.
No, he is liable for attorney fees because after he decided to sue and was dropped by his attorneys, he didn’t do ****. The reason his attorneys dropped him was he did not do ****. The reason he represented himself at the oral argument and lost was he did not do ****.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 11:20 AM   #12905
Dream Crusher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dream Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas
Posts: 15,670
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Sounds like you are doing a lot of speculation, and your story does not line up with what Postle himself stated. His attorney had to step back from his job as an attorney in order to handle the estate of his father who had just passed. Then, the lady from the Honor Network that was helping Postle with the case had a heart attack.

You keep saying he didn't do **** but I'd say he did too much ****. He thought just because he was not guilty of any crime that this would be a slam dunk defamation case but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Filing the lawsuit was a mistake, regardless of whether it had merit or not.
Dream Crusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 11:37 AM   #12906
BobbyPeru
adept
 
BobbyPeru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,139
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
Sounds like you are doing a lot of speculation, and your story does not line up with what Postle himself stated. His attorney had to step back from his job as an attorney in order to handle the estate of his father who had just passed. Then, the lady from the Honor Network that was helping Postle with the case had a heart attack.

You keep saying he didn't do **** but I'd say he did too much ****. He thought just because he was not guilty of any crime that this would be a slam dunk defamation case but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Filing the lawsuit was a mistake, regardless of whether it had merit or not.
Srsly? So if you had just put on one of the greatest displays of no limit poker ever recorded and all these haters tried to tarnish your reputation with claims of cheating you're telling me you would just turn the other cheek? Rly?
BobbyPeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 01:33 PM   #12907
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,583
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
Sounds like you are doing a lot of speculation, and your story does not line up with what Postle himself stated. His attorney had to step back from his job as an attorney in order to handle the estate of his father who had just passed. Then, the lady from the Honor Network that was helping Postle with the case had a heart attack.

You keep saying he didn't do **** but I'd say he did too much ****. He thought just because he was not guilty of any crime that this would be a slam dunk defamation case but that doesn't seem to be the case at all. Filing the lawsuit was a mistake, regardless of whether it had merit or not.
So when his first attorneys in the defamation lawsuit say he was not communicating with them, they were lying and had to drop him to work on a fathers estate?

Your beliefs seem to center on Postles honesty and perhaps are misplaced.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 06:32 PM   #12908
Outoftime44444
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 751
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Postle owes attorney fees cause he filed a lawsuit that is strongly in violation of freedom of speech and the US and California Constitutions ..... a law created so people can't file lawsuits to stop other people from exercising legitimate free speech.... a law created to make people pay attorney fees for filing such egregiously illegal lawsuits.
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 06:34 PM   #12909
Outoftime44444
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 751
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
No, he is liable for attorney fees because after he decided to sue and was dropped by his attorneys, he didn’t do ****. The reason his attorneys dropped him was he did not do ****. The reason he represented himself at the oral argument and lost was he did not do ****.
This too as well.... when Postle voluntarily dismissed his lawsuit (LOL) cause he didn't have an attorney, the court deemed it an admission that his defamation lawsuit was without merit, so he lost automatically on Wittles anti-SLAPP motion to strike.
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 06:36 PM   #12910
Outoftime44444
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 751
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Mike Postle if you are reading this, you should consider legal against your defamation attorneys for legal malpractice.... for filing such a fraudulent and illegal lawsuit on your behalf..... unless of course you may have misrepresented to them your innocence!?!?!
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2021, 07:35 PM   #12911
Dreamer
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 476
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
This too as well.... when Postle voluntarily dismissed his lawsuit (LOL) cause he didn't have an attorney, the court deemed it an admission that his defamation lawsuit was without merit, so he lost automatically on Wittles anti-SLAPP motion to strike.
Its clear he lacks self awareness of the situations he puts himself in.

If he would have only cheated 25-50% of the time he would have still crushed but the chances are he would never have been caught as there would have been numerous hands where he is betting into the nuts and lots of other normal looking stuff.

But no.... lets do full out God mode in every session, knowing that all the sessions are being streamed on the internet and recorded.
Dreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2021, 08:11 AM   #12912
OldManDecaf
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 338
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Its clear he lacks self awareness of the situations he puts himself in.
This, and you're being kind.
OldManDecaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2021, 09:00 AM   #12913
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Postle owes attorney fees cause he filed a lawsuit that is strongly in violation of freedom of speech and the US and California Constitutions ..... a law created so people can't file lawsuits to stop other people from exercising legitimate free speech.... a law created to make people pay attorney fees for filing such egregiously illegal lawsuits.
where did the judge say this? or is this your interpretation of the judge's action, which happened for reasons you really don't know anything about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
But no.... lets do full out God mode in every session, knowing that all the sessions are being streamed on the internet and recorded.
Isn't that always the question, in hindsight? How could they be so greedy? I think they never believe it's going to last very long, so they milk it as quickly as they can which (ironically) is what makes it end.

Last edited by inmyrav; 05-25-2021 at 09:03 AM. Reason: learning to multiquote and multipost less
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2021, 09:26 AM   #12914
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSH_POT View Post
Is the award of attorney's fees in CA considered an enforceable money judgment, or would the defense need to file a separate action collect in the event that he doesn't voluntarily pay?
You aren't suggesting that Postle may be due some process? Can't they just grab his ****? What kind of country is this?
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2021, 10:35 AM   #12915
NewAcctIsBest
banned
 
NewAcctIsBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Guava Island
Posts: 1,039
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOSH_POT View Post
Is the award of attorney's fees in CA considered an enforceable money judgment, or would the defense need to file a separate action collect in the event that he doesn't voluntarily pay?
I believe it’s enforceable
NewAcctIsBest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2021, 10:40 AM   #12916
Outoftime44444
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 751
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
where did the judge say this? or is this your interpretation of the judge's action, which happened for reasons you really don't know anything about?
Why are you trying to be so difficult? Literally the law itself says this:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...16&lawCode=CCP


Quote:
425.16.
(a) The Legislature finds and declares that there has been a disturbing increase in lawsuits brought primarily to chill the valid exercise of the constitutional rights of freedom of speech and petition for the redress of grievances. The Legislature finds and declares that it is in the public interest to encourage continued participation in matters of public significance, and that this participation should not be chilled through abuse of the judicial process. To this end, this section shall be construed broadly.

(b) (1) A cause of action against a person arising from any act of that person in furtherance of the person’s right of petition or free speech under the United States Constitution or the California Constitution in connection with a public issue shall be subject to a special motion to strike, unless the court determines that the plaintiff has established that there is a probability that the plaintiff will prevail on the claim.
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2021, 02:44 PM   #12917
ejames209
adept
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 6bet me's no. 1 fan's no. 1 fan
Posts: 1,176
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
that always the question, in hindsight? How could they be so greedy? I think they never believe it's going to last very long, so they milk it as quickly as they can which (ironically) is what makes it end.
Fly too close to the sun and you will perish in a fiery death. More than a myth evidently.
ejames209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2021, 12:30 PM   #12918
Former DJ
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern USA
Posts: 1,347
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Legal Malpractice?

It would be interesting for a writer (and/or a filmmaker) who specializes in examining the decision making process of prominent (and not so prominent) law firms who agree to take on (and then dump) clients like MP. I would love to have been a fly on the wall listening in when the prospect of representing Mr. Postle was first broached to the senior partners of that Beverly Hills "entertainment" law firm. The discussion might have gone something like this ...

Junior Partner (or moron who pitched this idea to Senior Partners): "This is a gold mine! Scott van Pelt went live on the air at ESPN in effect declaring that Mr. Postle is a cheater. That's textbook defamation - and ESPN is part of a huge media and entertainment operation. We'll milk this cow for hundreds of millions!!"

Senior Partners: "Very good work, [junior partner] - sign him up!"

After some time passes and reality begins sinking in, the senior partners have another meeting with the junior partner - or whoever brought this case to their attention. That meeting goes something like this ...

Senior Partners: "You idiot! You pitch a client like Postle to us without even bothering to check into the facts and the specifics of what he's claiming!? ESPN is going to bury us in motions, document demands, depositions, and paperwork that will drag on for years - not to mention the attorneys for all the other potential defendants who will do the same. Do you realize how much representing a client like Mike Postle is going to cost us!!??

Junior Partner: "Well sir, I ... um ..."

Senior Partner: "Shut up. I'm tired of listening to you and your harebrained client. You go talk to your "client" and tell him we're getting out - and don't ever pitch a client like this to us again if you plan to continue practicing with this law firm!"

With the usual proviso that IANAL, it appears that serious legal malpractice was committed by the law firm that agreed to represent MP in the first place. MP must have thought pulling the wool over the eyes of a bunch of clueless inept lawyers would be just as easy as swindling a group of clueless poker players.

Last edited by Former DJ; 05-26-2021 at 12:42 PM.
Former DJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2021, 02:19 PM   #12919
NewAcctIsBest
banned
 
NewAcctIsBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Guava Island
Posts: 1,039
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I assume he lied to them and that clears them of wrong doing. Lawyers?
NewAcctIsBest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2021, 02:26 PM   #12920
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,335
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
There was direct evidence, including dna of the victim on his boat. The case was a circumstantial case, but there was direct evidence.
Outoftime can correct me on this, but the DNA of the victim on the boat could be either direct or circumstantial evidence, depending on what you're trying to prove.

If you're trying to prove that the victim was on the boat at some point, the presence is DNA is direct evidence.

If you're trying to prove that boat owner killed the victim, then the DNA is circumstantial.

Again, OOT4444 (or anyone else with legal expertise), please tell me if I have that bassackwards, as it's quite possible that I do.

EDIT: it seems there is a misconception that direct evidence is just a synonym for "stronger" evidence, but that's not necessarily the case. This has been discussed in this thread already. e.g. suppose there was video surveillance of Postle walking into the control room at a time the Stones Live stream was known to be going, then additional footage of his walking out and returning to the table five minutes later, that would be circumstantial evidence that he was cheating – even though it would be damning as hell. On the other hand, if some person were to come forward and say "I spoke with Mike Postle back in November of 2019 and he admitted to me that he cheated," that would be direct evidence but it would also be pretty tough to give it any reliability.

Last edited by Wilbury Twist; 05-26-2021 at 02:37 PM.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2021, 09:26 PM   #12921
Outoftime44444
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 751
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Outoftime can correct me on this, but the DNA of the victim on the boat could be either direct or circumstantial evidence, depending on what you're trying to prove.

If you're trying to prove that the victim was on the boat at some point, the presence is DNA is direct evidence.

If you're trying to prove that boat owner killed the victim, then the DNA is circumstantial.

Again, OOT4444 (or anyone else with legal expertise), please tell me if I have that bassackwards, as it's quite possible that I do.

EDIT: it seems there is a misconception that direct evidence is just a synonym for "stronger" evidence, but that's not necessarily the case. This has been discussed in this thread already. e.g. suppose there was video surveillance of Postle walking into the control room at a time the Stones Live stream was known to be going, then additional footage of his walking out and returning to the table five minutes later, that would be circumstantial evidence that he was cheating – even though it would be damning as hell. On the other hand, if some person were to come forward and say "I spoke with Mike Postle back in November of 2019 and he admitted to me that he cheated," that would be direct evidence but it would also be pretty tough to give it any reliability.
I think your comment is pretty much right, based on my understanding. I am not criminal attorney, but with your specific fact example above I agree.

I think the best answer to your question is the jury instruction that is read to jurors and printed for them, highlighted below. https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/200/223/

It doesn't matter, both are the same value! "Neither is entitled to any greater weight than the other."

Quote:
Facts may be proved by direct or circumstantial evidence or by a combination of both. Direct evidence can prove a fact by itself. For example, if a witness testifies he saw it raining outside before he came into the courthouse, that testimony is direct evidence that it was raining.Circumstantial evidence also may be called indirect evidence.Circumstantial evidence does not directly prove the fact to be decided, but is evidence of another fact or group of facts from which you may logically and reasonably conclude the truth of the fact in question.

For example, if a witness testifies that he saw someone come inside wearing a raincoat covered with drops of water, that testimony is circumstantial evidence because it may support a conclusion that it was raining outside.Both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable types of evidence to prove or disprove the elements of a charge, including intent and mental state and acts necessary to a conviction, and neither is necessarily more reliable than the other. Neither is entitled to any greater weight than the other. You must decide whether a fact in issue has been proved based on all the evidence.
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2021, 09:29 PM   #12922
Outoftime44444
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 751
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAcctIsBest View Post
I assume he lied to them and that clears them of wrong doing. Lawyers?
Yea. The attorneys have to make a legal error that hurt their client and there must be actual damages. I think if the attorneys dismissed the case before the hearing (admitting the lawsuit had no merit and automatic attorney fees) that would be legal malpractice. But Mike did not as a pro per without an attorney.

I think if Mike lied to his attorneys, that would be enough to stop a legal malpractice case. Legal malpractice cases are hard to win.
Outoftime44444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2021, 08:06 AM   #12923
dustin.d.marks
newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: On the Strip
Posts: 48
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Postle owes attorney fees cause he filed a lawsuit that is strongly in violation of freedom of speech and the US and California Constitutions ..... a law created so people can't file lawsuits to stop other people from exercising legitimate free speech.... a law created to make people pay attorney fees for filing such egregiously illegal lawsuits.
ROTFLMAO

You have ZERO understanding of the US (or Cali) Constitution. Granted; it's 2+2 NVG so it's a low bar for posting.

The US Constitution and it''s attendant document "the Bill of Rights" are there to RESTRICT GOVERNMENT(s).
dustin.d.marks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2021, 08:11 AM   #12924
dustin.d.marks
newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: On the Strip
Posts: 48
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAcctIsBest View Post
I assume he lied to them and that clears them of wrong doing. Lawyers?
Assuming…?

that's always the mark of a thoughtful intelligent truth-seeker. /sarc

Or maybe they just didn't want to spend many hours in what would be a fruitless quest that would end in little to no fees being paid?

And that's not to say he was not wronged. WINNING in court is a crapshoot these days.
dustin.d.marks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2021, 08:17 AM   #12925
dustin.d.marks
newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: On the Strip
Posts: 48
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Yea. The attorneys have to make a legal error that hurt their client and there must be actual damages.
WRONG. You're just saying this so you can attack someone you dislike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
I think if the attorneys dismissed the case before the hearing (admitting the lawsuit had no merit and automatic attorney fees) that would be legal malpractice. But Mike did not as a pro per without an attorney.
Attorney's don't "dismiss" cases, they may drop clients, or choose to NOT persue cases; but only Judges can dismiss cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
I think if Mike lied to his attorneys, that would be enough to stop a legal malpractice case. Legal malpractice cases are hard to win.
Making up your own mind, then creating "facts" to prove it. Another 2+2 NVG "thought leader" speaks! /sarc
dustin.d.marks is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive