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Old 06-05-2020, 05:10 PM   #11076
FUrake
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

any word on when this podcast is happening
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:13 PM   #11077
Wilbury Twist
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Was that Kelly case absolutely binding, or was that just the way the judge in this case ruled in order to dismiss the case?
I have at best a surface-level understanding of stare decisis, but my understanding is that precedent is binding in the lower courts, and civil matters are more reliant on leaning on precedent than criminal cases.

But that is based on undergrad law classes from 25 years ago, and learning about our law as a hobby, not a trade. (Call it Reverse Dunning-Kruger: I enjoy studying many subjects, but ultimately assume I don't actually know jack about any one of them.)

i.e. it is DEFINITELY one of those places where Gzesh or another of our J.D.-holding members can clarify.
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:15 PM   #11078
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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What's so bad about being a Jared Jaffee fan?
Okay, in case no one else says anything... I laughed.
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:32 PM   #11079
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yeh, I had law undergraduate law classes too. In my Constitutional Law class, we were supposed to argue for either side and pick out precedents to support it. So maybe the judge could have made a different ruling. That Kelly case did sound like a similar situation. It sounds like a reasonable decision, but also nice for Stones not to have anything come out in depositions and discovery and not to have to settle.
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:48 PM   #11080
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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How many times in a row does someone have to successfully double on 20 and pull an ace before you accept that they know the ace is coming? You don't need thousands, or hundreds, or even tens of hands.

2.5k hands is white noise when you're ascertaining someone's win rate in a fair game. It's not white noise for this kind of blatant cheating. How many hands did Potripper play in that tournament? That was more than enough to say he was 100% superusing, and it was something like 100 hands.
Pretty key point here. Don't need that large a sample when we're talking about low % plays that are right every time.
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:55 PM   #11081
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Completely 100% disagree. Again maybe I'm an idealist and wrong but...

Would you play in a game he was playing in?

If you was a room manager would you allow him to play in your room?
So if walks into the Commerce to play 500NL, 1st the person managing the board needs to recognize who he is. 2nd he has to care. 3rd it's that he didn't steal or do anything to that card room, he allegedly cheated some players in some place that guy doesn't care about.

His court case got thrown out. Technically there's no hard evidence he cheated which is why there are still doubters out there.

So how is it you think people that are far removed from this case are just going to ban this guy from playing?

You are confusing what you think should happen to him with what will happen which is pretty much nothing.

And I'm with you I don't think he should be allowed to play anywhere, but you're letting that feeling cloud common sense on how the world works.
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Old 06-05-2020, 06:28 PM   #11082
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

What I don't understand is how nobody that played with him has not tried to have more of a 1 on 1 discussion with Postle.

If I was cheated, I would definitely look forward to sitting with him again. I do not believe I'm the only one that sees it like this.
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:01 PM   #11083
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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What I don't understand is how nobody that played with him has not tried to have more of a 1 on 1 discussion with Postle.
Do we know for sure that no one did?

My guess is that many of them are his friends who backed him up. And the ones who didn't, or at the very least questioned him, he probably dodged.

Indeed, though – curious to know what conversations must have taken place.
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:07 PM   #11084
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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What I don't understand is how nobody that played with him has not tried to have more of a 1 on 1 discussion with Postle.

If I was cheated, I would definitely look forward to sitting with him again. I do not believe I'm the only one that sees it like this.

Fair point. I assume the gossiping in a small playerpool that regularly plays with each other should be huge. And it is hard to imagine that players who had justified doubts on the integrity of Postle would still be willing to play with him regularly.

Also, it usually gets emotional quickly once someone has the impression of getting scammed. Especially when it's the vast majority of attendants. But maybe the people involved are very professional and reserved in their handling of such cases and are more rational than the average person.
However, it is also possible that many of the accusers actually weren't as wary beforehand as they now claim to have been. There is always the effect free riders joining once someone gets openly accused for a crime. Particularly when there's something to gain - see Marle who finally has realized that as well and now demands 250k in compensation.
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:07 PM   #11085
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by a dewd View Post
What I don't understand is how nobody that played with him has not tried to have more of a 1 on 1 discussion with Postle.

If I was cheated, I would definitely look forward to sitting with him again. I do not believe I'm the only one that sees it like this.
Hard to confront him when he hasn't crawled out of his hole since this whole thing started.
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:10 PM   #11086
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I assume he referred to before Joey covered the issue. That was the catalyst for all of a sudden everybody to come to the fore claiming he/she knew it all the time.
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:23 PM   #11087
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Stlls View Post
Fair point. I assume the gossiping in a small playerpool that regularly plays with each other should be huge. And it is hard to imagine that players who had justified doubts on the integrity of Postle would still be willing to play with him regularly.

Also, it usually gets emotional quickly once someone has the impression of getting scammed. Especially when it's the vast majority of attendants. But maybe the people involved are very professional and reserved in their handling of such cases and are more rational than the average person.
However, it is also possible that many of the accusers actually weren't as wary beforehand as they now claim to have been. There is always the effect free riders joining once someone gets openly accused for a crime. Particularly when there's something to gain - see Marle who finally has realized that as well and now demands 250k in compensation.
There are still players who regularly played in those games that think he is innocent and would have no issue playing with him again.

I believe some made accounts just to come post in this thread.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:00 PM   #11088
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PLIKITYPLAK View Post
If he wants to proclaim his innocence he has to explain all of his sudden head down mannerisms and thick hats when he was in god mode. Other than "everybody was checking their phones" and "hats do be thick sometimes"
Considering he is 100% guilty that would be an utter waste of time and just an insult to the audience unless you just wanted to do it for the entertainment factor.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:47 PM   #11089
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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any word on when this podcast is happening
Maybe I'm in the minority here but why even listen to this scumbag? We all know he cheated, nobody can win at the rate he was winning and the video evidence is overwhelming. Cheating in poker at that level like Russ Hamilton imo in this industry is the lowest of lows.

And we also all know he has ZERO proof that he will show or tell to Joey to exonerate him. It's total bull. Why do we need to hear from this ****ing clown who makes poker look really bad. Hell this crap made espn and national news to a degree. Imagine how many recs or people that might have been interested in learning the game more sees this and decides to steer clear of the game. Why? Because they don't feel like they are capable of not being cheated.

I don't know this guy should be nationally banned by EVERY reputable poker room in the US. Every single one. They should all come together and do this. Tournaments as well. Just keep him away from the game! Let him play in some underground home game and get his ass beat when he tries to cheat there. If he came to foxwoods and was playing I swear I would get every single reg and we would demand he needs to be banned or we will never play there again. And I bet there would be a large group of players willing to do it. This guy Postle is pure scum.

So much criticism of the poker community not doing anything to all the serial scammers like Chino or Hawkins, the community is basically laughed at. But ****ing cheating again and again on a ****ing live stream and the casino employee(s) are in cahoots? That's a whole different kind of scamming scumbag. It's time the community takes a stand against this guy.
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:52 PM   #11090
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Mike Postle should start his own home game, complete with RFID for entertainment purposes only of course.
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:46 PM   #11091
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I actually read it even more disturbingly.

I believe even a case between a casino and a cheated (or cheating) player over the money won/lost would be barred from being resolved in a California court.
This is how I read it as well. A Casino will try and protect itself from being cheated but there is no real reason to expect that a California casino will do anything to protect You from being cheated.
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:09 AM   #11092
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yea I'm interested in seeing how this plays pout going forward for future cheaters in California card rooms. If I'm not mistaken, they've pretty much been given the green light to cheat as much as they want because there's nothing that can be done about it other than possible street justice (not advocating such a thing at all)
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:54 AM   #11093
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

After reading the judgement and the precedent that was presented by Postle's lawyers. I'm fine with what has eventuated. Do I think he cheated? Yes. But the decisions are also with prejudice . Which means the judge can only rule on current law. And the Plantiffs can now appeal. If they appeal to the Supreme Court of CA then their case gets to be heard.

This law is quite clearly outdated so they have a decent-ish chance.
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Old 06-06-2020, 07:03 AM   #11094
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

So when/where is that Postle interview with Joey???
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Old 06-06-2020, 08:04 AM   #11095
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Karmic View Post
there is no real reason to expect that a California casino will do anything to protect You from being cheated.
Isn’t that exactly what people have always been saying?

I remember when I first started playing live poker and asked others for advice, that was one of the first things that came up: casinos only protect themselves from cheating. Not their players.

If poker was a serious sport and hosting live streams would generate revenue (except for marketing), gaming commissions might implement some specific regulations for that, including the topic of liability. But the way it is now, nobody would be interested in that, except for the players. And we already know that nobody really cares about them.
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Old 06-06-2020, 09:17 AM   #11096
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Karmic View Post
This is how I read it as well. A Casino will try and protect itself from being cheated but there is no real reason to expect that a California casino will do anything to protect You from being cheated.
I think that the gaming commission provides a remedy for the cheated player even if the ca court will not. When a player is cheated using house controlled marked cards, or in this case the rfid data is breached, I would generally expect the gaming commission would order restitution/damages/losses awarded to the cheated players as part of the fine they impose. For example, we have seen GC force payment of a bad beat recently.

The plaintiffs decided to skip this avenue (including the GCs investigative abilities) and splash around in court and seek 100x their actual losses, punitive damages and attorney fees.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:05 AM   #11097
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The case was dismissed based on the judge's interpretation of California law and an appeals court precedent. Can the plaintiffs appeal that dismissal and the judge's interpretation? ( I have professional training to know enough law to be dangerous or to discuss cases etc. with lawyers.)

It seems like a gaming commission issue if a poker room manager was running a crooked game and presumably getting a cut of it. Maybe they don't even need to prove that. It is similar to if they had a roulette wheel rigged not to pay off or to pay off mostly to certain players working with a floorman.
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Old 06-06-2020, 10:25 AM   #11098
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jjjou812 View Post
I think that the gaming commission provides a remedy for the cheated player even if the ca court will not. When a player is cheated using house controlled marked cards, or in this case the rfid data is breached, I would generally expect the gaming commission would order restitution/damages/losses awarded to the cheated players as part of the fine they impose. For example, we have seen GC force payment of a bad beat recently.

The plaintiffs decided to skip this avenue (including the GCs investigative abilities) and splash around in court and seek 100x their actual losses, punitive damages and attorney fees.
In California ? (I do not practice in California, the question is genuine.)
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:05 AM   #11099
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The reality that EVERYONE ITT is missing: the players he cheated are dupes.
It takes two to tango.
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Old 06-06-2020, 11:12 AM   #11100
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Why the aversion to taking P's money in a legit cash game?

Scummier players are favorites for POTY annually.
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