Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-11-2020, 02:35 AM   #11201
Turdzilla
veteran
 
Turdzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: From here to eternity
Posts: 2,448
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
Are you serious? That’s weak. That comes across as petty and personal.

Casino absolutely failed in their duty to provide an honest game. I have (had) a 100% expectation that a licensed casino would do whatever they could to protect players. Legally.

It was in their business this crime went down. They profited off of it. They marketed him. They did an investigation. A weak one. It was 99.99% certain there was something amiss. Any experienced poker player could tell.

All I can is regardless of an antiquated law, this feels very wrong. An injustice tossed back in our face. It hurts my faith in the United States of America. That is there is zero literally recourse to someone stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars on camera from dozens of people.

I am in shock. Black mark on the US.

The American legal system is a sh**t show, but you are welcome to stop following our follies.
Turdzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 02:46 AM   #11202
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
All I can is regardless of an antiquated law, this feels very wrong. An injustice tossed back in our face. It hurts my faith in the United States of America. That is there is zero literally recourse to someone stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars on camera from dozens of people.

I am in shock. Black mark on the US.
Well, my understanding of the opinion is that there is no law allowing people to sue in civil court to settle gambling disputes. I don't know how state courts work, but the federal courts only have the jurisdiction granted them by the constitution and/or congress.

So it's not like these disputes are excluded due to antiquated values dating to the prelegal gambling days.

It is more like society, today's society, does not think the court system is an appropriate venue to settle gambling disputes, especially in situations where the amount of the money being disputed is in dispute.

Courts aren't very good venues to settle these sorts of claims, and would likely come to the wrong decision as often as not.

I'm actually glad there's an area where the government says less government is better. There should be more areas with less government.

Your statement that there is zero recourse is wrong. If the action is a crime, and you have evidence, the police will prosecute. Sadly here, there is no evidence of what happened, just a video recording of it happening. Somehow, that's not enough.

Maybe if the police weren't busy beating protestors ....
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 03:10 AM   #11203
golfnutt
banned
 
golfnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,969
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
Well, my understanding of the opinion is that there is no law allowing people to sue in civil court to settle gambling disputes. I don't know how state courts work, but the federal courts only have the jurisdiction granted them by the constitution and/or congress.

So it's not like these disputes are excluded due to antiquated values dating to the prelegal gambling days.

It is more like society, today's society, does not think the court system is an appropriate venue to settle gambling disputes, especially in situations where the amount of the money being disputed is in dispute.

Courts aren't very good venues to settle these sorts of claims, and would likely come to the wrong decision as often as not.

I'm actually glad there's an area where the government says less government is better. There should be more areas with less government.

Your statement that there is zero recourse is wrong. If the action is a crime, and you have evidence, the police will prosecute. Sadly here, there is no evidence of what happened, just a video recording of it happening. Somehow, that's not enough.

Maybe if the police weren't busy beating protestors ....

This goes far beyond a gambling dispute. This is in the same exact category as stealing from a casino.

You would be crushed on the spot if you tampered with an electronic device to gain an advantage over the casino. Arrested and jailed.

Why is it any different with players? Power.

This was a terrible ruling. My faith in our country to do what is ‘right’ has been damaged. That’s not a good thing. We all lose.
golfnutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 04:11 AM   #11204
KeithMM
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 802
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
if this case was not dismissed we could have had discovery. We could have subpoenaed the phone records of both mike, Justin and Kenny...possibly Taylor too. We could have scraped the servers.
I think that all will happen though with the Nevada case
Did the lawyer mess up and should he have got the marle case running first to get that discovery which would then have have brought new evidence to the California case which could have changed the basis of the lawsuit from a dispute between players to one between players and the casino with postle as an accomplice in effectively a fraud.
Or was the case time limited and had to be filed explaining why postle was ducking all attempts at being served.
KeithMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 08:24 AM   #11205
W0X0F
sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight
 
W0X0F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,700
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
All I can is regardless of an antiquated law, this feels very wrong. An injustice tossed back in our face. It hurts my faith in the United States of America. That is there is zero literally recourse to someone stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars on camera from dozens of people.

I am in shock. Black mark on the US.
I actually laughed out loud at this. With all that’s going on in this country right now, this is what hurts your faith in America. Priceless!
W0X0F is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 09:56 AM   #11206
prairiebreeze
Pooh-Bah
 
prairiebreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Saskatchewan. Don't @ me.
Posts: 3,560
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
I didn't realize she played with Postle all that often. Is her claim she suffered damages as a player?
She'd have to answer that herself. I have not read the complaint.

The Stones stream was a decent albeit small stream until they got into the "Postle is a God" rabbithole. Became completely unwatchable after that.

A lot of those games were really good. But their player pool must be a good bit smaller now that the 80-90 who sued will almost definitely not play there again, and Mike has been 86'ed from the place (as per Veronica on Jamie K/Marle's podcast).
prairiebreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 12:38 PM   #11207
nutella virus
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Toronto<->Rio
Posts: 2,489
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post
I actually laughed out loud at this. With all that’s going on in this country right now, this is what hurts your faith in America. Priceless!
you beat me to it
nutella virus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 01:42 PM   #11208
'-'_@_
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 177
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
This goes far beyond a gambling dispute. This is in the same exact category as stealing from a casino.

You would be crushed on the spot if you tampered with an electronic device to gain an advantage over the casino. Arrested and jailed.

Why is it any different with players? Power.

This was a terrible ruling. My faith in our country to do what is ‘right’ has been damaged. That’s not a good thing. We all lose.
The point is there is a regulatory authority through which player disputes are resolved. The court is not going to step in because they have enough on their plate. Gambling disputes go through separate channels.

If you have a complaint about cheating at poker you take it up with the venue. If you're not satisfied with their answer there is a gambling control board and instructions for filing a complaint. you've probably also agreed to go through arbitration or other alternative dispute resolution channels by using these establishments.
'-'_@_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 04:31 PM   #11209
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by '-'_@_ View Post
The point is there is a regulatory authority through which player disputes are resolved. The court is not going to step in because they have enough on their plate. Gambling disputes go through separate channels.

If you have a complaint about cheating at poker you take it up with the venue. If you're not satisfied with their answer there is a gambling control board and instructions for filing a complaint. you've probably also agreed to go through arbitration or other alternative dispute resolution channels by using these establishments.
Will the GCB award $30 million?
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 05:49 PM   #11210
Mr Spyutastic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Mr Spyutastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 12,219
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post
I actually laughed out loud at this. With all that’s going on in this country right now, this is what hurts your faith in America. Priceless!
Gives you some insight into how small a world some people live in.
Mr Spyutastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 06:14 PM   #11211
'-'_@_
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 177
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Will the GCB award $30 million?
I didn't say they can't sue, there is just slim to none chance of getting anywhere with it. Postle, representing himself apparently, had no trouble "beating the rap."
'-'_@_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 06:17 PM   #11212
chuckamuck
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 345
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by '-'_@_ View Post
I didn't say they can't sue, there is just slim to none chance of getting anywhere with it. Postle, representing himself apparently, had no trouble "beating the rap."
Would you mind telling me what your username is supposed to look like? I'm baffled
chuckamuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 06:47 PM   #11213
madlex
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,632
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W0X0F View Post
I actually laughed out loud at this. With all that’s going on in this country right now, this is what hurts your faith in America. Priceless!
I'm pretty sure he wasn't serious. I highly doubt that even any of the victims in this case feel that way.
madlex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 07:03 PM   #11214
golfnutt
banned
 
golfnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,969
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by '-'_@_ View Post
The point is there is a regulatory authority through which player disputes are resolved. The court is not going to step in because they have enough on their plate. Gambling disputes go through separate channels.

If you have a complaint about cheating at poker you take it up with the venue. If you're not satisfied with their answer there is a gambling control board and instructions for filing a complaint. you've probably also agreed to go through arbitration or other alternative dispute resolution channels by using these establishments.

Where is this regulatory authority?

This isn’t a gambling dispute like Armenian Mike when he tried to take back his chips after being called.

This is tapping into casino electronics.

As it stands, it seems that he got away with it and there is literally nothing players can do (besides taking extra-judicial measures).

And yes, this makes me lose faith in our system.
golfnutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 10:12 PM   #11215
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
This goes far beyond a gambling dispute. This is in the same exact category as stealing from a casino.

You would be crushed on the spot if you tampered with an electronic device to gain an advantage over the casino. Arrested and jailed.

Why is it any different with players? Power.

This was a terrible ruling. My faith in our country to do what is ‘right’ has been damaged. That’s not a good thing. We all lose.
Nothing in this ruling prevents Postle from being arrested and jailed.

If you think our country does what is right, you are naive. Since 1973, for every nine people that have been executed, one has been exonerated.

There was a kid accused of stealing a backpack (he denied it) who was locked up on Rikers' Island for 3 years because he refused to take a plea. The government refused to release him even after he served more time that the sentence would have been. They offered him deals to get out by pleading guilty and he refused. So they kept him locked up.

That is injustice. This is inconveniece. All poker players are on notice that these tables are subject to hacking.

NO **** SHERLOCK.

The government shouldn't be protecting you from such obvious scams. Sorry man. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 10:51 PM   #11216
ejames209
adept
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 6bet me's no. 1 fan's no. 1 fan
Posts: 1,173
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
If you think our country does what is right, you are naive. Since 1973, for every nine people that have been executed, one has been exonerated.
https://files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/d...1591881221.pdf

I found this that said since 1972 just 1.6% of death row inmates in the US have been exonerated. Of course this doesn't mean only 1.6% of them are innocent, and you distinguished executed inmates rather than just anyone on death row, but 1/9 seems a little high given this figure.
ejames209 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 03:38 PM   #11217
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames209 View Post
https://files.deathpenaltyinfo.org/d...1591881221.pdf

I found this that said since 1972 just 1.6% of death row inmates in the US have been exonerated. Of course this doesn't mean only 1.6% of them are innocent, and you distinguished executed inmates rather than just anyone on death row, but 1/9 seems a little high given this figure.
I thought so too, but the explanation is likely that so few are actually executed the math works out.

169 people have been exonerated and released from death row since 1973

1518 people have been executed in the U.S. since 1973

https://eji.org/issues/death-penalty/
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 03:53 PM   #11218
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfnutt View Post
You would be crushed on the spot if you tampered with an electronic device to gain an advantage over the casino. Arrested and jailed.
How did he tamper with an electronic device? I thought the theory was he was given access by an employee of the casino. If that's what happened, I'm not even sure what crime he committed. I guess it could be fraud, but I've never seen fraud defined as obtaining knowledge of other players cards without permission or disclosure. It's not theft. It's against the rules of poker, but breaking the rules of poker is not a criminal offense.

If he hacked the wireless network to get access (pretty unlikely, that's fairly sophisticated, assuming Stone's used, you know, a password) then it's a crime of course.
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 04:10 PM   #11219
PointlessWords
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 69
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

RFID can’t misidentify cards. During one hand they changed postles cards mid hand. How would they even know the cards were wrong unless he signaled them? It doesn’t make any sense unless they were cheating.
PointlessWords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 04:58 PM   #11220
bpb
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,357
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PointlessWords View Post
RFID can’t misidentify cards. During one hand they changed postles cards mid hand. How would they even know the cards were wrong unless he signaled them? It doesn’t make any sense unless they were cheating.
This post is nonsensical
bpb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 05:07 PM   #11221
jjjou812
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,580
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
I thought so too, but the explanation is likely that so few are actually executed the math works out.

169 people have been exonerated and released from death row since 1973

1518 people have been executed in the U.S. since 1973

https://eji.org/issues/death-penalty/
I just read something from the ACLU that says there are approx 2660 people on death row, and that there were 22 people executed and 34 death penalties imposed last year.
jjjou812 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 06:26 PM   #11222
Gzesh
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UTG
Posts: 5,704
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
I just read something from the ACLU that says there are approx 2660 people on death row, and that there were 22 people executed and 34 death penalties imposed last year.
Unless Mike was one of them, why is that relevant to this thread ?

(.... and this from the guy who posts in the Covid thread about snow outs and baseball opening day in Chicago.)
Gzesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 06:50 PM   #11223
golfnutt
banned
 
golfnutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,969
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
How did he tamper with an electronic device? I thought the theory was he was given access by an employee of the casino. If that's what happened, I'm not even sure what crime he committed. I guess it could be fraud, but I've never seen fraud defined as obtaining knowledge of other players cards without permission or disclosure. It's not theft. It's against the rules of poker, but breaking the rules of poker is not a criminal offense.

If he hacked the wireless network to get access (pretty unlikely, that's fairly sophisticated, assuming Stone's used, you know, a password) then it's a crime of course.

Unfortunately, I don’t think they know exactly what he did and who/if he was working with anybody else. Or what information he received. And how.

Which makes a criminal case impossible and makes it look like a gambling dispute to civil courts.

No regulatory agency seems to care either.

Absolutely pathetic.
golfnutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 08:26 PM   #11224
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Unless Mike was one of them, why is that relevant to this thread ?

(.... and this from the guy who posts in the Covid thread about snow outs and baseball opening day in Chicago.)
This is the covid thread? My bad, I get confused so easily these daze.

We got off on a "implications of Michael Postle on the death penalty's efficacy" track and that was entirely my fault.

I apologize.
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2020, 08:28 PM   #11225
inmyrav
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,649
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpb View Post
This post is nonsensical
made perfect sense to me. Mike has esp.
inmyrav is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive