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Old 09-19-2020, 05:19 PM   #11526
BartHanson
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Bart, good video. On the ak, ak, 54 hand, how do you respond to the fact that your equities are wrong because, assuming MP was seeing all the hole cards, he would have viewed two 4s in other players hands, lowering his equity below 33%, making it a no-call situation?

(I always thought this was a poor hand to show he cheated because he is behind, aand not getting the right odds to call the all in bets. Plus, the advantage of the hole card information increase significantly once you know all the community cards or, at minimum, the flop and you have chips left to bet.)
I appreciate the warm words. The video took painstakingly long to produce and 95% of it was finding the hands and editing them together to be able to get a consumable length to cover 20 hands. The actual voicing part was easy. Because of the process I now have easy access to all of the hands and can link you to the hand in question here:

https://youtu.be/

It starts at 3:06:30 of the $5/$5/$10 Postle and Pals! with Sean Thomas and Chris Glasgow 5/4/19 episode.

Jeff Boski gets dealt T4os from S1, and then S3 (who is away from the table) is dealt J4os. Those hands are folded in the first 10 seconds before there is even any significant action. Postle cant be looking at his phone all the time, there is no reason to until at least there is a decision to be made. Why would he stare at a bunch of garbage preflop hands. I would say there is a 99% chance that he would not have seen these hands folded.

Also when the actual decision needs to be made the graphics show him at 42% vs the other hands and I am assuming that it is not taking into account the folded cards.

Lastly the purpose of the video was to show how egregious his decision making process would be if straight. When we are at the table we dont know that two other 4s have been folded when we are considering calling two all ins with 54os. The equities I displayed don't account for dead cards because in reality we don't know what the dead cards are.

Last edited by BartHanson; 09-19-2020 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 09-19-2020, 05:28 PM   #11527
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
It would depend on what the investigations uncovered. If it were money laundering suspected by Kuraitis and Postle for example, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network would investigate.
I thought the whole point of your post was not to alert suspicion that people were trying to investigate them.
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Old 09-19-2020, 05:39 PM   #11528
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
I thought the whole point of your post was not to alert suspicion that people were trying to investigate them.
It is, they don't tell people they are investigating them, unlike Veronica who told the world, including Postle, and Kuraitis, that there were suspicions.
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Old 09-19-2020, 05:40 PM   #11529
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
This is all ofc true. The problem is that it doesn't really help that it's true, none of these things changes anyones mind. Because anyone thinking Postle isn't guilty is far too dumb/unknowledgeable about poker to understand why what you write is so blatantly true. And those who understand it already know Postle is guilty
yeah. unfortunately I agree with you as well
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Old 09-19-2020, 06:10 PM   #11530
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
I appreciate the warm words. The video took painstakingly long to produce and 95% of it was finding the hands and editing them together to be able to get a consumable length to cover 20 hands. The actual voicing part was easy. Because of the process I now have easy access to all of the hands and can link you to the hand in question here:

https://youtu.be/

It starts at 3:06:30 of the $5/$5/$10 Postle and Pals! with Sean Thomas and Chris Glasgow 5/4/19 episode.

Jeff Boski gets dealt T4os from S1, and then S3 (who is away from the table) is dealt J4os. Those hands are folded in the first 10 seconds before there is even any significant action. Postle cant be looking at his phone all the time, there is no reason to until at least there is a decision to be made. Why would he stare at a bunch of garbage preflop hands. I would say there is a 99% chance that he would not have seen these hands folded.

Also when the actual decision needs to be made the graphics show him at 42% vs the other hands and I am assuming that it is not taking into account the folded cards.

Lastly the purpose of the video was to show how egregious his decision making process would be if straight. When we are at the table we dont know that two other 4s have been folded when we are considering calling two all ins with 54os. The equities I displayed don't account for dead cards because in reality we don't know what the dead cards are.

I tweeted this in that thread just now but with all the dead cards considered not just the two 4’s, the 45 has 42.7% equity per poker cruncher.
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Old 09-19-2020, 06:19 PM   #11531
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by pollywog1 View Post
If Postle was accessing something other than the processed feed, he wouldn't have the equities as you see them.

It's also likely Postle was not tracking every card preflop. He was looking for opportunities to play as many hands as possible because of the tremendous implied odds, and a lot of his preflop considerations of other players' cards were to determine whether to call or raise preflop, and not looking to fold due to a few percentages of equity.
Why does no one suspect anyone other than JFK of being in with Postle? Why not suspect one of the techs or someone else with access to the live feeds? When you combine the crotch staring, stuffed helmet, and excessive length of time before acting, it’s obvious he’s being fed info.

Off topic, Bart Hanson the man. CLP is great training site and he has done a ton of research on this situation in order to give an educated opinion.
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Old 09-19-2020, 06:34 PM   #11532
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Why does no one suspect anyone other than JFK of being in with Postle? Why not suspect one of the techs or someone else with access to the live feeds? When you combine the crotch staring, stuffed helmet, and excessive length of time before acting, it’s obvious he’s being fed info.

Off topic, Bart Hanson the man. CLP is great training site and he has done a ton of research on this situation in order to give an educated opinion.
Yeah it's definitely possible and probable. I think people are focused on JFK because he's the loudest defender. Also given the position he's in, his statements and behavior are completely bizarre for an innocent, rational person to have.
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Old 09-19-2020, 07:15 PM   #11533
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
A smoking un is if he was wearing a bone conductor device, they could have got him using that red handed and taken it from him during a stream and shown it was transmitting live hole card information to him.

They could also have placed cameras in the room where the production staff were working to see how they were communicating with Postle, and how they were monitoring the action on the table.

They could have monitored Kuraitis and Postle, to build up a picture of their collaborative relationship outside the casino.

They could have looked at Kuraitis accounts to see if money was transferred to him from Postle, as Postle was winning, so would have had to pass Kuraitis his share.

They could have spent more time looking at the film if the game they were so suspicious about, to see what looked odd about them. As soon as the public saw the constant looking down was commented on, why didnt those with the suspicions take the time to look at what they were concerned about, before going public with vague allegations that they thought he was cheating but they didn't know how.

They could have placed cameras to record the seat Postle always sat at, so they could show what he was looking at on his phone under the table.

The list of missed opportunities to get the evidence together goes on and on. So circumstantially it is clear he did it, but at present as it stands, no definitive evidence has been presented publicly.
they did. you are seeing the action tracking version of the game, the camera on mike's seat (and everyone's seat) is constantly recording. the tech in the back can see all of the cameras at all times.
also this is a CASINO!! there are cameras EVERYWHERE. they were on Justin and mike. the problem is it was happening on the inside and the casino security just watch players.
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Old 09-19-2020, 07:25 PM   #11534
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
they did. you are seeing the action tracking version of the game, the camera on mike's seat (and everyone's seat) is constantly recording. the tech in the back can see all of the cameras at all times.
also this is a CASINO!! there are cameras EVERYWHERE. they were on Justin and mike. the problem is it was happening on the inside and the casino security just watch players.
Unhappy, yet stunningly beautiful, polak, to the best of your knowledge has a criminal investigation been initiated? How do most people feel Postle accomplished his cheat, what methods?
Is Postle still allowed to play there? Does he? Do you?
There have to be others in the know; why, in your opinion, has no one ran their mouth and spilled the beans?
Thanks and good for you for having the courage to report him.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:00 PM   #11535
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by a dewd View Post
Whomever suggested it was crisis management I think nailed it. Occam's Razor and all that stuff....

I just saw him post that Stones is not funding it. Very odd.
Occam's Razor tells me Stones wants this story to disappear. No way they'd pay to keep it alive. Are you really saying Stones cares more about changing the narrative than having people forget the story altogether?
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:22 PM   #11536
Jay Why
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
they did. you are seeing the action tracking version of the game, the camera on mike's seat (and everyone's seat) is constantly recording. the tech in the back can see all of the cameras at all times.
also this is a CASINO!! there are cameras EVERYWHERE. they were on Justin and mike. the problem is it was happening on the inside and the casino security just watch players.
If you had watched the streams you would know that what you say is inaccurate, as the inside job meant he chose to sit at the same regular seat that had an angle of viewing that would not show his under the table activities. It was similarly easy for Kuraitis to get the secuity cameras not to look at that area closely. This is why he would need to be recorded by a non Stones camera he and the staff did not know was in place. The investigation was Veronica complaining to Kuraitis, and him saying it had been investigated, and her then going public with her doubts, with no attempt having made to think of how to catch him red handed.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:36 PM   #11537
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Justin seems to keep repeating the statement from the plaintiffs' lawyers that they didn't find any cheating, ignoring that it was obviously forced to the $40K.
Seems like very little, for a casino, getting off with what looks like attorney fees and rake LOL to put this behind them.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:41 PM   #11538
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Occam's Razor tells me Stones wants this story to disappear. No way they'd pay to keep it alive. Are you really saying Stones cares more about changing the narrative than having people forget the story altogether?
Yeah, they should, but dumb is winning that battle.

I was referring to why he is posting such utter stupidity and the concept of going on film. That is absolutely conjured up in some PR's office.
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Old 09-19-2020, 08:46 PM   #11539
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Carving out an exception for fraud in gambling makes 0 sense.
Really? What about fraud in drug dealing? Oh you meant legal activities. Ideally sure, but fraud should be punished whereever it occurs. But gambling is only legal because states have revenue needs, and Vegas. And now, Atlantic City and PA casinos pressure NY to legalize. And etc.

Gambling is bad for society. We know this. It's legal because well, America is freedom LOL.

It's legal because. But to go a step further and say the courts should resolve gambling disputes seems like a waste. We resolve real estate disputes because we want to protect people who participate in the real estate market as it's fundamental to our economy.

Gambling is not. also: gambling disputes are more difficult to resolve for many reasons inherent to gambling that gamblers would not be willing to change, primarily the cash, no record keeping nature of the activity.
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Old 09-20-2020, 04:16 AM   #11540
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
If you had watched the streams you would know that what you say is inaccurate, as the inside job meant he chose to sit at the same regular seat that had an angle of viewing that would not show his under the table activities. It was similarly easy for Kuraitis to get the secuity cameras not to look at that area closely. This is why he would need to be recorded by a non Stones camera he and the staff did not know was in place. The investigation was Veronica complaining to Kuraitis, and him saying it had been investigated, and her then going public with her doubts, with no attempt having made to think of how to catch him red handed.
Angry Polak has definitely watched the streams. And hopefully Angry Pollak will tell Veronica your thoughts and then can write Veronica's response on here.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:27 AM   #11541
treetop21
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Mac the lawyer has arranged a settlement where the defendants have all probably lost money (especially including his fees) and also given Postle and Justin a signed statement for them to wave in all our faces saying they have done nothing wrong. The lawsuit so far has been nothing short of disastrous in my eyes.

Last edited by treetop21; 09-20-2020 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Damn autocorrect
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:29 AM   #11542
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Mac the lawyer has arranged a settlement where the defendants have all probably lost money (especially including his fees) and also given Postle and Jason a signed statement for them to wave in all our faces saying they have done nothing wrong. The lawsuit so far has been nothing short of disastrous in my eyes.
The settlement statement doesn't mention Postle at all, afaik

By Jason I guess you mean Justin, btw
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:29 AM   #11543
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by treetop21 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Mac the lawyer has arranged a settlement where the defendants have all probably lost money (especially including his fees) and also given Postle and Jason a signed statement for them to wave in all our faces saying they have done nothing wrong. The lawsuit so far has been nothing short of disastrous in my eyes.
I had been thinking something along those lines as well, at least for Justin. Don't think it gives Postle much.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:40 AM   #11544
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
The settlement statement doesn't mention Postle at all, afaik

By Jason I guess you mean Justin, btw
Ty. FMP.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:42 AM   #11545
Jay Why
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by FlatTireSuited View Post
Angry Polak has definitely watched the streams. And hopefully Angry Pollak will tell Veronica your thoughts and then can write Veronica's response on here.
As Angry Polak is Veronica, it is possible she may indeed share her thoughts on the timing of the case. In retrospect I am sure those that brought the case wish they had taken more time to gather evidence before going public with their doubts, softly softly catchee monkey, not going on Twitter with your doubts before you have any evidence. It is surprising how badly it has turned out for them, Lawyer Mac said ahead of events that he wanted to use this case to gain recognition for his legal abilities, instead the case got thrown out for inadmissibility, which does not reflect well on his legal abilities at all. And those suing have not done well either. Postle however is laughing all the way to the bank, having won hundreds of thousands of dollars playing near perfect poker stream after stream.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:34 AM   #11546
Outoftime44444
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
PokerNews article by VerStandig


"Was the statement carefully worded to ensure I would not be signing my name to a falsity? Yes."
According to VerStandig - " And the court actually ruled in our favor – somewhat. For the first time in California history, we were allowed to proceed with a suit for gaming-centric losses; the one catch, though, is the recovery for most claims would be capped at the rake collected."

They could have continued the lawsuit, proceeding with discovery, deposed Postle and JFK, instead they settled what the rake would have been (40k? i hear?) and a daft statement.

After costs and fees the clients get $300-$400 a person? Was it worth it?

Stones basically gave back the rake for its crooked games to lawyers and 40 players and got away with it all.

Even IF Stones' employees were not involved, they still were massively negligent and seem to be negligent to this day with Justin still around running their social media and hyping up the settlement statement lol.

The time to investigate was during not while the games were going on but during the lawsuit. With the lawsuit they had free reign to subpoena and depose people. But Stones used the leverage of the capped damages and just paid peanuts- far less than it would have cost to defend the case in legal fees- likely Stones paid less than what it would have cost to defend even a few of its employees depositions.

Stones massive winner in all this.

0 depositions on the record. 0 discovery. 0 facts. They forced the settlement on the pleadings, meaning they got their way with just the allegations of the complaint and the law, before any facts came out in a public lawsuit.

Think about depositions- party's can attend depositions. The plaintiffs in this case could have sat in the room while Postle or JFK were grilled on their BS. But nope, Stones escaped.

California law doomed the case of course, but Stones settled for less than probably they pay a single employee in a wrongful termination settlement for an employee that deserved to be fired! In other words, I bet if they fired JFK and he sued them, he would get more than the total settlement for 60+ plaintiffs here.

Last edited by Outoftime44444; 09-20-2020 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:43 AM   #11547
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://youtu.be/cQkI_4pjmaw?t=1301
For the religious folks out there, clear as day evidence of some kind of angel/entity presence in the room, This is probably the strongest evidence exonerating him from cheating as if he's in contact with an angel the "God" narrative checks out, Postle=A postle=Jesus 12 apostles. Actually now that I think about it even if you are using some kind of supernatural power to see the cards it's still cheating and unethical, perhaps it's a demon of sorts. Things that make you go hmmm
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #11548
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It seems like a bad deal to make that statement and only get $40K. They had some leverage in that they could go the discovery and depositions. Not only could they grill the culprits, but they could present whatever evidence they found. I realize that it would have been somewhat expensive for both sides.
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Old 09-20-2020, 12:25 PM   #11549
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I tweeted this in that thread just now but with all the dead cards considered not just the two 4’s, the 45 has 42.7% equity per poker cruncher.
I wish you would've checked the set of kings on the turn.
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Old 09-20-2020, 01:19 PM   #11550
Angry_Polak
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Outoftime44444 View Post
According to VerStandig - " And the court actually ruled in our favor – somewhat. For the first time in California history, we were allowed to proceed with a suit for gaming-centric losses; the one catch, though, is the recovery for most claims would be capped at the rake collected."

They could have continued the lawsuit, proceeding with discovery, deposed Postle and JFK, instead they settled what the rake would have been (40k? i hear?) and a daft statement.

After costs and fees the clients get $300-$400 a person? Was it worth it?

Stones basically gave back the rake for its crooked games to lawyers and 40 players and got away with it all.

Even IF Stones' employees were not involved, they still were massively negligent and seem to be negligent to this day with Justin still around running their social media and hyping up the settlement statement lol.

The time to investigate was during not while the games were going on but during the lawsuit. With the lawsuit they had free reign to subpoena and depose people. But Stones used the leverage of the capped damages and just paid peanuts- far less than it would have cost to defend the case in legal fees- likely Stones paid less than what it would have cost to defend even a few of its employees depositions.

Stones massive winner in all this.

0 depositions on the record. 0 discovery. 0 facts. They forced the settlement on the pleadings, meaning they got their way with just the allegations of the complaint and the law, before any facts came out in a public lawsuit.

Think about depositions- party's can attend depositions. The plaintiffs in this case could have sat in the room while Postle or JFK were grilled on their BS. But nope, Stones escaped.

California law doomed the case of course, but Stones settled for less than probably they pay a single employee in a wrongful termination settlement for an employee that deserved to be fired! In other words, I bet if they fired JFK and he sued them, he would get more than the total settlement for 60+ plaintiffs here.
that is false! we could not do any discovery until the judge ruled not to dismiss. Our hands were tied. if the judge had allowed the case to move forward we were planning on getting phone records.

some people entertaining some sort of sting operation lead by those of us who thought he was cheating is lol.
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