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Old 10-02-2019, 01:03 PM   #1076
Alex Wice
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Also, the reason he loves seat 1 is because it is easy to relay the cards in order.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:03 PM   #1077
BamaWillBG
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerDoom View Post
It seems like from june 2019 onwards Mike has stopped playing completely ridiculous. That is just my opinion from watching like a dozen of these streams.

Obviously waiting for someone to pop up on here and be like LOOK AT THIS DOOZY.


🚩🚩🚩RED FLAG ALERT 🚩🚩🚩

Postle quits playing on stream when Justin is in Vegas during the WSOP, but as soon as Justin returns, Postle is back in the game winning more than ever.

Justin said Stones internal investigation showed no cheating and everything is perfectly normal.

Justin, you are busted. But there are others involved. Just wait.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:04 PM   #1078
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Nope. That is a cheating/trick tool, but it's irrelevant here.
Nope. Similar devices have been used to cheat in chess. Not here.

Nope.

Nope.

That would be far too complicated when there is a blindingly obvious method of finding out the hole cards instead.

Again, possible, but unnecessary.

Video feed.

The reason why he takes a few seconds to decipher who has which hand is because he's literally watching the (secret) live stream on his phone, and basically has to memorize 7-8 players' hands quickly and decide on a post-flop plan. (That requires some skill, but I'm sure you can get quite good at it with practice).
It's my understanding that the hole-card graphics for the stream are displayed automatically on the PC used for broadcasting by software connected to the room's RFID system. The equities are also calculated by the software and updated on-the-fly.
The stream might be broadcast on Twitch half an hour later, but all the video footage and graphical overlays go into the broadcaster/director's computer, presumably in a room near the commentators, and is then uploaded to Twitch, right there at almost the same time as hands are being played. (When live streaming, you can set Twitch to only make it generally available later).

From the streaming/broadcast computer, it could also be beamed via Teamviewer (or similar) directly to Postle's phone. He could have set up a remote viewing app on the PC at some point in the past, or he has a co-conspirator in front of the computer monitor who films the screen with his phone for a live video-call direct to Postle's lap. Both these methods introduce a little bit of latency, but having the actual broadcast footage (with holecards displayed) sent to your phone is so much simpler than any other method.

If this is hard to get your head around, just imagine you're streaming online poker on twitch with a 10 minute delay, but there is someone behind you pointing his phone at your monitor while he's on skype with a friend on the other side of the world. That friend would know your holecards a few milliseconds after you do, and almost 10 minutes before Twitch viewers, without a single word being uttered. (This same principle is used by "superusers" for in-play betting on individual points in worldwide tennis matches.)

The scariest thing about this cheating method is that it could be (and probably has been) used by anyone with access to the broadcasting/uploading computer (or the technician monitoring it) at any event that is streamed with RFID holecards up, with or without a delay on the broadcast. It doesn't even matter if the commentators do voiceovers later. The actual live footage with holecards up can be seen by a computer technician (or a poker room manager), and/or sent to a "friend" immediately.

Cliffs: I think he's literally watching the stream (with holecards up) more or less live as it happens, half an hour before it's available to everyone else.
This is the exact conclusion I came up with
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:07 PM   #1079
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by js84 View Post
Normally I don't enter myself into these sort of things, and I don't have any sort of social media to post this on, but this one bothered me. I have several friends that have played (and lost) on Stones in Postle games. I hadn't watched many Stones live streams before this - the few I watched were when a friend was playing. I had heard the jokes/rumors about Postle, but I always just brushed them off as he was just some whale/maniac/luck box. I had no idea how often he won big until this.

The chart below is work from me (2019) and a friend (who did the 2018 totals at the bottom). The bottom line?

+$253,300 in 277 hours of play, winning in 62/69 sessions. This was over roughly a year of streams (not sure exactly where they started in 2018).

https://ibb.co/kmVwv8t
Sorry, it wouldn't load the picture in the forum properly.

This does not include any mixed games, sit-n-gos, tournaments, etc. There is a possibility I missed a stream or two - if I did it was certainly not intentional.

How did we do this? I won't speak for my friend, but I think we used a similar strategy. Essentially I would open a stream, see if Postle was playing, and look for his earliest listed/visible chip stack. That is his buy-in column. From there, I would fast forward a few minutes at a time.

Any time Postle was in a hand, or his chip stack deviated more than a few hundred dollars, I would look to see why. Sometimes he would win pots. Sometimes he would lose. Sometimes he would add-on - these add-ons were the hardest part, as the camera didn't always show when the chip runner delivering the chips. The match-the-stack element of the game allowed the game to become big quickly. Looking for swings in chip stacks - either Postle's or another players - was reason to look deeper.

In some cases (like the 1/12/2019 game, the one Joey Ingram was livestreaming and commenting on last night) Postle has such a huge chip lead, it was easy to just skip ahead in the stream and watch his chip stack grow. He couldn't add-on (no need to, and he was the stack), and no one was attempting to match him. His chip stack would just keep climbing.

Some streams (like the one above) didn't take long for the reasons I mentioned above - maybe 15 minutes. Others took longer since he was up and down in chips, he added on, or his chip stack jumped but no obvious pot won was found. This was simply a task of looking for deviations in chip stacks and seeing if it was from winning/losing or from something else. After getting the hang of it a few streams in, the process was usually very quick.

Discrepancies: Is this 100% accurate? No, I know this isn't 100% correct. Am I confident it's 95% accurate? Yes. Many streams there was little doubt what was going on. He would buy-in for an amount, win some pots with no major loses, and his final streamed chip stack was recorded. Not much room for error in at least half of these streams, probably more like 2/3 of all streams.

Hours played: This is a rough guess, but I imagine it is still fairly accurate. Basically if the YouTube stream was 4:XX, I listed it as a 4 hour session. Stones has anywhere from 0-20 minute intro, as well as a several minute marbles outro. So a 4:05 stream is probably something like 3:30-3:45, while a 4:55 stream is more like 4:25-4:40. I figure this averaged out in the long run. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, add a half hour for each session, but I imagine 277 hours played is pretty close to reality.

Blind Structure: This may be off. I generally used whatever the stream listed. I don't think this is super important because the 1/2/3 (listed as 1/3) usually played more like a 5/5, plus the match-the-stack element of the game made most of them play big. Once I entered this I generally ignored it, so I imagine it's not 100%.

There are several sessions in which strange things happened with the chip stacks (some highlighted in yellow, I started doing this closer to the end of this project). Basically, something odd happened and I never knew 100% what was going on. This could be inconsistent chip counts on screen, money being added-on but not caught on stream, or something like that. A few cases, he would stack a player whose chip stack was listed at $1,000, but the stack on the table was clearly more by several hundred. In these cases, if I was unsure, I always made these out to be chip add-ons. I ALWAYS ERRED ON THE HIGH SIDE, the side that looks better for Postle. If anything, I think his total buy-ins are less than what I have listed. But if you want to give him more benefit of the doubt, add $10-15k to his buy-ins (as well as 30 hours to his play time).

Take this information however you want to. I'm just adding information for those out there looking, and I know people have asked/guessed to his winnings over the past year or so. I'll try to read and answer questions people have.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:08 PM   #1080
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Wice View Post
Also, the reason he loves seat 1 is because it is easy to relay the cards in order.
Alex you are too smart for us here 😂
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:10 PM   #1081
Xenoblade
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
I just assumed villain had flipped over 64 before they dealt the turn and river, he didn't?
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:10 PM   #1082
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by js84 View Post
Normally I don't enter myself into these sort of things, and I don't have any sort of social media to post this on, but this one bothered me. I have several friends that have played (and lost) on Stones in Postle games. I hadn't watched many Stones live streams before this - the few I watched were when a friend was playing. I had heard the jokes/rumors about Postle, but I always just brushed them off as he was just some whale/maniac/luck box. I had no idea how often he won big until this.

The chart below is work from me (2019) and a friend (who did the 2018 totals at the bottom). The bottom line?

+$253,300 in 277 hours of play, winning in 62/69 sessions. This was over roughly a year of streams (not sure exactly where they started in 2018).

https://ibb.co/kmVwv8t
Sorry, it wouldn't load the picture in the forum properly.

This does not include any mixed games, sit-n-gos, tournaments, etc. There is a possibility I missed a stream or two - if I did it was certainly not intentional.

How did we do this? I won't speak for my friend, but I think we used a similar strategy. Essentially I would open a stream, see if Postle was playing, and look for his earliest listed/visible chip stack. That is his buy-in column. From there, I would fast forward a few minutes at a time.

Any time Postle was in a hand, or his chip stack deviated more than a few hundred dollars, I would look to see why. Sometimes he would win pots. Sometimes he would lose. Sometimes he would add-on - these add-ons were the hardest part, as the camera didn't always show when the chip runner delivering the chips. The match-the-stack element of the game allowed the game to become big quickly. Looking for swings in chip stacks - either Postle's or another players - was reason to look deeper.

In some cases (like the 1/12/2019 game, the one Joey Ingram was livestreaming and commenting on last night) Postle has such a huge chip lead, it was easy to just skip ahead in the stream and watch his chip stack grow. He couldn't add-on (no need to, and he was the stack), and no one was attempting to match him. His chip stack would just keep climbing.

Some streams (like the one above) didn't take long for the reasons I mentioned above - maybe 15 minutes. Others took longer since he was up and down in chips, he added on, or his chip stack jumped but no obvious pot won was found. This was simply a task of looking for deviations in chip stacks and seeing if it was from winning/losing or from something else. After getting the hang of it a few streams in, the process was usually very quick.

Discrepancies: Is this 100% accurate? No, I know this isn't 100% correct. Am I confident it's 95% accurate? Yes. Many streams there was little doubt what was going on. He would buy-in for an amount, win some pots with no major loses, and his final streamed chip stack was recorded. Not much room for error in at least half of these streams, probably more like 2/3 of all streams.

Hours played: This is a rough guess, but I imagine it is still fairly accurate. Basically if the YouTube stream was 4:XX, I listed it as a 4 hour session. Stones has anywhere from 0-20 minute intro, as well as a several minute marbles outro. So a 4:05 stream is probably something like 3:30-3:45, while a 4:55 stream is more like 4:25-4:40. I figure this averaged out in the long run. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, add a half hour for each session, but I imagine 277 hours played is pretty close to reality.

Blind Structure: This may be off. I generally used whatever the stream listed. I don't think this is super important because the 1/2/3 (listed as 1/3) usually played more like a 5/5, plus the match-the-stack element of the game made most of them play big. Once I entered this I generally ignored it, so I imagine it's not 100%.

There are several sessions in which strange things happened with the chip stacks (some highlighted in yellow, I started doing this closer to the end of this project). Basically, something odd happened and I never knew 100% what was going on. This could be inconsistent chip counts on screen, money being added-on but not caught on stream, or something like that. A few cases, he would stack a player whose chip stack was listed at $1,000, but the stack on the table was clearly more by several hundred. In these cases, if I was unsure, I always made these out to be chip add-ons. I ALWAYS ERRED ON THE HIGH SIDE, the side that looks better for Postle. If anything, I think his total buy-ins are less than what I have listed. But if you want to give him more benefit of the doubt, add $10-15k to his buy-ins (as well as 30 hours to his play time).

Take this information however you want to. I'm just adding information for those out there looking, and I know people have asked/guessed to his winnings over the past year or so. I'll try to read and answer questions people have.
Fantastic job, thanks for the work you did
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:11 PM   #1083
gar2garvin
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Great spreadsheet js84 https://ibb.co/kmVwv8t



Here is a tweet from Justin showing he was in Las Vegas at least June 19-26 but obviously most likely longer. Conveniently a time period in which Postle doesn't play. If we assume Justin was in Vegas the week before this it also covers two of Postle's losing sessions including the only one he lost a significant amount.



Notice the timestamp and location stamp of this tweet. Postle plays two days after Justin supposedly returns and wins $4200
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:12 PM   #1084
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
I just assumed villain had flipped over 64 before they dealt the turn and river, he didn't?
No, on stream mike in twitter dms seems to tell joey that he just said that cause the 7 scared him / he made the overall play with 95 cause he wanted to get back at bryan + someone asked him to try winning a hand with 95 before session or something along those lines
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:12 PM   #1085
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
I just assumed villain had flipped over 64 before they dealt the turn and river, he didn't?
He flips them over after the hand

Mike does his act and then acts surprised when he wins and flips his hand over.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:13 PM   #1086
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It would be great if a third party investigation took place and the casino security cameras were reviewed before being erased/taped over. I wonder if any of the first hand accusers have come forward and filed a complaint. Stones and the floorman obviously can't be trusted to investigate as there is a clear conflict of interest. If nothing is done, we can expect a tweet from floorman and co. in a few days clearing everyone of any wrong doing.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:15 PM   #1087
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)



June 14 2019, Nevada USA. The day before Postle's biggest loss. I think it's safe to assume Justin was in Vegas on the 15th.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:15 PM   #1088
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
THANK YOU VERY MUCH


Any questions I'm happy to answer.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:17 PM   #1089
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by dfb89 View Post
Terrible take.. it took Joey less than 5 hours because he already knew going in about allegations.. it’s easier to see something when already know there’s something to look for. I don’t think many people blame the commentators at all, especially considering the women is the one who came foreword with the accusation..
It's good that she came forward, but not sure she deserves the accolades she is getting from a lot of people. Her twitter timeline is essentially a big pat on the back for after 100s of hours of watching him play, and I also believe no longer working for the casino, then coming forward with allegations. This is of course after having a custom made "god mode" graphic for the cheater. I understand its difficult for a lot of people to think the worst about someone, but I really believe the commentators deserve some blame for not raising more questions sooner. I certainly would feel that way if I was one of the ones cheated out of money.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:17 PM   #1090
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Another proof that hand histories are useless smh, let's get rid of 'em online and live. Just false accusations by delusional players and nothing the guys running the game didn't already know about.

EDIT: Someone invested in the investigation has probably downloaded all the vids, right? I'd reckon they might get deleted very soon.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:19 PM   #1091
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think the most interesting part of this whole saga is the fact that this guy was so blatant about it. It makes me wonder if there are other live stream cheaters out there getting away with it because they aren't a complete dumbass.

I can only assume one or both of the following:

1) This guy knows he was likely to eventually be caught, didn't care and was just trying to get as much money as possible while he could. I find this unlikely because again, is it really hard to check jam with a boat every now and then or pay off now and then? really??

2) This guy is a huge fish with a complete lack of self awareness regarding his skill level. He probably actually thought he could play a 60% vpip and bet 3bet 4th pair every time because that's what all those high stakes lags do! He is actually so terrible at poker he actually had no clue how obvious this would look to anyone with a modicum of skill
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:20 PM   #1092
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

He certainly looks like a cheater.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:21 PM   #1093
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
He flips them over after the hand

Mike does his act and then acts surprised when he wins and flips his hand over.
hahahah this is ridiculous, what a blunder by Mike

this is probably the biggest proof of all, he is basically saying out loud that he knew what his opponent was holding
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:22 PM   #1094
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

He wins while acting all loosey goosey at the table. I guess Negreanu was wrong.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:23 PM   #1095
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I have seen a lot of the video evidence. and I may be the only one who thinks this, but I am not convinced that he is cheating.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:25 PM   #1096
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

in before Postle last seen in Costa Rica or some other non-extradition treaty nation.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:26 PM   #1097
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Pokerlogist View Post
I have seen a lot of the video evidence. and I may be the only one who thinks this, but I am not convinced that he is cheating.

^^ this says more about you than it says about the evidence.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:27 PM   #1098
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerlogist View Post
I have seen a lot of the video evidence. and I may be the only one who thinks this, but I am not convinced that he is cheating.
Please elaborate why.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:27 PM   #1099
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://twitter.com/abarber1/status/1179433107352625158

Quote:
I’ve spoken to numerous players in the community and the consensus is that we should be embarrassed for not speaking up sooner.

Rumors have been swirling for months, but no one had a complete picture because no one with the ability and experience to judge what was happening was watching the streams with regularity.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:28 PM   #1100
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by exoendo View Post
I think the most interesting part of this whole saga is the fact that this guy was so blatant about it. It makes me wonder if there are other live stream cheaters out there getting away with it because they aren't a complete dumbass.

I can only assume one or both of the following:

1) This guy knows he was likely to eventually be caught, didn't care and was just trying to get as much money as possible while he could. I find this unlikely because again, is it really hard to check jam with a boat every now and then or pay off now and then? really??

2) This guy is a huge fish with a complete lack of self awareness regarding his skill level. He probably actually thought he could play a 60% vpip and bet 3bet 4th pair every time because that's what all those high stakes lags do! He is actually so terrible at poker he actually had no clue how obvious this would look to anyone with a modicum of skill
I think number 2 is quite likely. I doubt he understands (and it seems like in this thread hes not the only one), how mathematically impossible it is for him to win in this style, with this winrate, by taking these lines.
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