Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2019, 12:37 AM   #10026
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Stones seems like a small place. It doesn't seem to have slots. It says 15 table game tables and 17 poker tables.

So this JFK was the poker room manager. Should that put him at least in the top 5 managers of the place?

As far as Postle, it seems like he had been playing full time for 15 years and was grinding 1/3 NL. So he probably was that good a player. It seems like he liked making those God-like plays and wasn't skilled or clever enough to cheat in a more subtle way.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 01:12 AM   #10027
Natamus
Tripped and Fell
 
Natamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Where the buggalo roam
Posts: 16,373
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
Stones seems like a small place. It doesn't seem to have slots. It says 15 table game tables and 17 poker tables.

So this JFK was the poker room manager. Should that put him at least in the top 5 managers of the place?

As far as Postle, it seems like he had been playing full time for 15 years and was grinding 1/3 NL. So he probably was that good a player. It seems like he liked making those God-like plays and wasn't skilled or clever enough to cheat in a more subtle way.


That is correct regarding stones size. In California non Tribal casinos don’t have slots/VP machines
Natamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 01:46 AM   #10028
AngusThermopyle
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AngusThermopyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 乱
Posts: 14,926
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post

So this JFK was the poker room manager. Should that put him at least in the top 5 managers of the place?

My understanding was that his title was Tournament Director, not Poker Room Manager.
AngusThermopyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 02:05 AM   #10029
deuceblocker
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,263
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle View Post
My understanding was that his title was Tournament Director, not Poker Room Manager.
A little place like that had a full time Tournament Director? This live stream was of a cash game.
deuceblocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 12:04 PM   #10030
tgiggity
Pooh-Bah
 
tgiggity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 5,573
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

yes they had a tournament director, though I've seen justin at the LAPT and I'm assuming he worked at other casinos as well because Stones only ran ~3 tournaments a week and all of them were very small. the TD was also involved in organizing streamed games - usually justin would go around the room with his list if there were open seats to fill in the upcoming stream
tgiggity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 04:52 PM   #10031
Wilbury Twist
Pooh-Bah
 
Wilbury Twist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 4977 miles from Kells
Posts: 5,333
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
A little place like that had a full time Tournament Director? This live stream was of a cash game.
Funny, I've long had the opposite reaction, that there is ONLY one. Stones has a tourney every day (including the weekends), plus an evening event on certain nights, plus one on each of the last Saturdays and Sundays of the month. On top of that, they had the streamed cash game a few times per week.

And yet every time I've played at Stones (which wasn't THAT often, I'll admit), JFK was there.
Wilbury Twist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 10:53 AM   #10032
Koko the munkey
veteran
 
Koko the munkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SWFL
Posts: 3,182
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbury Twist View Post
Funny, I've long had the opposite reaction, that there is ONLY one. Stones has a tourney every day (including the weekends), plus an evening event on certain nights, plus one on each of the last Saturdays and Sundays of the month. On top of that, they had the streamed cash game a few times per week.

And yet every time I've played at Stones (which wasn't THAT often, I'll admit), JFK was there.
I haven't played at Stones in several years, but the last time I was there Justin had two other tournament directors working for him.
Koko the munkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 11:35 AM   #10033
SuitedJunk
veteran
 
SuitedJunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,682
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think the thing you are all missing is this... once someone who has access to the streaming software copies the streaming key, you can access the data feeding to the stream in real time. Do not need to click anything on the computer after that.

So if he had access to the computer for 20 seconds he could have copied the code, entered it on his device and watched it in real time on his phone, or even had someone watch the card data for him and feed him advice.
SuitedJunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 03:17 PM   #10034
aoFrantic
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
aoFrantic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 23,505
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgiggity View Post
yeah I've played with non-god mode mike a few times at stones. I even table changed to bum hunt him once when he decided to play higher than 1/3. he's horrible at poker
Its wild that people defend him by saying the game played bigger. Of course it did! A known whale had huge stacks and was playing nearly every hand (badly). Anyone who has ever played live poker knows what happens to a game when the whale gets ~500bb+.
aoFrantic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 03:31 PM   #10035
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuitedJunk View Post
I think the thing you are all missing is this... once someone who has access to the streaming software copies the streaming key, you can access the data feeding to the stream in real time. Do not need to click anything on the computer after that.

So if he had access to the computer for 20 seconds he could have copied the code, entered it on his device and watched it in real time on his phone, or even had someone watch the card data for him and feed him advice.
I thought that the ease of access depended on how they'd set up their stream configuration. There was one video about needing to add an extra 'output' stream or something like that.

Has it been confirmed what setup they were using and how it was configured?
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 03:34 PM   #10036
SuitedJunk
veteran
 
SuitedJunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,682
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
I thought that the ease of access depended on how they'd set up their stream configuration. There was one video about needing to add an extra 'output' stream or something like that.

Has it been confirmed what setup they were using and how it was configured?
I thought I read someone else say they use OBS Studio which is the most common thing...

All you need to do is go to:

File - Settings - Stream

Copy the Stream Key link

once you have the "Stream Key Link" you can watch anything in realtime going through OBS. This would be before any delays.
SuitedJunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 03:35 PM   #10037
SuitedJunk
veteran
 
SuitedJunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,682
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

You can download the software for free... Once you go through the setup process you can see how easy it is to copy to code.

https://obsproject.com/
SuitedJunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 03:47 PM   #10038
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yea, but that looks like a regular broadcast package. It doesn't read the RFID cards. I thought I saw Joey talk to someone about the poker side of the system that had a built in delay.
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 04:06 PM   #10039
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Found it: http://www.videopokertable.net/features.aspx PokerGFX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qar90n6teQ
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 04:27 PM   #10040
gradx
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Realityville, USA
Posts: 1,862
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuitedJunk View Post
I thought I read someone else say they use OBS Studio which is the most common thing...

All you need to do is go to:

File - Settings - Stream

Copy the Stream Key link

once you have the "Stream Key Link" you can watch anything in realtime going through OBS. This would be before any delays.
OBS should add per session keys
gradx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 04:58 PM   #10041
TimM
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TimM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,540
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
Its wild that people defend him by saying the game played bigger. Of course it did! A known whale had huge stacks and was playing nearly every hand (badly). Anyone who has ever played live poker knows what happens to a game when the whale gets ~500bb+.
They have somewhat of a point because it makes the statistical win rate argument a little weaker. I.E. if the BB should not really be considered $3, then he didn't really win 1000BB/100 as shown here: https://i.imgur.com/66i3Tii.jpg

But he would still be a big outlier in any reasonable estimation of this game's size.

What would be interesting is to see a graph of standard deviation, in BB/100 hands, of Postle and other Stones stream players. That will give a better idea of the effective size of the game, and I suspect Postle will also be an outlier on this graph, this time on the low side.
TimM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 05:58 PM   #10042
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

One of the key statistical arguments will be the action choices on the river.

If you have perfect information there should be no need to ever just call (unless the opponent is already all-in with their bet). If you're behind you should fold, or *maybe* bluff if the opponent is weak. If you're ahead you should always be raising. The only reason *not* to raise would be to disguise your knowledge. Either way your "went to showdown" number comes down a lot.

When you look at normal poker players they have a pretty significant number of calls on the river.

Those numbers are pretty easy to calculate from the stream data. They even reported them on stream a few times (AND comment how Mike's were weird). You'll see a large difference in Postle's play between CTO mode and reg-donk mode. And I'd bet that one of the numbers lines up with the rest of the Stone's player pool, while the other does not.
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 12:25 AM   #10043
gradx
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Realityville, USA
Posts: 1,862
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gradx View Post
OBS should add per session keys
Someone needs to check with OBS to see what metadata is logged for this activity. You could tie it to an IP address and get a subpoena for the details. This most likely would have to be done on an internal network so IT admins are in scope as well
gradx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 02:38 AM   #10044
onemoretimes
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,375
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This guy has got to be stressed AF now. Unless he was stressed AF before because he had no money so he resorted to cheating. Now he's learning the meaning of the saying, money doesn't make happiness.
onemoretimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 06:09 AM   #10045
SimpleRick
veteran
 
SimpleRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,480
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
One of the key statistical arguments will be the action choices on the river.

If you have perfect information there should be no need to ever just call (unless the opponent is already all-in with their bet). If you're behind you should fold, or *maybe* bluff if the opponent is weak. If you're ahead you should always be raising. The only reason *not* to raise would be to disguise your knowledge. Either way your "went to showdown" number comes down a lot.

When you look at normal poker players they have a pretty significant number of calls on the river.

Those numbers are pretty easy to calculate from the stream data. They even reported them on stream a few times (AND comment how Mike's were weird). You'll see a large difference in Postle's play between CTO mode and reg-donk mode. And I'd bet that one of the numbers lines up with the rest of the Stone's player pool, while the other does not.
If your opponent is bluffing and you know it then raising just opens up the possibility of getting 3bet and having to make a highly suspicious call or just looking funny. Calling river makes sense when you are bluff catching river with a marginal hand.
SimpleRick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 06:30 AM   #10046
Hellmuth was right
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,036
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
If your opponent is bluffing and you know it then raising just opens up the possibility of getting 3bet and having to make a highly suspicious call or just looking funny. Calling river makes sense when you are bluff catching river with a marginal hand.
nobody ever 3bet bluffs river in live poker. ever.
Hellmuth was right is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 07:50 AM   #10047
GreatBigRedOne
grinder
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 618
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellmuth was right View Post
nobody ever 3bet bluffs river in live poker. ever.
I do.
GreatBigRedOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 03:00 PM   #10048
Angrist
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,884
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
If your opponent is bluffing and you know it then raising just opens up the possibility of getting 3bet and having to make a highly suspicious call or just looking funny. Calling river makes sense when you are bluff catching river with a marginal hand.
Well, yea. That's what I meant about "The only reason *not* to raise would be to disguise your knowledge." If you get 3-bet bluff (in that very rare situation) you can stack someone with a hero call. Or you could just *jam* yourself and eliminate that possibility, which makes you move look like a "sick play bro!".

I'm pretty sure I saw him pull similar **** even if it looked suspicious. That's kind of why we're talking about this at all.
Angrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 09:44 AM   #10049
Husker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Husker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Holsten's Diner
Posts: 12,378
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Mike Postle sighting (8:30 in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=535_aj2qW_Q
Husker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 11:55 AM   #10050
Gzesh
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UTG
Posts: 5,704
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Mike Postle sighting (8:30 in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=535_aj2qW_Q
Liked the analysis of his slot play/comps/driving back to Cali, then returning to Nevada just get his slot comp for the night.... then reportedly having them taken away when a poker manager sees him on the slot floor.

Question, if Mike is adjudicated guilty of cheating in California, would Nevada consider formally banning him from its casinos ?

What about other California card rooms, have or would he be banned or unwelcome ?

Last edited by Gzesh; 12-08-2019 at 12:08 PM.
Gzesh is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive