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Old 10-02-2019, 12:19 PM   #1051
BrianBigNFun
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

didnt see this posted (forgive if I am wrong)-

Kasey Mills changed her statement from a few days ago and now admits she's been wary of cheating for some time now and said something as well

https://twitter.com/pokermommaa/stat...75306970025984
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:19 PM   #1052
ArtyMcFly
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by belg_owner View Post
Look up Poker Analyzer
Nope. That is a cheating/trick tool, but it's irrelevant here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
I think the guy just gets a vibration of when to bet either on an iwatch attatched to his ankle or his phone.
Nope. Similar devices have been used to cheat in chess. Not here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Any chance he has some super futuristic contact lenses that read the cards with programmed hacking software.
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobel1 View Post
Or something like this guy a few years ago who used special ink to mark the cards and he has to look down at his phone, so he gets a special angle to look a the cards with his contact lenses.
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PenelopeCruz View Post
If it's some kind of app that's auto sending it could be a long string of text that takes a while to decipher. (It has to tell him seat number, card value and suit for 9 players). It also probably doesn't literally say "seat 1, Kc9d", it may be harder to read than that and may even be in code in case someone got ahold of his phone.
That would be far too complicated when there is a blindingly obvious method of finding out the hole cards instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerbeastsu View Post
BUT is it possible that someone on the inside is marking the deck?
Again, possible, but unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidcolin View Post
naive question. When a broadcast like this is delayed, are the announcers seeing it in real-time and the action and their commentary are delayed together, or is the action delayed and the announcers are seeing it and calling it in real-time with the audience?
If it's the former, I think it might not be as fancy as anything like RFID readers. He could just have an audio feed.
Video feed.

The reason why he takes a few seconds to decipher who has which hand is because he's literally watching the (secret) live stream on his phone, and basically has to memorize 7-8 players' hands quickly and decide on a post-flop plan. (That requires some skill, but I'm sure you can get quite good at it with practice).
It's my understanding that the hole-card graphics for the stream are displayed automatically on the PC used for broadcasting by software connected to the room's RFID system. The equities are also calculated by the software and updated on-the-fly.
The stream might be broadcast on Twitch half an hour later, but all the video footage and graphical overlays go into the broadcaster/director's computer, presumably in a room near the commentators, and is then uploaded to Twitch, right there at almost the same time as hands are being played. (When live streaming, you can set Twitch to only make it generally available later).

From the streaming/broadcast computer, it could also be beamed via Teamviewer (or similar) directly to Postle's phone. He could have set up a remote viewing app on the PC at some point in the past, or he has a co-conspirator in front of the computer monitor who films the screen with his phone for a live video-call direct to Postle's lap. Both these methods introduce a little bit of latency, but having the actual broadcast footage (with holecards displayed) sent to your phone is so much simpler than any other method.

If this is hard to get your head around, just imagine you're streaming online poker on twitch with a 10 minute delay, but there is someone behind you pointing his phone at your monitor while he's on skype with a friend on the other side of the world. That friend would know your holecards a few milliseconds after you do, and almost 10 minutes before Twitch viewers, without a single word being uttered. (This same principle is used by "superusers" for in-play betting on individual points in worldwide tennis matches.)

The scariest thing about this cheating method is that it could be (and probably has been) used by anyone with access to the broadcasting/uploading computer (or the technician monitoring it) at any event that is streamed with RFID holecards up, with or without a delay on the broadcast. It doesn't even matter if the commentators do voiceovers later. The actual live footage with holecards up can be seen by a computer technician (or a poker room manager), and/or sent to a "friend" immediately.

Cliffs: I think he's literally watching the stream (with holecards up) more or less live as it happens, half an hour before it's available to everyone else.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:27 PM   #1053
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

can anyone who's been on these streams or plays in the surrounding games verify the immediate rack ups after the streams? No winning player would immediately rack up every time in these games...especially when they have the stacks that Apostle so frequently has by the end of these streams. What sort of emergency would it take for a live low-stakes grinder to leave a game he's winning 500$+/hr from!?
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:27 PM   #1054
wiiziwiig
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hAmThEkIlLeR View Post
1. A former stones employee/commentator on Stones livestream game alleged that Postle was cheating. This employee says that she was contacted by other players who expressed this concern.

2.Joey goes into full OCD investigative mode and starts sweating Stones livestream play. In the footage, Mike takes some very nonstandard lines which seem to yeild him great profits. After viewing the first five hours of footage of Mike hands, he only loses twice..one time when his opponent makes a ridiculous hero call, one time when he is bluffed with 72.
To add to this timeline, Veronica actually came to Joey before releasing the tweets to ask if he would cover it honestly bc she feared what did happen, would happen, which was getting hate and auto dismissed for whistleblowing. Joey spent some 20+ hours before his first stream analyzing Mikes play on Stones Live. Joey was accused of cherry picking on his stream, which he wasn't really imo, he was just fast forwarding and occasionally looking at hands that viewers brought up from time to time. so he did a second stream looking at all the hands and then did a back to back third stream. he has vowed to cover most if not all of Mike Postles streams bc hes a ****ing boss who doesnt **** around.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:31 PM   #1055
JedMosely
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naismith View Post
Not sure if this is posted, but two hands from Joey's stream:

First hand, pulls the hat down over eyes, looks down, looks up, reaches down to grab something, makes the call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUMt...outu.be&t=5715

Second hand, does the exact same thing except this time, when he reaches down, he comes back up with the phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUMt...outu.be&t=7920
Great post pretty much solves it. Surprise surprise two perfect decisions. What a dickhead
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:32 PM   #1056
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Nope. That is a cheating/trick tool, but it's irrelevant here.
Nope. Similar devices have been used to cheat in chess. Not here.

Nope.

Nope.

That would be far too complicated when there is a blindingly obvious method of finding out the hole cards instead.

Again, possible, but unnecessary.

Video feed.

The reason why he takes a few seconds to decipher who has which hand is because he's literally watching the (secret) live stream on his phone, and basically has to memorize 7-8 players' hands quickly and decide on a post-flop plan. (That requires some skill, but I'm sure you can get quite good at it with practice).
It's my understanding that the hole-card graphics for the stream are displayed automatically on the PC used for broadcasting by software connected to the room's RFID system. The equities are also calculated by the software and updated on-the-fly.
The stream might be broadcast on Twitch half an hour later, but all the video footage and graphical overlays go into the broadcaster/director's computer, presumably in a room near the commentators, and is then uploaded to Twitch, right there at almost the same time as hands are being played. (When live streaming, you can set Twitch to only make it generally available later).

From the streaming/broadcast computer, it could also be beamed via Teamviewer (or similar) directly to Postle's phone. He could have set up a remote viewing app on the PC at some point in the past, or he has a co-conspirator in front of the computer monitor who films the screen with his phone for a live video-call direct to Postle's lap. Both these methods introduce a little bit of latency, but having the actual broadcast footage (with holecards displayed) sent to your phone is so much simpler than any other method.

If this is hard to get your head around, just imagine you're streaming online poker on twitch with a 10 minute delay, but there is someone behind you pointing his phone at your monitor while he's on skype with a friend on the other side of the world. That friend would know your holecards a few milliseconds after you do, and almost 10 minutes before Twitch viewers, without a single word being uttered. (This same principle is used by "superusers" for in-play betting on individual points in worldwide tennis matches.)

The scariest thing about this cheating method is that it could be (and probably has been) used by anyone with access to the broadcasting/uploading computer (or the technician monitoring it) at any event that is streamed with RFID holecards up, with or without a delay on the broadcast. It doesn't even matter if the commentators do voiceovers later. The actual live footage with holecards up can be seen by a computer technician (or a poker room manager), and/or sent to a "friend" immediately.

Cliffs: I think he's literally watching the stream (with holecards up) more or less live as it happens, half an hour before it's available to everyone else.
This would make a lot fo sense. Especially if it's a direct feed, it would be a great cover if someone actually got a glimpse of his phone. It would just look like he's watching the normal stream and likely nobody would get longer than a glimpse to decipher that it's displaying in real time.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:32 PM   #1057
zedsdead
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Without Joey this thing probably wouldn’t have got off the ground.
People would say inconclusive evidence.
Thank you Joey.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:34 PM   #1058
Loctus
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
post
We know that Postle used to work with setting up customized phone apps, exactly relating to sending live updates of information to the app. He also helped set up the damn livestream for the casino, and knows the people/person in charge of running the whole thing.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:34 PM   #1059
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedsdead View Post
Without Joey this thing probably wouldn’t have got off the ground.
People would say inconclusive evidence.
Thank you Joey.
Obv helped a monumental amount, but props to Veronica for making the initial tweet. Seems like a lot of other people were suspicious and didn't speak up
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:39 PM   #1060
datwizz
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post

Video feed.

The reason why he takes a few seconds to decipher who has which hand is because he's literally watching the (secret) live stream on his phone, and basically has to memorize 7-8 players' hands quickly and decide on a post-flop plan. (That requires some skill, but I'm sure you can get quite good at it with practice).
It's my understanding that the hole-card graphics for the stream are displayed automatically on the PC used for broadcasting by software connected to the room's RFID system. The equities are also calculated by the software and updated on-the-fly.
The stream might be broadcast on Twitch half an hour later, but all the video footage and graphical overlays go into the broadcaster/director's computer, presumably in a room near the commentators, and is then uploaded to Twitch, right there at almost the same time as hands are being played. (When live streaming, you can set Twitch to only make it generally available later).

From the streaming/broadcast computer, it could also be beamed via Teamviewer (or similar) directly to Postle's phone. He could have set up a remote viewing app on the PC at some point in the past, or he has a co-conspirator in front of the computer monitor who films the screen with his phone for a live video-call direct to Postle's lap. Both these methods introduce a little bit of latency, but having the actual broadcast footage (with holecards displayed) sent to your phone is so much simpler than any other method.

If this is hard to get your head around, just imagine you're streaming online poker on twitch with a 10 minute delay, but there is someone behind you pointing his phone at your monitor while he's on skype with a friend on the other side of the world. That friend would know your holecards a few milliseconds after you do, and almost 10 minutes before Twitch viewers, without a single word being uttered. (This same principle is used by "superusers" for in-play betting on individual points in worldwide tennis matches.)

The scariest thing about this cheating method is that it could be (and probably has been) used by anyone with access to the broadcasting/uploading computer (or the technician monitoring it) at any event that is streamed with RFID holecards up, with or without a delay on the broadcast. It doesn't even matter if the commentators do voiceovers later. The actual live footage with holecards up can be seen by a computer technician (or a poker room manager), and/or sent to a "friend" immediately.

Cliffs: I think he's literally watching the stream (with holecards up) more or less live as it happens, half an hour before it's available to everyone else.
This makes a lot of sense. Also would explain why if they did have an outside audit it would come back clean (simply remove the hidden camera from the room lol). Would also mean more than one person involved and that other person would have to be an employee with access.

Might never be able to 100% prove it tho.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:41 PM   #1061
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
I had heard that Mike was a consultant/contractor in some capacity w/ the people/company who helped set up the live stream at Stones. I have not found out any more specific information about this yet. I've also been told more about the security of the hole card information in the past vs the way it is set up now at Stones. This seems worth mentioning seeing that the Linkedin page is deleted. This is usually something to watch out for.

I saw his Linkedin page said he created a poker series/tour called The Dream Poker Show which I imagine then would give him access to behind the scenes equipment and knowledge of how production works and how the game works in general.

He gives an interview back in 2017 about it -



For whatever reason, he has now deleted the Linkedin page - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-postle-01252a93






Not sure why he would do that. It looks like only one of these shows took place.
Maybe he can get hired for security for livestreams after this. Like card counters and casino cheats sometimes get hired by casinos.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:41 PM   #1062
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JedMosely View Post
Obv helped a monumental amount, but props to Veronica for making the initial tweet. Seems like a lot of other people were suspicious and didn't speak up
Yes big ups to Veronica as well.

Patiently waiting for the DP vid to drop..
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:42 PM   #1063
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by datwizz View Post
This makes a lot of sense. Also would explain why if they did have an outside audit it would come back clean (simply remove the hidden camera from the room lol). Would also mean more than one person involved and that other person would have to be an employee with access.

Might never be able to 100% prove it tho.
What makes you sure an outside audit took place?
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:44 PM   #1064
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Old 10-02-2019, 12:44 PM   #1065
datwizz
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
What makes you sure an outside audit took place?
Not sure at all, would probably lean that it didn’t happen.

Just saying if it came back clean then this could be a good explanation as to why.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:44 PM   #1066
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Normally I don't enter myself into these sort of things, and I don't have any sort of social media to post this on, but this one bothered me. I have several friends that have played (and lost) on Stones in Postle games. I hadn't watched many Stones live streams before this - the few I watched were when a friend was playing. I had heard the jokes/rumors about Postle, but I always just brushed them off as he was just some whale/maniac/luck box. I had no idea how often he won big until this.

The chart below is work from me (2019) and a friend (who did the 2018 totals at the bottom). The bottom line?

+$253,300 in 277 hours of play, winning in 62/69 sessions. This was over roughly a year of streams (not sure exactly where they started in 2018).

https://ibb.co/kmVwv8t
Sorry, it wouldn't load the picture in the forum properly.

This does not include any mixed games, sit-n-gos, tournaments, etc. There is a possibility I missed a stream or two - if I did it was certainly not intentional.

How did we do this? I won't speak for my friend, but I think we used a similar strategy. Essentially I would open a stream, see if Postle was playing, and look for his earliest listed/visible chip stack. That is his buy-in column. From there, I would fast forward a few minutes at a time.

Any time Postle was in a hand, or his chip stack deviated more than a few hundred dollars, I would look to see why. Sometimes he would win pots. Sometimes he would lose. Sometimes he would add-on - these add-ons were the hardest part, as the camera didn't always show when the chip runner delivering the chips. The match-the-stack element of the game allowed the game to become big quickly. Looking for swings in chip stacks - either Postle's or another players - was reason to look deeper.

In some cases (like the 1/12/2019 game, the one Joey Ingram was livestreaming and commenting on last night) Postle has such a huge chip lead, it was easy to just skip ahead in the stream and watch his chip stack grow. He couldn't add-on (no need to, and he was the stack), and no one was attempting to match him. His chip stack would just keep climbing.

Some streams (like the one above) didn't take long for the reasons I mentioned above - maybe 15 minutes. Others took longer since he was up and down in chips, he added on, or his chip stack jumped but no obvious pot won was found. This was simply a task of looking for deviations in chip stacks and seeing if it was from winning/losing or from something else. After getting the hang of it a few streams in, the process was usually very quick.

Discrepancies: Is this 100% accurate? No, I know this isn't 100% correct. Am I confident it's 95% accurate? Yes. Many streams there was little doubt what was going on. He would buy-in for an amount, win some pots with no major loses, and his final streamed chip stack was recorded. Not much room for error in at least half of these streams, probably more like 2/3 of all streams.

Hours played: This is a rough guess, but I imagine it is still fairly accurate. Basically if the YouTube stream was 4:XX, I listed it as a 4 hour session. Stones has anywhere from 0-20 minute intro, as well as a several minute marbles outro. So a 4:05 stream is probably something like 3:30-3:45, while a 4:55 stream is more like 4:25-4:40. I figure this averaged out in the long run. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, add a half hour for each session, but I imagine 277 hours played is pretty close to reality.

Blind Structure: This may be off. I generally used whatever the stream listed. I don't think this is super important because the 1/2/3 (listed as 1/3) usually played more like a 5/5, plus the match-the-stack element of the game made most of them play big. Once I entered this I generally ignored it, so I imagine it's not 100%.

There are several sessions in which strange things happened with the chip stacks (some highlighted in yellow, I started doing this closer to the end of this project). Basically, something odd happened and I never knew 100% what was going on. This could be inconsistent chip counts on screen, money being added-on but not caught on stream, or something like that. A few cases, he would stack a player whose chip stack was listed at $1,000, but the stack on the table was clearly more by several hundred. In these cases, if I was unsure, I always made these out to be chip add-ons. I ALWAYS ERRED ON THE HIGH SIDE, the side that looks better for Postle. If anything, I think his total buy-ins are less than what I have listed. But if you want to give him more benefit of the doubt, add $10-15k to his buy-ins (as well as 30 hours to his play time).

Take this information however you want to. I'm just adding information for those out there looking, and I know people have asked/guessed to his winnings over the past year or so. I'll try to read and answer questions people have.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:45 PM   #1067
BrianBigNFun
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
What makes you sure an outside audit took place?
while it doesnt mean an outside audit was actually done, Kasey Mills tweeted that she was told there was one

Quote:
When I was told an outside auditing team was coming in I believed it was being investigated thoroughly and although suspicious I felt they and not I would be better equipped to know without doubt.
https://twitter.com/pokermommaa/stat...75306970025984
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:46 PM   #1068
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://twitter.com/haralabob/status...84366066884608

Reupping this.

Members of the poker community: call the California Gaming Commission. Call the FBI. Call local police forces/DA offices. What Mike Postle did is illegal, what his co-conspirator(s) did is illegal, and if they played a part in aiding Mike or covering this up, the operators of Stones Live and/or Stones Gambling Hall should face the full weight of law enforcement.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:48 PM   #1069
locopollo
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I would like to nominee Michael Postle to be inducted into Cheaters Hall of Fame.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:49 PM   #1070
wiiziwiig
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

i think the simplest way for Mike to be cheating is that he has a buddy who has the holecard info, mb that person has access to the undelayed live stream, mb he doesnt, and is somehow telling Mike exactly what to do, most likey through txt message since hes always looking at his crotch.

Mb there are 3 ppl involved,
1. Mike the guy at the table
2. a buddy, in charge of holecards and telling what actions to take
3. floorman, the guy getting Mike into the games and clearance for the buddy to be where he needs to be for to get holecard data.

Why is Mike the perfect candidate to be at the table? hes an action player whos built up an image that could pass for crazy exploitative plays which is a great cover for superuser abilities. I could imagine this floorman and Mike have been friends for years and cooked up this plan together.

This is all speculation at this point, but its how id imagine it went down.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:50 PM   #1071
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That 54o vs Ak vs AK is so blatant! If you guys are on the fence about him cheating just find that hand.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:52 PM   #1072
KaMiKazE
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by js84 View Post

The chart below is work from me (2019) and a friend (who did the 2018 totals at the bottom). The bottom line?

+$253,300 in 277 hours of play, winning in 62/69 sessions. This was over roughly a year of streams (not sure exactly where they started in 2018).

Great work! A casual $914/hr win rate over 277 hours. Absolutely nothing to see here folks.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:57 PM   #1073
Angle shooter
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Talking through this with some tech savvy friends and based on an ideal of how hard it would be to get constant texts or signals.

What if he is actually watching the live stream with the live rfid. So if he set up the equipment, and has RFID access and stones allows players to watch the stream(Delayed) What if old Mikey actually set it up to feed to his phone live. Meaning he is watching his bozo opponents on his phone with the Live stream, not the delayed stream. This would explain if someone briefly noticed him sweating the stream they actually saw him watching the stream which from the perspective of an opponent he is watching it like anyone else. Reality is its f**king real time...
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:59 PM   #1074
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedsdead View Post
Without Joey this thing probably wouldn’t have got off the ground.
People would say inconclusive evidence.
Thank you Joey.
Joey is simply amazing

Quote:
Originally Posted by JedMosely View Post
Obv helped a monumental amount, but props to Veronica for making the initial tweet. Seems like a lot of other people were suspicious and didn't speak up
I think it's harsh to start criticising people for allegedly not speaking up. No one would have gone through as many hands as Joey has. As Kasey said, who knows who you can and cannot trust? At least one person did raise their concerns to management, for all we know, others did too to varying degrees. The casino did a review. Those with suspicions have probably been second guessing themselves. Maybe people wanted more evidence, maybe people knew that they would cop criticism or be ostracised if they said or did anything. The only blame, if any, should be reserved for those that are involved in what looks to be cheating.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:03 PM   #1075
Alex Wice
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re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The 88 vs TT hand, he's stupid to not just chkfold the turn, wouldnt be the most OOL thing he did. Also he should play faster instead of do these stupid fake tanks since his winrate is like $1700/h in this game

Btw its now becoming somewhat clear that Justin is in on it, as I said earlier
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