Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2020, 02:05 AM   #11501
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,255
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Justin seems to keep repeating the statement from the plaintiffs' lawyers that they didn't find any cheating, ignoring that it was obviously forced to the $40K.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 02:21 AM   #11502
Angry_Polak
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)



this is one of the best tweets

Last edited by Angry_Polak; 09-19-2020 at 02:27 AM.
Angry_Polak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 03:07 AM   #11503
persianpunisher
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,416
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I still think this before and after the cheating started is by far the most compelling piece of evidence against Postle. https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comme...first_cheated/
persianpunisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 03:09 AM   #11504
MJ_Syd_Aus
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post


this is one of the best tweets
@Angry_Polak

I was a fan of the show / watched it along with Live @ The Bike. Question. Harlan seemed to be a damn good player and (looks like) the type of guy that would have a thing or two to say about all of this, as he was in the mix with MP quite a bit.

Have you spoken to him? Any thoughts from him?

(Edit: And I hope you find closure from all this drama and get "fun poker" back in your life. We all admire your courage.)
MJ_Syd_Aus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 03:15 AM   #11505
Angry_Polak
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 72
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ_Syd_Aus View Post
@Angry_Polak

I was a fan of the show / watched it along with Live @ The Bike. Question. Harlan seemed to be a damn good player and (looks like) the type of guy that would have a thing or two to say about all of this, as he was in the mix with MP quite a bit.

Have you spoken to him? Any thoughts from him?

(Edit: And I hope you find closure from all this drama and get "fun poker" back in your life. We all admire your courage.)
Harlan is a solid guy and has a business and life. he doesn't like getting involved in the madness. he was a part of the law suit.
he knows that Mike cheated
Angry_Polak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 04:31 AM   #11506
RunningIsNotAnOptn
journeyman
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 206
Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post


this is one of the best tweets

Jeeez ignore that clown

Postle cheated for sure though
RunningIsNotAnOptn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 07:28 AM   #11507
Wasted1337
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 25
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

For future cases like these i feel like there should be some kind of honey pot instated before going out with it publicly since it looks like its impossible to prove things like these after the fact. So catching the perpetrator with hand in the cookie jar is the best bet we have ?
Would just catching him using the software open on his phone be enough to win these cases ?
Wasted1337 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 08:36 AM   #11508
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,255
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The case was dismissed because the courts couldn't get involved in disputes between gamblers and it was impossible to determine the amount of damages. The plaintiffs didn't get to present any evidence, so it wouldn't matter how strong the proof was.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 08:43 AM   #11509
SinK
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 155
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Have peeps seen this interview with @Angry_Polak addressing Justin's weird-ass letter to us all?

https://www.poker.org/interview-vero...or-postlegate/
SinK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 10:44 AM   #11510
Jay Why
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lundun
Posts: 945
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasted1337 View Post
For future cases like these i feel like there should be some kind of honey pot instated before going out with it publicly since it looks like its impossible to prove things like these after the fact. So catching the perpetrator with hand in the cookie jar is the best bet we have ?
Would just catching him using the software open on his phone be enough to win these cases ?
The case was messed up when they went public with their suspicions before they had got any firm evidence on him.

No firm evidence has ever been presented. There is tons of circumstantial evidence of his impossible win rates, and unbelievably good play in very specific circumstances (when he played streamed games from Stones) but still no one has been able to prove what he did to get that.

But it was interesting to go back and read the first posts in this thread, and realise just how little progress was ever made in getting a smoking gun, because they blew the whistle too early.
Jay Why is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 11:44 AM   #11511
PointlessWords
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 68
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The cards changed midstream in a situation where it’s physically impossible for the reader to say oh I miss identified these two cards, here are the real ones.
PointlessWords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 11:45 AM   #11512
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,925
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post

But it was interesting to go back and read the first posts in this thread, and realise just how little progress was ever made in getting a smoking gun, because they blew the whistle too early.

With smoking gun, what do they get?
Civil case is still a no-go.
Better chance at a criminal charge, but you would have to convince the DA to prosecute.
AngusThermopyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 12:30 PM   #11513
Jay Why
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lundun
Posts: 945
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
With smoking gun, what do they get?
Civil case is still a no-go.
Better chance at a criminal charge, but you would have to convince the DA to prosecute.
A smoking un is if he was wearing a bone conductor device, they could have got him using that red handed and taken it from him during a stream and shown it was transmitting live hole card information to him.

They could also have placed cameras in the room where the production staff were working to see how they were communicating with Postle, and how they were monitoring the action on the table.

They could have monitored Kuraitis and Postle, to build up a picture of their collaborative relationship outside the casino.

They could have looked at Kuraitis accounts to see if money was transferred to him from Postle, as Postle was winning, so would have had to pass Kuraitis his share.

They could have spent more time looking at the film if the game they were so suspicious about, to see what looked odd about them. As soon as the public saw the constant looking down was commented on, why didnt those with the suspicions take the time to look at what they were concerned about, before going public with vague allegations that they thought he was cheating but they didn't know how.

They could have placed cameras to record the seat Postle always sat at, so they could show what he was looking at on his phone under the table.

The list of missed opportunities to get the evidence together goes on and on. So circumstantially it is clear he did it, but at present as it stands, no definitive evidence has been presented publicly.
Jay Why is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 12:32 PM   #11514
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,255
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Justin Kuraitis
@JFKPokerTD
Replying to
@DJohnsonsSWAG
Who cares.... but yes I have received lots of support from many people. They just don't want to get mobbed here on twitter.

Did you hear about the petition Stones players circulated to try to bring me back?
9:53 AM · Sep 18, 2020·Twitter for Android
I wonder how many signatures they got?
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 01:38 PM   #11515
Mr Spyutastic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Mr Spyutastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 12,216
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
I wonder how many signatures they got?
I'd set the line at 7.
Mr Spyutastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 01:41 PM   #11516
Mr Spyutastic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Mr Spyutastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 12,216
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
They could have looked at Kuraitis accounts to see if money was transferred to him from Postle, as Postle was winning, so would have had to pass Kuraitis his share.
Who is they and how would they look at his accounts?
Mr Spyutastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 02:19 PM   #11517
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,551
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Who is they and how would they look at his accounts?
The same people setting up the cameras in the casino to catch him, duh!
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 02:52 PM   #11518
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,925
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

PokerNews article by VerStandig


"Was the statement carefully worded to ensure I would not be signing my name to a falsity? Yes."
AngusThermopyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 03:31 PM   #11519
Jay Why
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lundun
Posts: 945
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Who is they and how would they look at his accounts?
It would depend on what the investigations uncovered. If it were money laundering suspected by Kuraitis and Postle for example, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network would investigate.
Jay Why is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 03:43 PM   #11520
TPeck
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 271
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

"I knew this would go nowhere but I printed off it regardless" -Big Mac
TPeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 03:58 PM   #11521
BartHanson
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 794
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords View Post
The cards changed midstream in a situation where it’s physically impossible for the reader to say oh I miss identified these two cards, here are the real ones.
A few months ago I actually thought that this was the smoking gun until I did more investigation on that hand. From my earlier post:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...ostcount=11335

"In fact, anytime the cards display for a player they can only be changed by manually overriding the system. That means the action tracker technician has to physically type in the players' hand from the selection of cards that is left in the deck, in real time. Anytime you see cards change in the middle of the hand, someone is changing them (the action tracker technician) at the exact time the hand is being played out. So anytime a hand is changed while the physical cards remain face down the tech is guessing as to what that player has. This is why on LATB you only see these manual types of overrides at the end of the hand, after showdown, because the physical act of the cards being turned over is the only way to tell what the player has. There are no backup hole card cameras.

In my research on this issue, however, I discovered that hands have been changed similar to the 89ss hand on Stones Live, in the past (during the middle of then hand). Again, each time that happens, the tech is making the change without actually knowing what the player holds. I spoke with a technician that worked at Stones between 2016-2017 (pre Postle) and he said that their were so many complaints from the players that the graphics were incorrect during a hand (mostly due to a sensor in another seat having a card dealt over it and registering as the card for that seat) that there was a culture of the action tracker technician changing the cards on his own--through pure conjecture--to make the hand make more sense. Normally this would happen when an aggressive action was made by Seat 1 or Seat 9 with a hand that made absolutely no sense -- like cold 4 betting with K3os, AND also the player next to that player (seat 2 or seat 8) 's cards not registering at all. If that sequence of events happened it was quite obvious that one of the S2 or S8's cards passed over the S1 or S9 player and registered as one of their cards. This of course did NOT happen in the Postle hand but the technician I talked to said that the action tracker tech would still sometimes change cards during hands on his own, even without an obvious fault in the readers."
BartHanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 04:32 PM   #11522
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,551
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BartHanson View Post
A few months ago I actually thought that this was the smoking gun until I did more investigation on that hand. From my earlier post. ."
Bart, good video. On the ak, ak, 54 hand, how do you respond to the fact that your equities are wrong because, assuming MP was seeing all the hole cards, he would have viewed two 4s in other players hands, lowering his equity below 33%, making it a no-call situation?

(I always thought this was a poor hand to show he cheated because he is behind, aand not getting the right odds to call the all in bets. Plus, the advantage of the hole card information increase significantly once you know all the community cards or, at minimum, the flop and you have chips left to bet.)

Last edited by jjjou812; 09-19-2020 at 04:39 PM.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 05:01 PM   #11523
ejames209
adept
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 6bet me's no. 1 fan's no. 1 fan
Posts: 1,144
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

We can either believe that Mike was working with incomplete information and never ever made a decision for stacks that was wrong in each scenario, such as running a theoretically correct bluff into the nuts or making a theoretically correct hero call vs the nuts (something that poker superbots Libratus and Pluribus did often because such situations occur frequently in poker) because he is just that good

or we can believe that his ability to escape these "cooler" situations was a product of him having more than the normal amount of information other players would have. i.e. he cheated.

If people want to believe that it is possible to avoid losing massive pots every single time (unless you get hero'd by a hand that should always fold, shout out to Rich with the A9 ) then that's fine. But you're just wrong, because that isn't how the game works.
ejames209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 05:06 PM   #11524
pollywog1
stranger
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 13
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
Bart, good video. On the ak, ak, 54 hand, how do you respond to the fact that your equities are wrong because, assuming MP was seeing all the hole cards, he would have viewed two 4s in other players hands, lowering his equity below 33%, making it a no-call situation?
If Postle was accessing something other than the processed feed, he wouldn't have the equities as you see them.

It's also likely Postle was not tracking every card preflop. He was looking for opportunities to play as many hands as possible because of the tremendous implied odds, and a lot of his preflop considerations of other players' cards were to determine whether to call or raise preflop, and not looking to fold due to a few percentages of equity.
pollywog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2020, 05:16 PM   #11525
Loctus
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Loctus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,324
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames209 View Post
We can either believe that Mike was working with incomplete information and never ever made a decision for stacks that was wrong in each scenario, such as running a theoretically correct bluff into the nuts or making a theoretically correct hero call vs the nuts (something that poker superbots Libratus and Pluribus did often because such situations occur frequently in poker) because he is just that good

or we can believe that his ability to escape these "cooler" situations was a product of him having more than the normal amount of information other players would have. i.e. he cheated.

If people want to believe that it is possible to avoid losing massive pots every single time (unless you get hero'd by a hand that should always fold, shout out to Rich with the A9 ) then that's fine. But you're just wrong, because that isn't how the game works.
This is all ofc true. The problem is that it doesn't really help that it's true, none of these things changes anyones mind. Because anyone thinking Postle isn't guilty is far too dumb/unknowledgeable about poker to understand why what you write is so blatantly true. And those who understand it already know Postle is guilty
Loctus is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive