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Old 09-21-2020, 09:39 AM   #11576
Loctus
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Jesus, the meltdown just continues. This is so bizzare

https://twitter.com/JFKPokerTD/statu...73699647741952
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:51 AM   #11577
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Old 09-21-2020, 12:52 PM   #11578
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous View Post
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2020/...ment-37983.htm
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:41 PM   #11579
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Old 09-21-2020, 01:47 PM   #11580
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

^^^ This is really cool, major props to Phil for doing this ^^^
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:54 PM   #11581
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous View Post
Thanks for posting this. Its a great read for anyone who is yet to do so.

Veronica I know you read this, I'm sure we can arrange a crowdfunding plan amongst the poker community in the event that Postle brings a suit against you. I would be happy to chip in.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:55 PM   #11582
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Stupor View Post
When you are discussing a poker player outing a poker cheat and you talk about “post exercise reviews” you do sound like a moron sorry

You keep saying “they” without answering the question about who you are referring to. You also didn’t answer the question about whether your statement that she was talking to Joe Ingram before going public is factual.

And yes, we do know the Postle cheating stopped. Only way you could doubt this is if you are in denial that he was cheating, which judging by some of your other posting actually wouldn’t be a big surprise
These days I am trying to avoid dragged out one to one conversations like this by shifting to PM, or by blocking if I think the other is a troll. I dont think you are a troll, and I do think you are like me in saying what you think. So Ok, to answer the questions, Joey mentioned that Veronica had contacted him with her suspicions, asking what she should do next. I think that is great, as I am a big fan of Joey's independent nature, and it is a strange reflection on poker that one has to reach out to Joey to get problems looked at independently, poker is still wild west and unregulated, so every sod is busy cheating every other sod, and there is rarely any comeback for justice.

So the "they" I referred to was Veronica, Joey, Lawyer Mac, and anyone else consulted before airing the doubts publicly.

I am sure in your line of work, whatever it is, you use short terms for specific ways you do your job, in my work we talk about "post exercise reviews", sorry that you dont like that term, but that is what we call them. What term would you prefer we bloody use when we are looking at the work we have done, to see what could have been done better? Or dont you ever try to improve?

How the hell do you know there is not a new Postle out there doing whatever he did? Until you get it into your head that without finding out what he did, one can't stop others doing the same thing, you will get nowhere. I said from day one he was cheating, you are too stupid to check your facts before talking your nonsense about me, hence my adding you to my block list as why talk with someone who does not check what they say before they say it.
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Old 09-21-2020, 01:55 PM   #11583
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Will take some massively impressive screen scraping and coding to get that done, but maybe I'm just unaware of what level tech is at these days

Will need to be sorted through individual sessions too to sort through the sessions he wasn't god-moding (there are sessions where he didnt, where the whole thing with connecting this to JFK/other techs being in/out of town etc comes from). The data will both probably be able to do that quite easily, but also be required for removing the "bad parts"/non cheating of the cheating sample so to speak...
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:04 PM   #11584
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The other gigantic red flag is that Postle not only never took his god-like poker stills to any other casinos, but not even any other games at Stones itself. So you have a guy with an unbelievable win rate, making unbelievable plays only in one game that happens to be broadcast using RFID cards.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:33 PM   #11585
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

And now Mike has quit poker completely and given a million chances to provide any kind of proof or refute the evidence, has simply attacked Veronica and others and said nothing other than "I didn't do it."
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:42 PM   #11586
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
Will take some massively impressive screen scraping and coding to get that done, but maybe I'm just unaware of what level tech is at these days

Will need to be sorted through individual sessions too to sort through the sessions he wasn't god-moding (there are sessions where he didnt, where the whole thing with connecting this to JFK/other techs being in/out of town etc comes from). The data will both probably be able to do that quite easily, but also be required for removing the "bad parts"/non cheating of the cheating sample so to speak...
I kind of thought this too about the screen scraping. It's not that straight forward(having transcribed 4 of the streams myself.) It's very manual to capture all the details and ensure accuracy because you don't want to simply rely on the graphics.

Good point about segregating the data as well. It's not that clean cut where you can just look at it as a whole.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:46 PM   #11587
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
And now Mike has quit poker completely and given a million chances to provide any kind of proof or refute the evidence, has simply attacked Veronica and others and said nothing other than "I didn't do it."
Yeah if I was him and really innocent and that good, I would try to get back on stream and crush as soon as possible. Best player ever, but decided to quit instead of proving everyone wrong while making money. Makes total sense.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:48 PM   #11588
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
There were no Rule 26 initial disclosures?
I think it depends on the local rules. My recollection is that disclosures become due when the case is "at issue," that is, when the defendant files an answer. If a motion to dismiss had been filed, there would've been no need to file an answer. Plus, a party only must "disclose" evidence that it intends to use to support its claims. There is no requirement to turn over harmful evidence.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:11 PM   #11589
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It's so patently obvious that Postle cheated. I'm not sure why anyone is wasting their time trying to find more evidence/confirm evidence at this point. Justin and/or Postle will never admit to anything even if a court found them guilty. There is no karma, and there is little justice in this world. Lets just hope their next cheat (Postle will obviously try to pull another scam, poker related or not) will have actual legal ramifications.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:01 PM   #11590
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Its so bizarre that instead of Justin saying he didn't know what was going on he is spending vast resources trying to "prove" Postle was innocent.

Whoever told you this was a good idea is an idiot.

Its just going to make people angry who will then work harder to find stuff against you.

Well done you.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:09 PM   #11591
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
Its so bizarre that instead of Justin saying he didn't know what was going on he is spending vast resources trying to "prove" Postle was innocent.
It doesn't make any sense. If Justin wasn't involved, then why would he be so interested in showing Postle didn't cheat.

Also, Justin continuing to tweet as Stones' tournament director shows Stones still has no control over Justin and maybe doesn't care if the poker games are rigged.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:19 PM   #11592
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yeah I feel like a more reasonable person would've said something along the lines of, there was no cheating as far as he was aware, but given what's been presented there's certainly some possibility.

Or anything other than ,"The courts said Postle didn't cheat. In your faces everybody herp derp!"1
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:24 PM   #11593
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yea that's the thing. Is JFK a sociopath co-conspirator or a 50IQ potato? It's still very unclear, but it's either or. Or both. But not neither. It's one or two of the options
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:39 PM   #11594
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy Gee View Post
I think it depends on the local rules. My recollection is that disclosures become due when the case is "at issue," that is, when the defendant files an answer. If a motion to dismiss had been filed, there would've been no need to file an answer. Plus, a party only must "disclose" evidence that it intends to use to support its claims. There is no requirement to turn over harmful evidence.

I don’t see the “at issue” in the rule but haven’t looked at the local rules. Certainly, not everything useful gets turned over in the initial disclosure. However, the language Mac agreed to in the settlement agreement implies he was provided something. If it doesn’t refer to any completed discovery (because there was none) or the mandatory turnover of items in the initial disclosures, I am at a loss as to what information was referenced.


(a) Required Disclosures.

(1) Initial Disclosure.

(A) In General. Except as exempted by Rule 26(a)(1)(B) or as otherwise stipulated or ordered by the court, a party must, without awaiting a discovery request, provide to the other parties:

(i) the name and, if known, the address and telephone number of each individual likely to have discoverable information—along with the subjects of that information—that the disclosing party may use to support its claims or defenses, unless the use would be solely for impeachment;

(ii) a copy—or a description by category and location—of all documents, electronically stored information, and tangible things that the disclosing party has in its possession, custody, or control and may use to support its claims or defenses, unless the use would be solely for impeachment;

(iii) a computation of each category of damages claimed by the disclosing party—who must also make available for inspection and copying as under Rule 34 the documents or other evidentiary material, unless privileged or protected from disclosure, on which each computation is based, including materials bearing on the nature and extent of injuries suffered; and

(iv) for inspection and copying as under Rule 34, any insurance agreement under which an insurance business may be liable to satisfy all or part of a possible judgment in the action or to indemnify or reimburse for payments made to satisfy the judgment.

(B) Proceedings Exempt from Initial Disclosure. The following proceedings are exempt from initial disclosure:

(i) an action for review on an administrative record;

(ii) a forfeiture action in rem arising from a federal statute;

(iii) a petition for habeas corpus or any other proceeding to challenge a criminal conviction or sentence;

(iv) an action brought without an attorney by a person in the custody of the United States, a state, or a state subdivision;

(v) an action to enforce or quash an administrative summons or subpoena;

(vi) an action by the United States to recover benefit payments;

(vii) an action by the United States to collect on a student loan guaranteed by the United States;

(viii) a proceeding ancillary to a proceeding in another court; and

(ix) an action to enforce an arbitration award.

(C) Time for Initial Disclosures—In General. A party must make the initial disclosures at or within 14 days after the parties’ Rule 26(f) conference unless a different time is set by stipulation or court order, or unless a party objects during the conference that initial disclosures are not appropriate in this action and states the objection in the proposed discovery plan. In ruling on the objection, the court must determine what disclosures, if any, are to be made and must set the time for disclosure.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:45 PM   #11595
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Why is JFK still employed at Stones? Who is his boss? Why would you keep someone on the payroll who not only seems like he was involved in a giant cheating scheme, but has some of the worst PR skills in the world by constantly tweeting about it and attacking people?
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:04 PM   #11596
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Just one thing I would like to add, if the amount as reported is correct

(just over $600 a person minus Lawyer fees)

Would you sign your name to that statement for that amount?

I know Veronica has said she didnt.

I wonder how many did?
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:19 PM   #11597
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Justin's been prattling on about the inaccuracy of the amount won by Postle, but hasn't actually offered what he thinks the true number is. So I looked up the rounderlife article he mentioned. As an aside, the website design is absolutely awful and painful on the eyes, and the content isn't much better, so I'm pretty sure it was ignored because of these reasons and not confirmation bias.

Nevertheless, they finally present a table of 14 sessions and the discrepancy between the widely accepted count and their own count.

One date jumped out at me -- 10/20/18 -- because Rounderlife lists Postle as only a $30 winner, and I know that's completely wrong because I was seated in the game next to Postle that night. I remember he ended the stream up ~2kish because he made a very interesting lay down in order to lock up his profit.

I just rewatched the whole stream, and verified that Mike was in for $1500 (initial $500, added on $1000), and ended the stream with $3600, for a profit of $2100.

The widely referenced count is $3019, and was off because they fully admit they didn't track rebuys/add-ons. But, I can tell you that Postle was not often adding on in these games because he was crushing them.

The article says Rounderlife didn't actually go through all the sessions, and instead extrapolated the amount of the error from this 14 hand sample (???). So, I don't think we're going to find a 100k discrepancy, but regardless win-rate isn't the only one reason Postle's play looks suspicious.

To recap, here are some other reasons Postle's play is highly suspicious, beyond winrate:

- In individual hands, he takes completely unorthodox lines that make A LOT more sense if he knew the hands.

- His play is wildly inconsistent: sometimes he check/calls with very strong hands, and other times he will blast off and extract razor thin value. The one constant is his action is ALWAYS exactly right against the specific hand of his opponent.

- His physical posture changes from relaxed, cap backwards, phone on the rail to cap forward, head buried in crotch, phone between his legs for an 14 month span that directly coincides to the greatest winning streak ever caught on camera.

- Despite being a self proclaimed feel, read-based player, during his 14 month heater where he was making ALL the right decisions, he almost never ventured outside of the livestreamed 1/3 or 2/5 games. He racked up as soon as the livestream ended. He didn't play in any bigger games despite it being the same player pool.

Last edited by pollywog1; 09-21-2020 at 05:30 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:31 PM   #11598
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pollywog1 View Post
Justin's been prattling on about the inaccuracy of the amount won by Postle, but hasn't actually offered what he thinks the true number is. So I looked up the rounderlife article he mentioned. As an aside, the website design is absolutely awful and painful on the eyes, and the content isn't much better, so I'm pretty sure it was ignored because of these reasons and not confirmation bias.

Nevertheless, they finally present a table of 14 sessions and the discrepancy between the widely accepted count and their own count.

One date jumped out at me -- 10/20/18 -- because Rounderlife lists Postle as only a $30 winner, and I know that's completely wrong because I was seated in the game next to Postle that night. I remember he ended the stream up ~2kish because he made a very interesting lay down in order to lock up his profit.

I just rewatched the whole stream, and verified that Mike was in for $1500 (initial $500, added on $1000), and ended the stream with $3600, for a profit of $2100.

The widely referenced count is $3019, and was off because they fully admit they didn't track rebuys/add-ons. But, I can tell you that Postle was not often adding on in these games because he was crushing them.

The article says Rounderlife didn't actually go through all the sessions, and instead extrapolated the total money won from this 14 hand sample. So, I don't think we're going to find a 100k discrepancy, but even if we do the total money won/win-rate is only one reason Postle's play looks suspiciously.

To recap, here are some other reasons Postle's play is highly suspicious, beyond winrate:

- In individual hands, he takes completely unorthodox lines that make A LOT more sense if he knew the hands.

- His play is wildly inconsistent: sometimes he check/calls with very strong hands, and other times he will blast off and extract razor thin value. The one constant is his action is ALWAYS exactly right against the specific hand of his opponent.

- His physical posture changes from relaxed, cap backwards, phone on the rail to cap forward, head buried in crotch, phone between his legs for an 14 month span that directly coincides to the greatest winning streak ever caught on camera.

- Despite being a self proclaimed feel, read-based player, during his 14 month heater where he was making ALL the right decisions, he almost never ventured outside of the livestreamed 1/3 or 2/5 games. He racked up as soon as the livestream ended. He didn't play in any bigger games despite it being the same player pool.
Yeah their numbers are wrong too. I cross checked a couple sessions with ones I had fully transcribed. I think I'm going to go ahead and finish what I started. I am confident in my numbers because I actually go hand by hand and visually verify the bets and stacks, not just rely on the graphics which often round up or down or are flat out wrong. They got better later on, but in the earlier streams there were a lot of errors. Even the commentators would regularly get the action or bet sizes incorrect. To get accurate info you just simply need to watch with close attention to detail.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:32 PM   #11599
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think Phil Galfond and Bart Hanson have the correct approach.

You statistically analyze his actions.

If he shoved 50 times into a weak range and never into strong hands....
That would be almost statistically impossible.

If he shoved/raised 100% of chopped hands then its pretty clear also.

If he folds or only calls against a strong range with a strong hand....

I watched Bart Hanson's recent analysis video and one thing that struck me
from the 54o hand..... I don't know if Mike is smart enough to know the equities in that spot.
He doesn't strike me as a math guy.
I wonder if there was outside help plugging in the numbers, telling him what to do in various spots?

I would analyze if he made many equity mistakes, especially close decisions.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:32 PM   #11600
Mason Malmuth
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilowatt View Post
Yup. The constant Twitter troll attacks on Veronica (and even a few here) are particularly infuriating to watch.

She did something selfless and took a fair amount of reputational risk by coming forward with this, and she's taking needless abuse from idiots trying to question her motives.

I expected it from Postle's low-life buddies, but everyone else doing it should be ashamed of themselves.
Hi Kilowatt:

I agree completely. It's shameful, and I'm sure you'll agree, when people write things about others which are not true and are designed to make someone look bad. For example. here's a post that was written about me (and the foundation my wife and I have) on another web site:

Honestly I thought the $270k figure he dropped was very un-Mason-like.

Mason is known to be an extremely selfish and greedy person. That's why he did outrageous things such as restrict strategy discussions on 2+2 because he was afraid people wouldn't buy his books if they could discuss strategy for free (seriously).

He's also obsessed with "spam" and doesn't allow anyone to link anything to their own site, no matter how relevant their material is to the discussion. Even if your site broke the story being discussed on 2+2, you can't link to it.

He is a hard-ass who only cares about himself, which is why I was shocked at the claim that he handed out $270k to charity.

Tennis lessons are a very strange thing to give away for "charity", as well. Do you know of any impoverished kids whose dream it is to play tennis? No. What's next? Golf and polo for poor kids?

I am assuming there has to be some angle to this. If there isn't, LOL @ wasting $270k on charity tennis lessons, when you could be using that money to feed and clothe the poor.


By my count it contains six false statements, and for those interested, it's Post #8 in this thread:

https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...ason+Charmaine

Best wishes,
Mason
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