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Old 10-02-2019, 03:55 PM   #1226
R*R
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PLIKITYPLAK View Post
The problem comes in the fact that you have to convince a jury that may not understand poker nor be mathematically inclined that what he is doing in next to inpossible. Without any concrete proof I'm sure the trial lawyers here can chime in on how much of an uphill battle that would be.
I say bring him, his possible cohorts, and The Stones people in for questioning. Dig up everything you can and charge him if there is sufficient evidence. To me, what we have now, is enough to at least open an investigation and give it a go.

People talk, more and more evidence could surface, and Bingo!
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:56 PM   #1227
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

btw as far as the commentators go, I feel like they were probably *not* in on it

for one, it's kind of their jobs to oversell these guys and look for narratives that aren't really there. it happens on every televised poker show. (admittedly the nickname "God" for someone who wound up actually being omnipotent was a little spot on)

for two, the "RFID error" thing does make sense in those cases, because he plays these hands so strangely that you almost have to suspect they weren't reading his hands right. for example the TT vs. 88 hand, my immediate reaction to that would be that someone (either Postle or the RFID reader) had misread the hand

for three, you can't really blame these guys for not suspecting anyone of cheating. look at how long it took to catch Potripper, who made it as blatant as possible. I don't think "this person can literally see my cards" is a line of thought that sane people ever have in a poker game.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:58 PM   #1228
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think Justin not releasing any sort of statement along the lines of admitting "Mike is very very likely cheating but I had nothing to do with it etc" is quite telling. Yes he would receive a lot of backlash for the 'investigation' they did a while back and Stones would lose customers, but when people are accusing you of cheating with some pretty plausible corroboration, you should probably defend yourself
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:58 PM   #1229
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltyou View Post
Someone(s) should make sure we get a copy of the videos before Stones takes them down. We don't want to lose any evidence that might help land these guys in prison.

If nobody's done that to anyone's knowledge, I can start. I don't know how much HD space that's going to be, but I guess I can find out.
100% agree. Each vid will be near 3GB in 720p. Might be difficult for one person to archive everything.

I made a spreadsheet for easy access to Postle streams, among other things. This is 2019 only, which is plenty of evidence. I am starting at the bottom of the list on working my way up.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZMA/edit#gid=0
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:59 PM   #1230
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeperthoughts View Post
@Mike_Postle
Sep 30
There’s many of us who occasionally watch the stream while we are playing. It hasn’t been allowed for some time now, but a lot of us playing did so and did often. And other players can confirm this.

@Mike_Postle
Replying to
@Mike_Postle

On top of that, I’m an agent with multiple players on a poker app. Constantly loading/withdrawing/transferring and coaching a few players. Again, some players sitting next to me can confirm this before the cell phone use was banned.
https://twitter.com/Mike_Postle/stat...863080960?s=20


I found these tweets interesting, he says that cell phone use was banned at some point. I'm curious when that happened and why.

I was going to take time to make a post trying to construct a reality under the assumption that Mike's word was gold and maybe he didn't have access to info others didn't. The fact he admitted to watching the stream while playing indicates to me that he wasn't playing in good faith, and saved me some time.


If there are lessons from this I think they are-

1. Information is valuable. If someone has access to infromation others dont', they have an edge. In a game that is supposed to put all parties on an equal footing, some parties having access to information other's don't is unfair.

2.RFID is a vulnerability. Even if it wasn't exploited in this case, rfid card identifiers are a horrible idea. <3 lipstick cams.

3. Legitimate broadcasts use time delays for a reason.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:00 PM   #1231
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
Casino has denied it so why wouldn't he just keep doing it?
Who would sit in this game with him after all this? How are you ever going to get a game going?
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:03 PM   #1232
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaMiKazE View Post
Summary thus far:

Thesis - Mike Postle was using technology and/or a partner or partners to gain access to opponents hole cards in real time.

Evidence -

HANDS PLAYED IN A VACUUM - At this point there are too many hands to count in which Postle played his hands perfectly or close to perfectly given his opponents exact holdings. Many of these plays have been analyzed by individuals in this thread, Joey Ingram and others on Youtube, and by high level pros such as Matt Berkey, Scott Seiver, and Haralobos Voulgaris. All of the above mentioned pros and the vast majority of individuals in this thread have concluded that his play style strongly suggests he has access to his opponents hole cards,

HANDS PLAYED INCONSISTENTLY - This is related to point one, but should be made separately as it is important to note that not only is he playing these hands optimally in a vacuum against opponents specific cards, but that in doing so it led to him taking wildly different lines in similar spots across different sessions. Although his lines differed considerably when he faced similar spots, he was nearly 100% accurate with his decisions, particularly on the river.

POSTURE DURING HANDS - THE CROTCH ARGUMENT - The above two lines of evidence have been rebutted by Postle supporters and Postle himself on his Twitter by arguing that he has an ability to read players that allows him to play a high VPIP style and consistently make correct decisions based on his live reads. This argument becomes problematic when reviewing the film. Postle has a very consistent posture present throughout most hands in which he is simply staring straight down into his crotch, barely paying attention to the other player. This is an odd posture to begin with, but when you consider that he actually has a phone in his left hand that is in his crotch, it becomes clear that he is actually staring at his phone. Why would he just stare down at his phone in the middle of a hand? Postle himself addressed this briefly in a tweet talking about how he and others would watch the stream on their phones. When taken together with all of the other evidence, many believe he was using his phone to gain access to opponents hole cards. It should also be noted here with posture that he consistently sits close to the table, keeps his left arm under the table holding his phone even when gathering chips many times. He is very careful not to let anyone see his phone. Perhaps the most damning problem with his posture on film is that it serves to rebut Postle’s argument that he is live reading his opponents. He is barely looking at them, while mostly staring down at his phone.

HIS RESULTS - I don’t know that anyone has actually compiled his overall VPIP or any other stats aside from winnings, but the winnings are insane. They were posted by Joey on his Twitter last night. I’ll summarize here. These numbers are from 2018. +93.2k overall in 21 sessions. Joey does note he had two losing sessions. Playing ⅓ he logged 52 hours over 13 sessions and profited 36.12k for a nearly $700/hr winrate. He played 13 sessions at that level and never lost once. At 5/5 he played 64 hours over 16 sessions and profited 56.8k for an almost $890/hr winrate. He had one losing session out of 16. So out of 29 sessions total at these levels he had one losing session and profited 93k for a total winrate of $800/hr.

RFID WEIRDNESS - CHANGING POSTLE’S CARDS - There are multiple instances of hands where somehow Postle and/or Stones claims that Postle had different cards than what was shown on stream. One point of view is that these changes were fabricated to make Postle’s play seem less suspicious. Arguments from Postle and supporters state that RFID errors occur frequently on the Stones stream. This topic is still up in the air as there have been multiple posters in this thread that have indicated that they played on the stream and can verify that their holecards were wrong in certain hands. Further, there is a screenshot of a hand where the Jd is in Postle’s hand and also on the board, providing clear evidence of some kind of error.

POSTLE ONLY PLAYS IN THE STREAMED GAMES - This issue is also a bit murky as posts have come in indicating both ways, but some have stated that Postle racks up after the stream ends and does not play off stream or does so rarely. Others have come in to state they have played with Postle for years and that he does play off stream and there was even a claim that he was a good online player back in the day. I don’t know that any conclusions can be drawn here just yet.

THE BREAK - This is the newest piece of evidence to come to light. According to Veronika’s (original accuser) twitter, Postle took an unusual break during this summer where he played very few streams. This wouldn’t mean much except for the role it plays in one of the biggest questions surrounding this - If he cheated, did he have a partner and, if so, who was it? Many have speculated that the individual in charge of the Stones livestream was involved as he would be someone with access to the realtime RFID feed. It just so happens that this individual left to attend the WSOP during the times where Postle took his break.

CONCLUSION - The vast majority of people who have looked at this evidence have concluded he cheated, most likely by being sent opponents exact hole cards. Most seem to agree he had a partner and did not know what cards would come out on any street. Most favor that he knew exact hole cards rather than just being ahead or behind but some do support the latter theory.

There might be some stuff I missed but this will generally catch you up. Cheers.
I think it's also worth noting Postle has said a few times that he's banned from Ceasars and so he couldn't really have taken a break from the streams to go play in the WSOP. Even if he went to a different card room, why take a break from the stream you're beating for $700/hr to go play somewhere else?
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:03 PM   #1233
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

@dreamc

Relax m8
Ofc they don't deserve to be cheated, I condemn these actions 100%.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:04 PM   #1234
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsabitFishy View Post
lol this is epic. As I was watching all these Postle hands I thought, the only way to play against this MFer is to just call down with everything you have. Here’s the perfect example. Do you or anyone know what stream this hand is from?
It's funny you say that. I pretty much thought the same thing, prior to this cheating thing.

I played the 10/25/50 game with him, and he barreled into me a couple times with air, and I folded. I finally thought I had him dead to rights, when he check-raised shipped, I snapped turn with second pair. Ran into TPTK. Looking at the video he weirdly glanced down to the left before he made any decision to my aggression.

Or maybe I just punted, it wouldn't be the first time.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:04 PM   #1235
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oconee72 View Post
Given what's known now, here's a pretty hilarious Postle hand breakdown by Jonathan Little:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hPmOpd_wBs
Wow, that hand. No way postle takes that line without knowing exactly what the other guys has. The scary thing is that this hand is bot a one off. He does this over and over again.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:05 PM   #1236
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopia View Post
100% agree. Each vid will be near 3GB in 720p. Might be difficult for one person to archive everything.

I made a spreadsheet for easy access to Postle streams, among other things. This is 2019 only, which is plenty of evidence. I am starting at the bottom of the list on working my way up.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZMA/edit#gid=0
I'll start with the top video and move down. Says the first one will be about 3 hours on my connection. I don't want to lower the quality in case there's some small detail about where he's looking or whatever that could be important.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:06 PM   #1237
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bc11816 View Post
yeah, but your crazy unpredictble friend is a losing or a brakeven player right? Mike is the biggest crusher of all time according to his stats. There is just no doubt that he is cheating, i am not sure how that is even debatable after seeing all those hands there is like 3 or 4 spots that are 100% proof that he is cheating and many other that can be considered justifiable but not really as we know whats going on. LOL in his defence he posts a hand where he loses a 120$ pot, that is his defence.
My friend is the biggest winner at the casino's nl game, fwiw. My post was merely pointing out that individual hands of unorthodox play don't mean much. It's when you look at the totality of hands where he's not losing stacks at similar frequencies as well that the likelihood of cheating goes way up. When you make lots of unorthodox plays, you will look like a superusing genius and complete idiot frequently. I laugh at my friends plays at least once or twice a session as he'll get stacked doing something laughably bad, but he's also picking up tons of pots that nobody else is either. Mike is 100% cheating, fwiw, because of the lack of him getting stacked frequently. I was saying that if Mike wasn't cheating, it should be absolutely trivial to find many many hands of him torching stacks with how aggressive he is. For example, my friend has folded KK preflop correctly to AA, as Mike has, but he's also got it allin with medium strength hands like TT/AQs to KK/AA frequently as well, which Mike doesn't seem to do that regularly. So looking at the highlight reel of hands that happened to work out amazingly is not super meaningful, as a lag's highlight reel is almost always going to look absurd.

Last edited by Ten5x; 10-02-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:07 PM   #1238
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This thread should not be allowed to die until this is sorted out.

This is just too ridiculous. **** Stones, **** Mike.

Last edited by R*R; 10-02-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:09 PM   #1239
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alecspade View Post
I am adding my side to it as the one who performed the audit for 2018 results. The method I used was through Twitch as in almost all streams the !cashwin command was entered to display wins/losses for each player (with I believe one exception). I also did not include any results that were not NL and accounted for add-ons, however the !cashwin command only takes into account the actual winnings from hands, so chip count is irrelevant.

2/21/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $812
Stack at LH: $3k
Win/loss: +2.2K

4/19/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 3 hrs
Stack at FH: 2.2k
Stack at LH: 1.6k
Win/loss: -$600

5/23/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $960
Stack at LH: 2.3k
Win/loss: +1.4k

6/22/18
Stakes: 5/5/10
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $2k
Stack at LH: 1.4k
Win/loss: -3.5k

7/18/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $900
Stack at LH: 2.5k
Win/loss: $1.3k

7/30/18
Stakes: 1/2/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $500
Stack at LH: $4.3k
Win/loss: +2.5k

8/1/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1.6k
Stack at LH: $3.4k
Win/loss: +2k

8/3/18
Stakes: 5/5/10
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $3.6k
Stack at LH: $7.8k
Win/loss: [not shown]

8/6/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $3.3k
Win/loss: +2.3k

8/15/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $500
Stack at LH: $2.9k
Win/loss: $2.1k

8/22/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1.3k
Stack at LH: $5.2k
Win/loss: +4k

8/29/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $5.2k
Win/loss: +2.6k

9/5/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1.2k
Stack at LH: $6k
Win/loss: $2.8k

9/12/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1.8k
Stack at LH: $2.3k
Win/loss:+$500

9/15/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $700
Stack at LH: 6.1k
Win/loss: +$3.1k

9\24\18
Stakes: 1/2/3
Length of stream: 3 hrs
Stack at FH: $775
Stack at LH: 5k
Win/loss: +2.1k

9/26/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $3.7k
Stack at LH: $5.6k
Win/loss: +2.7k

10/10/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $3.9k
Win/loss: +$500

10/17/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1.7k
Stack at LH: $5.2k
Win/loss: $3.3k

10/19/18
Stakes: 5/10
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $3.6k
Stack at LH: $7k
Win/loss: $3.4k

10/20/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $580 (in for 2.9k)
Stack at LH: $3.6k
Win/loss:+$700

10/24/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $7k
Win/loss: $6k

10/29/18
Stakes: 1/2/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1100
Stack at LH: $4.6k
Win/loss: $1.3k

11/7/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $2.2k
Stack at LH: $6k
Win/loss: +3.6k

11/21
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $9.2k
Win/loss: $7.2k

11/28
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $6.2k
Win/loss: $5.2k

12/5/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $1k
Stack at LH: $8.1k
Win/loss: $$7k

12/12/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $800
Stack at LH: $5.9k
Win/loss: $4.7k

12/15/18
Stakes: 1/3
Length of stream: 4 hrs
Stack at FH: $800
Stack at LH: $11.7k
Win/loss: $8.9k

12/17/18
Stakes: 1/2/3
Length of stream: 3 hrs
Stack at FH: $700
Stack at LH: $8.7k
Win/loss: $6k
Added $2k

12/26/18
Stakes: 5/5
Length of stream: 3 hrs
Stack at FH: $700
Stack at LH: $8.7k
Win/loss: $6k
Added $2k
Look at his progress as a poker player. He went from booking moderate wins (~$2000) in early 2018 to massive wins (~$6000) by the end of the year. He must’ve either:

a. Improved tremendously as a player
b. Went on an unreal heater
c. Got a lot better, greedy, and bold at cheating
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:10 PM   #1240
BamaWillBG
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primedirective@ View Post
If Phil Hellmuth was at this table, this thread would not exist...pissed and on a heater is not proof of cheating... where is the proof????

Skickat från min EVA-L09 via Tapatalk

Chris Moneymaker has been good friends with Mike Postle for 15+ years. After watching videos all night last night, even Chris is backing away from Mike. Moneymaker was loyal to his friend at first, but the preponderance of video evidence does not support Postle.

Postle tried to use Moneymaker’s just like he has used everyone else. Only for greed.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:11 PM   #1241
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Wait... I think the commentators are seeing the hands live. Don't streams usually have everything delayed to the commentators too? That is how they are doing live chats...
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:13 PM   #1242
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltyou View Post
Who would sit in this game with him after all this? How are you ever going to get a game going?
The wolf, Frank the tank and HK.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:13 PM   #1243
HarryKane09
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuitedJunk View Post
Wait... I think the commentators are seeing the hands live. Don't streams usually have everything delayed to the commentators too? That is how they are doing live chats...
it is delayed, the commentary team interact with chat in what would be 'real time' to them
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:14 PM   #1244
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)



Guys like this chiming in are better off starting a Gofundme for mikes family.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:16 PM   #1245
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

They are going live with their regular 5/5 NL stream tonight and just announced it on twitter. You have got to be kidding me.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:18 PM   #1246
HarryKane09
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

His winnings increasing as time goes on can be explained by how his play is influencing the game.

If you are a winning reg and play a 1/3 with him and he's constantly clowning around, and you see the holdings and plays, then you are gonna jump at the opportunity to play a deep 5/5 or 5/10 game.

And after a couple of months of this punishment, where this fish is crushing you constantly. Your confidence is ruined and you start punting around yourself to try and get out of this hole.

Imagine grinding out this game for dozens or hundreds of hours and this guy god moding you just destroying your hourly.

Him and Justin have not only stolen money, but confidence and time.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:20 PM   #1247
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7QrK6wYz0w

Hand at 4hrs 21mins. Mike punts a stack. Losing session.

No phone in lap. Guess where Justin Kuraitis is at this time? In Vegas.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:20 PM   #1248
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsabitFishy View Post


Guys like this chiming in are better off starting a Gofundme for mikes family.
Who the f is Jim treadwell
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:21 PM   #1249
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkatingIsTough View Post
They are going live with their regular 5/5 NL stream tonight and just announced it on twitter. You have got to be kidding me.
They had his brother on stream last night (the one who once said that Mike has never seen an angle he wouldn't shoot). There was some table talk about how the scandal is one big witch-hunt.

It's mind blowing how tone deaf they are.
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:21 PM   #1250
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkatingIsTough View Post
They are going live with their regular 5/5 NL stream tonight and just announced it on twitter. You have got to be kidding me.
exciting times on NVG
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