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Old 05-15-2021, 02:38 AM   #12826
Dreamer
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT View Post


I believe this is a copy of the original vid.
Its obvious why Mike Poastal lost this court hearing.

He never looked at his crotch once during the whole stream.
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Old 05-15-2021, 03:11 AM   #12827
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
this has been addressed before, it would have been ideal for concerned parties to "launch a sting" but then that's a legal issue i'm not even sure if you could do that and/or if it would be admissable

but mostly, their hands were tied by the fact that casino itself wouldn't pursue the matter and i think veronica figured it was best just to put it into a stop loss and stop it from continuing rather than let it proceed

ideally she would have sought legal counsel and hired a pi or at least just pretended to be drunk and grabbed his hat/phone is a flirty manner but hindsight is 20/20 and we can't fault her for acting when all those other people didn't even notice
Funny how often the "all they had to do was hover over him until they could catch him red-handed on his phone" idea comes up in this thread, when the method by which he was cheating wasn't determined until after the cheating was no longer taking place.

But it's so obvious, they say.

Postle's crotch-gazing jumps off the screen because a bunch of dedicated people watched hours and hours of video clips, found a tendency, and made us aware of it. After that, it can't be unseen. It becomes "so obvious" in the way that Ali Tekintamgac's photographer friend was obvious. It's "so obvious" in the way Pasqualini's and Rossi's hand signals are obvious. Yeah, all of this stuff is easy to spot once you know to look for it.

Still, I like to consider a perfect world in which Veronica Brill never made her concerns public. We know she developed an inkling that something was afoot, but didn't know if there was cheating, let alone how there was cheating.

But in my world, Veronica keeps it to herself. She has to be sure. She can't approach JFK, lest she risk the operation folding up. After all, she somehow already knows that he's involved, too. And she can't ask to see the production equipment, or one of those guys – who might also be involved – would be tipped off.

Nope, Veronica goes it alone. She continues to serve as a commentator in that booth, hoping it will give her a better glimpse. But she also has to keep playing with Postle, because that's what she did before. And she can't fold anytime he's in a pot, either. That would give it away. It's Meinertzhagen's Haversack. She must go about her business at the table and in the booth, acting normally so as to not reveal her true investigative intentions.

And Postle's play continues to vex her. It doesn't make sense, she thinks. It's like he knows. It's weird.

It's October of 2018 now. What began as mere suspicions of wrongdoing transforms into absolute certainty. ("Definitely cheating... I just need to find out how.") To figure this out, Brill needs to recruit a posse of experts. But who? And how? After all, she can't just announce on Twitter, "hey, can anyone look at these and tell me how this guy is cheating?" That would be stupid, right?

Nope, she has to rely on her own network of poker friends. However, she has to choose the right people. After all, most of her poker friends are also friends with Postle. Her fellow commentators? They worship him. Nope, if she wants help, she has to look elsewhere.

The cheating continues into November and beyond. There is no reason to ban phones at the table, no reason to suspend the live streams. Meanwhile, Brill has her army of "experts." Bear in mind, her team has no Joey Ingrams, no Doug Polks, no Jeff Boskis, no Matt Berkeys, no Andreas Froehlis. No crazy-ass NVG degens staying up for nights on end, watching saved videos on the Stones Live Poker channel. Nope, those types of people have no idea because she kept it to herself.

That's right. She stayed quiet... you know, the way a smart person would have.

Instead, she pins down a handful of people who grind the low-stakes games with her at Bay 101 and Stones. These are folks with actual jobs and families, and precious little knowledge of VPIP and AF. But sure, they tell her, it might be fun to devote an hour every other night, trying to spot something they don't know to look for.

But they get there eventually, right? Of course they do. After all, it's so obvious.

One night, Veronica gets an excited phone call. "It's his phone! He's looking at his phone! We figured it out!"

"Are you sure?" She is incredulous, but hopeful. This would vindicate all of the suspicions she couldn't share with anyone.

"Totally. It's so obvious. Invite us to the next Veronica & Friends game," they say. "We'll grab his phone the next time he looks into his crotch, and catch him red-handed."

"I can't."

"Why not?"

"Because it took you two years to figure this out, it's now 2020, and Stones is closed due to this COVID thing."
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Old 05-15-2021, 05:05 AM   #12828
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

perfectly stated imo
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Old 05-15-2021, 07:54 AM   #12829
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Funny how often the "all they had to do was hover over him until they could catch him red-handed on his phone" idea comes up in this thread, when the method by which he was cheating wasn't determined until after the cheating was no longer taking place.

But it's so obvious, they say.

Postle's crotch-gazing jumps off the screen because a bunch of dedicated people watched hours and hours of video clips, found a tendency, and made us aware of it. After that, it can't be unseen. It becomes "so obvious" in the way that Ali Tekintamgac's photographer friend was obvious. It's "so obvious" in the way Pasqualini's and Rossi's hand signals are obvious. Yeah, all of this stuff is easy to spot once you know to look for it.

Still, I like to consider a perfect world in which Veronica Brill never made her concerns public. We know she developed an inkling that something was afoot, but didn't know if there was cheating, let alone how there was cheating.

But in my world, Veronica keeps it to herself. She has to be sure. She can't approach JFK, lest she risk the operation folding up. After all, she somehow already knows that he's involved, too. And she can't ask to see the production equipment, or one of those guys – who might also be involved – would be tipped off.

Nope, Veronica goes it alone. She continues to serve as a commentator in that booth, hoping it will give her a better glimpse. But she also has to keep playing with Postle, because that's what she did before. And she can't fold anytime he's in a pot, either. That would give it away. It's Meinertzhagen's Haversack. She must go about her business at the table and in the booth, acting normally so as to not reveal her true investigative intentions.

And Postle's play continues to vex her. It doesn't make sense, she thinks. It's like he knows. It's weird.

It's October of 2018 now. What began as mere suspicions of wrongdoing transforms into absolute certainty. ("Definitely cheating... I just need to find out how.") To figure this out, Brill needs to recruit a posse of experts. But who? And how? After all, she can't just announce on Twitter, "hey, can anyone look at these and tell me how this guy is cheating?" That would be stupid, right?

Nope, she has to rely on her own network of poker friends. However, she has to choose the right people. After all, most of her poker friends are also friends with Postle. Her fellow commentators? They worship him. Nope, if she wants help, she has to look elsewhere.

The cheating continues into November and beyond. There is no reason to ban phones at the table, no reason to suspend the live streams. Meanwhile, Brill has her army of "experts." Bear in mind, her team has no Joey Ingrams, no Doug Polks, no Jeff Boskis, no Matt Berkeys, no Andreas Froehlis. No crazy-ass NVG degens staying up for nights on end, watching saved videos on the Stones Live Poker channel. Nope, those types of people have no idea because she kept it to herself.

That's right. She stayed quiet... you know, the way a smart person would have.

Instead, she pins down a handful of people who grind the low-stakes games with her at Bay 101 and Stones. These are folks with actual jobs and families, and precious little knowledge of VPIP and AF. But sure, they tell her, it might be fun to devote an hour every other night, trying to spot something they don't know to look for.

But they get there eventually, right? Of course they do. After all, it's so obvious.

One night, Veronica gets an excited phone call. "It's his phone! He's looking at his phone! We figured it out!"

"Are you sure?" She is incredulous, but hopeful. This would vindicate all of the suspicions she couldn't share with anyone.

"Totally. It's so obvious. Invite us to the next Veronica & Friends game," they say. "We'll grab his phone the next time he looks into his crotch, and catch him red-handed."

"I can't."

"Why not?"

"Because it took you two years to figure this out, it's now 2020, and Stones is closed due to this COVID thing."
This is an impressive work. Perfectly stated.
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Old 05-15-2021, 08:03 AM   #12830
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Maybe a body language expert, poker tells or member of law enforcement could weigh in.

Watching the video with the sound off, Postle's body language and demeanor screams liar IMO.

Continuously shaking his head (which usually means '...this is so far off I don't even believe it...') looking down and to his right, arching eyebrows and opening eyes wide, cocking his head to one side, scratching forehead, covering the eyes, etc.
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Old 05-15-2021, 10:45 AM   #12831
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

How does this work? The court lowered the attorney fees from ~$43k to ~$26k +$435 court fees.

Do the clients, still have to make up the difference? And hypothetically, if the $43k was already paid by the client(s), would the attorney then reimburse them ~$17k? Do the attorneys/lawyers normally jack up their fees because the court might lower the amount?

In any other profession, if a person actually did $43k worth of work and then gets paid $17k less, I would think he would be mad as hell, but the attorney didn't even complain about it, other than calling it a haircut.
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Old 05-15-2021, 02:02 PM   #12832
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcorb View Post
Maybe a body language expert, poker tells or member of law enforcement could weigh in.

Watching the video with the sound off, Postle's body language and demeanor screams liar IMO.

Continuously shaking his head (which usually means '...this is so far off I don't even believe it...') looking down and to his right, arching eyebrows and opening eyes wide, cocking his head to one side, scratching forehead, covering the eyes, etc.
It's just the ol' "reverse tell", all the best live pros do it. Blatantly do all the textbook psych 101 nervous/weak tells when you're nutted and get paid.
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:41 PM   #12833
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Shark1980 View Post
How does this work? T
Do the clients, still have to make up the difference? And hypothetically, if the $43k was already paid by the client(s), would the attorney then reimburse them ~$17k? Do the attorneys/lawyers normally jack up their fees because the court might lower the amount?
I assume the clients already prepaid, then the clients have to go and try to collect from Postle (probably with more help from a lawyer).
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Old 05-15-2021, 09:57 PM   #12834
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
The reason he sued them was to stop them publicly saying he was a cheat.

He is a cheating lying poker player, trying to push bluffs through - that he is a victim who didn't cheat, and that people that say he is a cheat are treating him unfairly.
Why?

I mean, starting the case over just gives the people saying he's a cheat a megaphone.

And subpeonas.

Why would he sue if he's oops NOT innocent?

Bluff through?

It's possible we're dealing with a serious mental illness. But frankly, I don't see otherwise how a guilty person has any motivation to sue (your explanation of his motiivations seem like you're grasping at straws).

Postle not gto. Who knew.
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Old 05-15-2021, 11:55 PM   #12835
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

um,are,um,are
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Old 05-15-2021, 11:57 PM   #12836
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark1980 View Post
How does this work? The court lowered the attorney fees from ~$43k to ~$26k +$435 court fees.

Do the clients, still have to make up the difference? And hypothetically, if the $43k was already paid by the client(s), would the attorney then reimburse them ~$17k? Do the attorneys/lawyers normally jack up their fees because the court might lower the amount?

In any other profession, if a person actually did $43k worth of work and then gets paid $17k less, I would think he would be mad as hell, but the attorney didn't even complain about it, other than calling it a haircut.
It is whatever arrangement the Client and their Lawyer negotiates. I handled a multi-million dollar lawsuit that my company won where we got our lawyers fees covered by the other party. The judge knocked our lawyer's fees down from $1.4M to $1.1M. Our lawyer said that it was standard for the judge not to approve all the legal fees but our lawyer still expected to get the entire $1.4M no matter the judge's ruling. After some discussion, he ended up reducing it by $50k but would not budge any further.
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Old 05-16-2021, 01:00 AM   #12837
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
Why?

I mean, starting the case over just gives the people saying he's a cheat a megaphone.

And subpeonas.

Why would he sue if he's oops NOT innocent?

Bluff through?

It's possible we're dealing with a serious mental illness. But frankly, I don't see otherwise how a guilty person has any motivation to sue (your explanation of his motiivations seem like you're grasping at straws).

Postle not gto. Who knew.
I am not grasping at straws to say he did the action against his accusers to gag them, it is obvious that is why he did it.

The fact that no legal teams were prepared to take on this case shows they can also see that was the sole reason he took that action, and that the headline reason for his action (that he was an innocent victim being damaged by being falsely accused) is patently false when one looks at his unbelievable results in the streamed games, so his case had zero chance of success.

His plan to gag people did work at first (it is months since anyone has come out publicly against him, as people were worried by the risk of legal action against them simply for expressing their freedom of speech to say he is a poker cheat) but now people can talk openly against Postle and his cheating at poker.
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Old 05-16-2021, 02:52 AM   #12838
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

In order for there to be defamation, Postle has to contend with all the evidence that he did cheat. If it is even close, then he's not going to be able to argue defamation. Sure he's not a public official or a celebrity, but he was on a TV show and their assessment of him cheating is based on his publicly available actions.

The idea that he would be able to prove the accusations false is absurd. That would be the standard for a defamation case. All these people saying that they can't prove that he did it are missing the point. They weren't just making that up out of nowhere, it was based off of evidence and their own experience with him.

Maybe if he had some really good lawyers, then he could do it. Companies pay tens of millions of dollars to prove defamation cases, and are still rarely successful in those cases. Honestly the idea that he was going to succeed is laughable to anyone with even the faintest idea of how American civil law works.
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Old 05-16-2021, 08:47 AM   #12839
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

During discovery wouldn't opposing counsel be able to supoena phone records, casino surveillance tapes, etc. ?

Seems like people would want it to go to court for that reason, except the ones that are guilty, and the casino wants this buried, so there's that.
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Old 05-16-2021, 04:07 PM   #12840
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Funny how often the "all they had to do was hover over him until they could catch him red-handed on his phone" idea comes up in this thread, when the method by which he was cheating wasn't determined until after the cheating was no longer taking place.
This is probably the most important part of why it took so long to bring the situation public. Those that were close to the situation had expressed concerns to me privately almost a full year before Veronica made her accusations in late Sept of 2019 that something was going on with Postle. Some local pros had played with Postle for years and characterized him as a "bad reg" that most likely was a break even to small losing player at 2/5. And now all of a sudden he was winning five figures on four hour shows and he was barely playing anywhere else except at Stones when the live stream was going.

I had even told Veronica that it was difficult to bring forth such accusations without putting forth a probable method of the cheating and I really couldn’t figure out how it would be done. Knowing that the back tech room was entirely insecure my best guess was that someone had installed some sort of TeamViewer type trojan on the computer that ran and displayed the RFID graphics and that that signal was being sent out in real time to a 3rd party outside the cardroom. That info could have then been sent into Postle through some sort of messaging app, like a text code or something. No one had even considered that he may have had access to the un-delayed feed on his actual phone and that he was watching the broadcast in real time.

In fact, as far as I remember, an unknown guy who had been watching the Joey investigations sent him a message saying that he suspected that Mike was looking at his phone during hands. For whatever reason Joey didnt get back to him so the guy made his own Youtube video explaining it. The video showed how Mike would look down at his crotch in suspected hands and because of the way that he wore his hat the straight on camera angle made it look like he was just squeezing his cards or "thinking". Once I saw the video and watched his play in other hands it all made perfect sense. Every time we saw some bizarre play like him 4 betting the turn with A2 vs the guy that had just bet 3bet w 97 on a 4QQ5 board there was Mike looking down in a way where his baseball cap visor obscured where he was actually looking. (31:21 here: https://youtu.be/cQkI_4pjmaw?t=1881) But there wasn’t a single mention of this possible cheating method before that guy made his video. So for all of those that say that Veronica and others should have "caught him red handed" no one knew what he was doing.

BTW I looked for that video when I did my review of Postle's hands 6 months ago and I can't find it on Youtube. The video started with the first 10-15 minutes running the stream at about 2 or 3x speed. If anyone knows where that video is I would love to see it again.
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Old 05-16-2021, 05:43 PM   #12841
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
BTW I looked for that video when I did my review of Postle's hands 6 months ago and I can't find it on Youtube. The video started with the first 10-15 minutes running the stream at about 2 or 3x speed. If anyone knows where that video is I would love to see it again.


I think this is it ^
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Old 05-16-2021, 07:28 PM   #12842
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Still the most telling thing is he didn't blast off into nuts like Garret, Durrr and others sometimes do.

The bone in headphones theory didn't come until later so veronica couldn't have snatched off his hat. What casino even allows you to stare at your crotch phone mid hand? why did the dealers never speak up? Did he have one of those glare things on his phone so the people beside him couldn't see it?
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Old 05-16-2021, 08:38 PM   #12843
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by persianpunisher View Post


I think this is it ^


Ah yes thanks.. And what did it for me was the explanation and display that starts at 30:50 in that video.
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Old 05-16-2021, 08:42 PM   #12844
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SuperSwag View Post
Still the most telling thing is he didn't blast off into nuts like Garret, Durrr and others sometimes do.

The bone in headphones theory didn't come until later so veronica couldn't have snatched off his hat. What casino even allows you to stare at your crotch phone mid hand? why did the dealers never speak up? Did he have one of those glare things on his phone so the people beside him couldn't see it?
As shocking as this sounds, everyone, and I mean everyone was watching the stream (delayed) on their phones during gameplay. Him always looking at his phone was not abnormal behavior. If I remember correctly it was even encouraged that players could watch the stream at the table. Especially after they stopped having the feed on the TV near the table. In the beginning they had the feed on a large screen monitor right in front of the table but that started to cause the game to go slower so they moved it to another TV. Thats when they told everyone, "well, you can just watch it on your phone", if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-16-2021, 09:52 PM   #12845
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Bender22 View Post
It is whatever arrangement the Client and their Lawyer negotiates. I handled a multi-million dollar lawsuit that my company won where we got our lawyers fees covered by the other party. The judge knocked our lawyer's fees down from $1.4M to $1.1M. Our lawyer said that it was standard for the judge not to approve all the legal fees but our lawyer still expected to get the entire $1.4M no matter the judge's ruling. After some discussion, he ended up reducing it by $50k but would not budge any further.
He hustled you, you should have sued him
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:45 AM   #12846
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
As shocking as this sounds, everyone, and I mean everyone was watching the stream (delayed) on their phones during gameplay. Him always looking at his phone was not abnormal behavior. If I remember correctly it was even encouraged that players could watch the stream at the table. Especially after they stopped having the feed on the TV near the table. In the beginning they had the feed on a large screen monitor right in front of the table but that started to cause the game to go slower so they moved it to another TV. Thats when they told everyone, "well, you can just watch it on your phone", if I remember correctly.
Well that settles it Stones allowed this to happen and actually encouraged it, assuming they didn't specifically say it had to be the delayed variant of the stream he basically got the go ahead. Also if one was cheating in that hand @ 30:50 wouldn't they just overbet jam the turn to profit from at least one fold and freeroll to the flush no?
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Old 05-17-2021, 02:07 PM   #12847
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT View Post


I believe this is a copy of the original vid.
MicroDonkYT:

I must admit to a certain sense of schadenfreude in watching the judge serve Mr. Postle his just desserts. When Postle was carrying out his cheating, he was probably laughing (behind their backs) at Veronica, Marle, et al. Now it's not so funny.

Cheating has always been the scourge of poker - it's the primary reason why much of society takes a dim view of our beloved game. Postle is "lucky" in one respect. In the old "Wild West" days of poker, a card cheat (once discovered) was either shot or hanged. Nowadays, in our more "civilized" society, we use lawyers and the legal system to seek redress. Personally, I prefer the Wild West way of dealing with poker cheats like MP.

A good movie illustrating how card cheats were dealt with in the Old West is "Five Card Stud" starring Dean Martin and Robert Mitchum.

https://www.amazon.com/Five-Card-Stu...vies-tv&sr=1-1

Five Card Stud is one of my all time favorite movies.

Last edited by Former DJ; 05-17-2021 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 05-17-2021, 02:36 PM   #12848
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Former DJ View Post
In the old "Wild West" days of poker, a card cheat (once discovered) was hired.
FYP.
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Old 05-17-2021, 07:54 PM   #12849
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TPeck View Post
Well that settles it Stones allowed this to happen and actually encouraged it, assuming they didn't specifically say it had to be the delayed variant of the stream he basically got the go ahead. Also if one was cheating in that hand @ 30:50 wouldn't they just overbet jam the turn to profit from at least one fold and freeroll to the flush no?
For all we know he could have been watching the delayed version of the stream. We have no clue what he was watching. Hell, he could have been pretending to watch the stream just to divert attention from his actual cheating which could have had nothing to do what he was looking at.
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Old 05-17-2021, 09:16 PM   #12850
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

^^^ it looks like we found the one guy that believes he was looking at t&a pics from his girl.
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