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Old 10-04-2020, 05:52 PM   #12001
Outoftime44444
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Postle is clearly not a public figure. He wasn't one before this started anyway.

Maybe Postle is looking for Stones to pay him off to drop the suit. They probably don't want to go through discovery etc.

Its a matter of public concern.... Casino security, on a live stream. Public theft of money for a casino recruiting celebrities from all over to play on TV. It is alleged cheating on a literal public promotion broadcast. Its such a matter for public concern, we have defendants from all of the world and united states, including ESPN.

Under California law, the plaintiff must affirmatively prove that the facts published were not a matter of legitimate public concern; otherwise, the claim fails.

The courts consider three factors when deciding whether facts are of legitimate public concern:

(1) the social value of the facts published;
(2) the depth of the intrusion into ostensibly private affairs; and
(3) the extent to which the plaintiff voluntarily assumed a position of public notoriety.

Most facts about celebrities and public officials are considered matters of legitimate public concern. Private facts about ordinary people involved in events or occurrences of public significance are of legitimate public concern if they bear a reasonable relationship to the newsworthy topic.

This will not be a jury decision, but a judicial one.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:13 PM   #12002
Jay Why
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Its a matter of public concern.... Casino security, on a live stream. Public theft of money for a casino recruiting celebrities from all over to play on TV. It is alleged cheating on a literal public promotion broadcast. Its such a matter for public concern, we have defendants from all of the world and united states, including ESPN.

Under California law, the plaintiff must affirmatively prove that the facts published were not a matter of legitimate public concern; otherwise, the claim fails.

The courts consider three factors when deciding whether facts are of legitimate public concern:

(1) the social value of the facts published;
(2) the depth of the intrusion into ostensibly private affairs; and
(3) the extent to which the plaintiff voluntarily assumed a position of public notoriety.

Most facts about celebrities and public officials are considered matters of legitimate public concern. Private facts about ordinary people involved in events or occurrences of public significance are of legitimate public concern if they bear a reasonable relationship to the newsworthy topic.

This will not be a jury decision, but a judicial one.
Postle has asked for this to go to jury, why do you say this will not be a jury decision, but a judicial one? Presumably judicial in whether the case can be heard, but if it is heard, then in will be jury decision.

It is amazing how self destructive poker players can be, Postle could have let the whole thing quietly disappear, but has chosen to gamble on winning a case that could ruin him if he loses, and the chances of winning do not seem high when one considers the valuable insights given by legal experts in this thread.

It must be that this has got so amazingly personal, I was surprised how much more than before Veronica is bitter and angry about Postle's betrayal of those who had befriended him at the poker table. Postle no doubt is equally getting enraged, as he is very delusional, so he seems to be taking on the whole poker world.

Postle went on Matusow's show, so was happy to appear publicly to discuss the case. He had live interview with Kuraitis, and often sat in to chat with the Stones commentators. He was barely known in the general poker world, but was a major figure at Stones poker.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:27 PM   #12003
Angry_Polak
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Postle is clearly not a public figure. He wasn't one before this started anyway.

Maybe Postle is looking for Stones to pay him off to drop the suit. They probably don't want to go through discovery etc.
lol at your profile pic. 94o
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:31 PM   #12004
Angry_Polak
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
Postle has asked for this to go to jury, why do you say this will not be a jury decision, but a judicial one? Presumably judicial in whether the case can be heard, but if it is heard, then in will be jury decision.

It is amazing how self destructive poker players can be, Postle could have let the whole thing quietly disappear, but has chosen to gamble on winning a case that could ruin him if he loses, and the chances of winning do not seem high when one considers the valuable insights given by legal experts in this thread.

It must be that this has got so amazingly personal, I was surprised how much more than before Veronica is bitter and angry about Postle's betrayal of those who had befriended him at the poker table. Postle no doubt is equally getting enraged, as he is very delusional, so he seems to be taking on the whole poker world.

Postle went on Matusow's show, so was happy to appear publicly to discuss the case. He had live interview with Kuraitis, and often sat in to chat with the Stones commentators. He was barely known in the general poker world, but was a major figure at Stones poker.
Please don't make claims about knowing my personal feelings towards any of this. Because I am persistent and sometimes loud does not mean that i am bitter. Also, my feelings do not matter in any of this. He got caught cheating and he isn't aware how how much worse this could potentially get for him.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:43 PM   #12005
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Its a matter of public concern....
Oot, it’s a multi-count complaint that has libel per se and slander per se counts. Generally, most states allow for defamation per se claims which are basically calling someone a cheater, thief or criminal when they are not. Damages are presumed to be caused by falsely accusing people of these acts so they are slightly easier to prove.

The public concern cite probably applies to false claims not falling into these categories (like alleging someone is bad parent or difficult to work for).
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:45 PM   #12006
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
Please don't make claims about knowing my personal feelings towards any of this. Because I am persistent and sometimes loud does not mean that i am bitter. Also, my feelings do not matter in any of this. He got caught cheating and he isn't aware how how much worse this could potentially get for him.
Triple down! I like it.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:46 PM   #12007
Outoftime44444
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
Postle has asked for this to go to jury, why do you say this will not be a jury decision, but a judicial one? Presumably judicial in whether the case can be heard, but if it is heard, then in will be jury decision.

It is amazing how self destructive poker players can be, Postle could have let the whole thing quietly disappear, but has chosen to gamble on winning a case that could ruin him if he loses, and the chances of winning do not seem high when one considers the valuable insights given by legal experts in this thread.

It must be that this has got so amazingly personal, I was surprised how much more than before Veronica is bitter and angry about Postle's betrayal of those who had befriended him at the poker table. Postle no doubt is equally getting enraged, as he is very delusional, so he seems to be taking on the whole poker world.

Postle went on Matusow's show, so was happy to appear publicly to discuss the case. He had live interview with Kuraitis, and often sat in to chat with the Stones commentators. He was barely known in the general poker world, but was a major figure at Stones poker.
Whether its a matter of public concern or private is a matter of law, not a question of fact.

Questions of fact go to jury. Questions of law the judge.

The Judge determines whether to tell the jury if they have to find malice or not.
“The question whether a plaintiff is a public figure [or not] is to be determined by the court, not the jury.” (Stolz v. KSFM 102 FM (1994) 30 Cal.App.4th 195,203–204.)

If its public concern, Postle has to prove malice. If its private concern, Postle does not have to prove malice.

“Malice” means conduct which is intended by the defendant to cause injury to the plaintiff or despicable conduct which is carried on by the defendant with a willful and conscious disregard of the rights or safety of others.

Malice is VERY hard to prove. How can Postle claim Dan N and SVP are out to get him? It requires proving intent. ESPN has an intent to harm Postle? Hard to prove.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:49 PM   #12008
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Oot, it’s a multi-count complaint that has libel per se and slander per se counts. Generally, most states allow for defamation per se claims which are basically calling someone a cheater, thief or criminal when they are not. Damages are presumed to be caused by falsely accusing people of these acts so they are slightly easier to prove.

The public concern cite probably applies to false claims not falling into these categories (like alleging someone is bad parent or difficult to work for).
Great point. Defamation per se is rare but does exist and may be just this situation...

Ill have to look at the complaint more closely....
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:52 PM   #12009
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Triple down! I like it.
thanks Lance
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:57 PM   #12010
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Postle chose to appear on a live stream knowing people would view and comment on his play. Well guess what, we commented.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:21 PM   #12011
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
thanks Lance
Paranoia or Sunday edibles?
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:22 PM   #12012
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
Great point. Defamation per se is rare but does exist and may be just this situation...

Ill have to look at the complaint more closely....
If you get a copy, please post it.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:29 PM   #12013
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
Please don't make claims about knowing my personal feelings towards any of this. Because I am persistent and sometimes loud does not mean that i am bitter. Also, my feelings do not matter in any of this. He got caught cheating and he isn't aware how how much worse this could potentially get for him.
Veronica, I remember looking at your early interviews, and then thought there was a big change when I saw your recent interview Veronica Brill & Wired Magazine's Postle Investigator Brendan Koerner! - The Rake E051 and it struck me that this whole experience has made you very bitter, as you are angry about so many people and things.

OK, you dont think you are bitter, but I think the things you say in that interview are very bitter, and sometimes unpleasant, like you saying in that interview you want to punch people in the face who ask why you had Postle in your games if you had suspicions about him. That is in fact nothing more than a commonsense question.

If he loses his case his legal costs will be sky high, and will swallow up his Stones winnings. That is a gamble not worth him taking.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:35 PM   #12014
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
If he loses his case his legal costs will be sky high, and will swallow up his Stones winnings. That is a gamble not worth him taking.
I would be surprised if his lawyers ever get a dime from him unless they take it out of the court winnings.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:10 PM   #12015
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
It is amazing how self destructive poker players can be, Postle could have let the whole thing quietly disappear, but has chosen to gamble on winning a case that could ruin him if he loses, and the chances of winning do not seem high when one considers the valuable insights given by legal experts in this thread.

It must be that this has got so amazingly personal, I was surprised how much more than before Veronica is bitter and angry about Postle's betrayal of those who had befriended him at the poker table. Postle no doubt is equally getting enraged, as he is very delusional, so he seems to be taking on the whole poker world.
Doesn't seem like much of a gamble on his part when he's got nothing left to lose. I think anyone in his situation would be willing to throw up this hail mary.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:11 PM   #12016
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Still looking for people who will bet that Postle will get less than $1. I'll even give you +150 up to 3k.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:13 PM   #12017
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I would be surprised if his lawyers ever get a dime from him unless they take it out of the court winnings.
That would only be true it they think they have a good case. If they think the case is shaky they won't go out on a financial limb and Postle will have to pay them for their time and expenses win or lose. Any lawyers on this forum can spread more light on how this is usually done and how much it might cost him.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:23 PM   #12018
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Old 10-04-2020, 08:34 PM   #12019
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
Please don't make claims about knowing my personal feelings towards any of this. Because I am persistent and sometimes loud does not mean that i am bitter. Also, my feelings do not matter in any of this. He got caught cheating and he isn't aware how how much worse this could potentially get for him.
or, vis versa
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:18 PM   #12020
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This lawsuit is as brazen as his alleged cheating.

He must have found a lawyer willing to take it on a contingency fee basis.
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:21 PM   #12021
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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. . . Im a lawyer also . . .

Id like to paraphrase a judgement . . ..
Do you practice in England?
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:25 PM   #12022
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If Stones believes there was no wrongdoing, why don't they start the live stream back up? (even for a much smaller game)
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:23 PM   #12023
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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If Stones believes there was no wrongdoing, why don't they start the live stream back up? (even for a much smaller game)
Covid response in California has made it impossible to have any sort of live public game.

Still looking for action on postle not getting $1. I'll up it to +190 up to 3k.
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Old 10-05-2020, 02:09 AM   #12024
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I would be willing to bet he does not obtain an favorable adjudication of his claims by the judge or jury. In other words, no finding that he has meritorious claims.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:47 AM   #12025
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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The defendants own attorney made a statement of no wrong doing found and no evidence to support their claims. Its already been stated and accepted in court by the named defendants attorney that they couldnt prove it.
Who were the defendants in the first case? No wrong doing by whom? If the plaintiff in the first case couldn't prove a case against Stones then, that's different than not being able to prove a case against Postle now, or defend against a defamation suit. And wasn't the first case dismissed without a trial? Moreover, what lawyers say at a trial or a hearing isn't evidence. And different lawyers may be involved in a defamation suit.

Quote:
Im a lawyer also. Veronica and Joey Ingram did about everything wrong that they could do wrong here, given they had no physical proof. They cant prove the claims they can only make assumptions.
They certainly went way out on a limb, and also some supposed defendants made statements they probably shouldn't have after the suit was threatened. I say supposed because we don't know if a suit was actually filed. The court had no record of it online.
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