Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2020, 12:05 PM   #10526
Turdzilla
veteran
 
Turdzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: From here to eternity
Posts: 2,448
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Earlier this year an accusation was made that a player was cheating in our game.

When was this?

Did they perform a comprehensive investigation in the two days after V commented?
Turdzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2020, 06:01 PM   #10527
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
unless he is sneaking in the back door and working in some back office that nobody is aware of, the people who play there, who have talked to the staff, say that he is not working there (being on staff is a different issue). where did you hear this?
I just heard or read it somewhere on the Internet. Your information is better. Interesting, but not surprising that they wouldn't want him working there after what happened.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:45 AM   #10528
Turdzilla
veteran
 
Turdzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: From here to eternity
Posts: 2,448
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Interesting article

https://www.chartwelllaw.com/resourc...-risk-exposure
Turdzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 03:10 AM   #10529
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turdzilla View Post
Interesting that is an article on a law firm website. It apparently incorrectly states that Mike Postle was not a professional poker player. From what I understand he was a long time low to mid stakes grinder.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 04:03 AM   #10530
ChicagoJoey
Papi
 
ChicagoJoey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: I AM GTO
Posts: 15,434
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Very interesting article - thanks for posting.

Helps you to realize the entire live stream setup needs to be held to much stricter guidelines than a couple random dudes in a room and anyone that has the key for the program with access. People are playing for thousands of dollars on these live streams. I can't imagine what has gone on in the past with these shows.

I think about the LATB setup in the past and I can't believe they played for tens of thousands of dollars. There are no safe guards in place if one of the people involved with the show decide to signal in some capacity. It was a few people in the backroom who all had various relationships with the players in the game. If someone has access to the stream in another part of the building - you would never know. It's crazy that this is how things operate.

I remember going to play at some random live stream game in Akron Ohio. It never even crossed my mind this type of stuff was possible lol I just put my random faith in it. What else can you do besides not play I suppose. I did the same when I played on LATB in the past without ever considering how easy it was.

Last edited by ChicagoJoey; 03-05-2020 at 04:09 AM.
ChicagoJoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 04:52 AM   #10531
ChicagoJoey
Papi
 
ChicagoJoey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: I AM GTO
Posts: 15,434
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Started watching another stream lmao I forgot about how ****ing crazy this is. The guy plays almost every hand pre-flop - calling 3bets/4bets with bad hands - CONSTANT crotch looking and then play accordingly. The most blatant thing I've ever seen. I forgot why I got so obsessed with this.

It's almost impossible to get caught doing this unless you have an inside man tell on you. No one is going back reviewing the streams to put together patterns.
ChicagoJoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 12:17 PM   #10532
CactusJack
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 337
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
Very interesting article - thanks for posting.

Helps you to realize the entire live stream setup needs to be held to much stricter guidelines than a couple random dudes in a room and anyone that has the key for the program with access. People are playing for thousands of dollars on these live streams. I can't imagine what has gone on in the past with these shows.

I think about the LATB setup in the past and I can't believe they played for tens of thousands of dollars. There are no safe guards in place if one of the people involved with the show decide to signal in some capacity. It was a few people in the backroom who all had various relationships with the players in the game. If someone has access to the stream in another part of the building - you would never know. It's crazy that this is how things operate.

I remember going to play at some random live stream game in Akron Ohio. It never even crossed my mind this type of stuff was possible lol I just put my random faith in it. What else can you do besides not play I suppose. I did the same when I played on LATB in the past without ever considering how easy it was.
I am constantly amazed about how very few people even know about this situation. When I bring the issue up while playing its rare that more than one person at the table, dealers included, have even heard about it.

I was watching a recent stream out of Texas and the commentator was replying to comments in the chat saying that cheating could be happening in the game. The commentator said something like, "relax guys, we are on a delay."

I'm still salty about Lawyer Tony allegations in Austin (2012ish) so it was frustrating to hear. It's clear to me that some of the newer streams popping up are still very questionable. Really shocking that they are not even discussing these things when they set these streams up.
CactusJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 02:09 PM   #10533
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The article in the law firm's site was about how businesses can be sued over things they never have imagined. Stone's top management probably never imagined the live stream would create this problem in terms of liability and reputation. They probably aren't thrilled with Justin. Maybe he has a desk by the furnace in the basement or something.

Yeh, the cheating was unbelievably blatant at Stones, and it makes you wonder about other televised poker.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 04:16 PM   #10534
agamblerthen
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SF
Posts: 365
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Stones Gambling Hall asks court to toss lawsuit over alleged cheating by poker player:
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cr...240882781.html

“This lawsuit reflects the oldest complaint of gamblers — that their lack of success means they were cheated,” a motion for dismissal by Stones’ parent company, Kings Casino LLC, declares.
agamblerthen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 04:31 PM   #10535
Eponymous
Photoshop Comic Genius
 
Eponymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: How many letters do we have for thi
Posts: 4,572
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
“Stones had no stake in who won money or lost money in the poker games,” the motion states. “All Stones did was to provide a venue for the poker game."
As is they're not responsible for ensuring a fair game.
Eponymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 06:58 PM   #10536
dhubermex
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 1,666
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)


Last edited by dhubermex; 03-05-2020 at 07:21 PM.
dhubermex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 08:43 PM   #10537
Turdzilla
veteran
 
Turdzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: From here to eternity
Posts: 2,448
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Does anyone know is a copy of the investigation was included with their motion to dismiss?
Turdzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 10:37 PM   #10538
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,333
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
The article above states



So, who in Stones management besides Justin did Veronica talk to about her concerns?
I could see her talking to Art Van Loon, the casino manager over there. I would assume Art is/was JFK's boss.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 11:26 PM   #10539
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous View Post
As is they're not responsible for ensuring a fair game.
Their lawyers are going to try, but Stones is being sued because it is claimed that at least one Stones manager was involved in the cheating. It is not like some players colluding or marking cards.

Last edited by deuceblocker; 03-05-2020 at 11:46 PM.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2020, 11:33 PM   #10540
arcdog
veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: augusta, georgia
Posts: 2,088
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by agamblerthen View Post
Stones Gambling Hall asks court to toss lawsuit over alleged cheating by poker player:
https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cr...240882781.html

“This lawsuit reflects the oldest complaint of gamblers — that their lack of success means they were cheated,” a motion for dismissal by Stones’ parent company, Kings Casino LLC, declares.
Yep - gamblers always file lawsuits against casinos after losing - oldest trick in the book
arcdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 01:15 AM   #10541
MicroDonkYT
grinder
 
MicroDonkYT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 543
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

“We have found no evidence that indicates there was cheating in the games in question,” Stones said in a statement Wednesday. “Stones is confident that it will prevail in this unwarranted lawsuit.”

HAHA. I needed a good laugh. I hope the state regulators take their license away for gross negligence.
MicroDonkYT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 01:32 AM   #10542
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,926
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
I could see her talking to Art Van Loon, the casino manager over there. I would assume Art is/was JFK's boss.
Nope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
nobody besides Justin
AngusThermopyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 01:41 AM   #10543
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,926
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcdog View Post
Yep - gamblers always file lawsuits against casinos after losing - oldest trick in the book
What the lawyers are saying is the claims "his win rate was too high" and "he made perfect decisions" are just sour grapes.

They will demand "show us proof of how he cheated" not just "well, he must have had the information"

And if the investigation of their system by the forensics company they hired shows no hacking etc then ...
AngusThermopyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 11:39 AM   #10544
Eponymous
Photoshop Comic Genius
 
Eponymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: How many letters do we have for thi
Posts: 4,572
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Their lawyers are going to try, but Stones is being sued because it is claimed that at least one Stones manager was involved in the cheating. It is not like some players colluding or marking cards.
Yes, although even if there wasn't a manager directly involved, they're making it sound like their responsibility stops at simply providing the venue. They also are responsible for ensuring the integrity of the game to a reasonable degree. If Postle were able to get the live feed by getting access to the Poker GFX software (as has been posited), that would be negligence on their part for which they could be held responsible.

Btw, I had a typo in my post that you quoted. Should have been:
Quote:
As if they're not responsible for ensuring a fair game.
Eponymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 12:03 PM   #10545
SandraXII
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,970
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

can you imagine if postle wins this case and tries to take action for defamation/lost earnings or something
SandraXII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 12:24 PM   #10546
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous View Post
Yes, although even if there wasn't a manager directly involved, they're making it sound like their responsibility stops at simply providing the venue. They also are responsible for ensuring the integrity of the game to a reasonable degree. If Postle were able to get the live feed by getting access to the Poker GFX software (as has been posited), that would be negligence on their part for which they could be held responsible.

Btw, I had a typo in my post that you quoted. Should have been:
I would think that involvement of the casino manager responsible for the live feed would make the case against Stones stronger.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 12:26 PM   #10547
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SandraXII View Post
can you imagine if postle wins this case and tries to take action for defamation/lost earnings or something
Not going to happen. These cases are almost always settled, not won or loss, and truth is a defense to defamation, libel, and slander.

Postle hasn't lost any earnings except in crooked games. He can grind 1/3 or 2/5 NL anywhere he wants.

Last edited by deuceblocker; 03-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 12:26 PM   #10548
ashwebster
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 13
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

So by the sounds of it Stones is taking the dirty approach. They must have wiped all the hard drives and records/logs of the RFID etc to be that confident on filing for dismissal. There is zero chance that they (Upper management) don't know what went on.

If they had gone the other route, obviously that admits guilt, and possibly voids insurance, (might have been backed into a corner i guess), but we all still would have appreciated a bit of openness and honesty from them. i.e saying we are ashamed to have employed someone complicit in this cheating scandal and we are working hard to provide all the evidence needed etc etc..

I hope this goes very badly for them.
ashwebster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 01:16 PM   #10549
Eponymous
Photoshop Comic Genius
 
Eponymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: How many letters do we have for thi
Posts: 4,572
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
I would think that involvement of the casino manager responsible for the live feed would make the case against Stones stronger.
Yes, for sure. I was just pointing out the weakness of their statement. Basically saying all they are responsible for is giving them a place to play. But they also are responsible for the game being honest. An employee being involved is definitely even worse.
Eponymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2020, 01:40 PM   #10550
SonofDjugashvili
adept
 
SonofDjugashvili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CCCP
Posts: 1,107
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This is just standard - you often see the same sort of thing in lawsuits as a result of a slip & fall for example. A motion to dismiss is a long-shot, but even if there is a 1% chance of success, it's worth a shot as it kills the whole thing early and relatively cheaply. It is a pretty high bar as the defendant (casino) has to show there is no merit to the case at all and a trial would be a waste of time. Presumably, they will fail. I would not take anything they say in the motion documents too personally - they are just throwing the proverbial crap at the wall and hoping it sticks.
SonofDjugashvili is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive