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Old 11-02-2019, 12:59 PM   #9576
TimM
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Guys JFK was misheard. He actually said Postle is using a Nightingale strategy, which basically means he has a guardian angel feeding him all the cards.
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Old 11-02-2019, 01:09 PM   #9577
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eponymous View Post
Read some other posts before you post in all-caps with your unassailable knowledge. He was referencing the fact that some people have tried to apply it to poker, as was pointed out in this post:
OK got me, sorry. But was he using the Stategy?

THis means that he has to double the buyin if he loses. Did he do this?
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Old 11-02-2019, 01:19 PM   #9578
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by washoe View Post
OK got me, sorry. But was he using the Stategy?

THis means that he has to double the buyin if he loses. Did he do this?
No one thinks he was using the Martingale strategy, except possibly JFK. At least he told Veronica that he does. So no, he did not double his buy-in.
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Old 11-02-2019, 01:56 PM   #9579
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I play 1/3 no cap nlh with this guy who often uses the following strategy:
initial buy in = 500
Goes all in quickly—at least by the 8th hand
If lose, rebuy = 500
All in soon
If lose, rebuy = 1000
Etc until rebuy becomes 4000-5000.
Isn’t This a (modified) martingale? BTW, he usually loses between 4K and 10k each time, but occasionally will clean up.
Needless to say, people are lined up to get into the game.
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:01 PM   #9580
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

A question about the legal aspects.

I have been following a cheating scandal in snooker. Some top- but not quite top-top-level players were payed by gamblers to throw frames or even whole games. The players took the money and did their deed, thinking it a positive EV proposition. It made for funny scrappy games, where the top player had trouble to accomplish their deal by actually losing to the fish. What seems important is that it was the bribed player who got severely punished. Much less the bribing gamblers who got the freeroll, at the cost of all other players who lost money by making a reasonable but losing bet.

Comparing with the Postle situation, it would be Postle seen as the one freerolling, at the expense of other players in the stream.

US law to some extent follows UK law, which was applied in the snooker gambling cases.
But I wonder if there are precedents in the US for a court deciding that if money has been won by someone who deliberately and illegally tweaks the outcome of an event that was subject to legal betting, then the ruling is passed that they have to reimburse the bettors who were mislead?
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:09 PM   #9581
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by washoe View Post
THERE IS NO MARTINGALE STRATEGY FOR POKER,

IT SIMPLY DOESNT EXIST FOR POKER


https://www.pokernews.com/casino/martingale-system.htm


If Justin said this and he said it, there is def something off.
Yes there is Morty. And no Mike Postle wasn't doubling his buy-in per se when he lost but I think Justin Kuraitis meant a sort of modified Martingale system whereby Mike would top up to the max stack. Thus in effect increasing the amount he was risking after any losses. This wasn't stated explicitly by Justin, it's just my own speculation as to what he could mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taeto View Post
A question about the legal aspects.

I have been following a cheating scandal in snooker. Some top- but not quite top-top-level players were payed by gamblers to throw frames or even whole games. The players took the money and did their deed, thinking it a positive EV proposition. It made for funny scrappy games, where the top player had trouble to accomplish their deal by actually losing to the fish. What seems important is that it was the bribed player who got severely punished. Much less the bribing gamblers who got the freeroll, at the cost of all other players who lost money by making a reasonable but losing bet.

Comparing with the Postle situation, it would be Postle seen as the one freerolling, at the expense of other players in the stream.

US law to some extent follows UK law, which was applied in the snooker gambling cases.
But I wonder if there are precedents in the US for a court deciding that if money has been won by someone who deliberately and illegally tweaks the outcome of an event that was subject to legal betting, then the ruling is passed that they have to reimburse the bettors who were mislead?
Cheating in poker is theft by deception. It is a crime. If proven Mike Postle faces jail time. How much time or if it can even be proven in a criminal court seems doubtful.

In civil court it there is lesser burden of proof and yes Mike Postle would have to repay any money stolen as well as other damages if he is found guilty. And the Stones Gambling Hall could be held liable as well.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:10 PM   #9582
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
guys... for what it's worth, the martingale thing may have never been said, it's he said vs she said and she is recalling from several months back and has an obvious motive for bias

i'm not calling her a liar, I'm just saying just because she said it doesn't mean it actually happened

martingdale just seems way too absurd to be true - if he did say it, I almost want to believe it was meant as a sarcastic f off rather than something genuinely meant

either way, whether or not he said that is besides the point anyway
I was taken back by the things he said and typed them out in my phone after we spoke...literally that day. I reached out to a few people, including Bart Hanson, the following day to get their feedback. Why would I make any of this up? this is not ever referenced in poker which it why I was so confused when Justin spoke to me about it.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:13 PM   #9583
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Was Justin (JFK) still doing real-time texting of the hole cards, while he was on a beach in the Bahamas? (There are at least two confirmed Godmode sessions from when JFK was out of the country).
I think it's much more likely that the holecard data was being beamed across the room, either via text, or directly from the RFID/ActionTracker/pokerGfx software in the 'peek room'. By Taylor Smith.
For the bulk of the sessions under investigation, there were only two people in the building (not the commentators, not the floor manager) that knew the holecards. Taylor Smith and Mike Postle were those two people.
What is interesting is that often when JFK would be on vacation he was still in the livestream chat. He was almost always involved even when gone.
I do agree that they may have needed a third person to pull this off in the event of JFKs absence.
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:21 PM   #9584
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
I honestly think it was just Mike with no outside help. All it would take is him learning the stream id or whatever when he was helping to set up the Dream Seat game that he was trying to get going and Justin being dumb enough to let him have access. Hanlon's razor and occam's razor. Don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity and the simplest explanation is the most likely. Justin should still be fired and never work in poker again due to his gross incompetence.
I think that Mike doing this alone is an extraordinary claim that needs extraordinary evidence.
How do you suppose he would've done this alone?
I don't think this could be done without 2 people and at most 4.
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Old 11-02-2019, 05:41 PM   #9585
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
I was taken back by the things he said and typed them out in my phone after we spoke...literally that day. I reached out to a few people, including Bart Hanson, the following day to get their feedback. Why would I make any of this up? this is not ever referenced in poker which it why I was so confused when Justin spoke to me about it.
veronica, there's been a misunderstanding, i never accused you of making anything up or lying and I apologize if it came off that way

i was unaware you'd done record keeping and were communicating with others at the time and believed you were recalling what happened - I since learned you were very meticulous and thus that ruled out any possibility of poor memory - and that wasn't an attack, it's just scientific fact that is something everyone suffers from as people's memories are extremely unreliable - I would question my own recollection of any events I were to recall that happened several months prior as well had I not taken notes on it.

since you're here commenting, could you please shed light on that conversation - as you've seen we're all extremely curious about how one could make such a claim and are curious how he specifically phrased it and if you asked any follow up questions about it.

Was it "Mike is advanced and uses martingdale and that's why he wins" and then the conversation was over or was there more back and forth?

we're all extremely curious about this conversation because that statement is almost more absurd than someone cheating on a live stream

I just don't see how he could say that with a straight face and then have defended it under scrutiny so any light you could shed on that statement would be highly appreciated by all.

Last edited by rickroll; 11-02-2019 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 05:53 PM   #9586
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
I think that Mike doing this alone is an extraordinary claim that needs extraordinary evidence.
How do you suppose he would've done this alone?
I don't think this could be done without 2 people and at most 4.
Hi Veronica - has your complaint and demand for trial by jury been responded to yet?
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:09 PM   #9587
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by rickroll View Post
veronica, there's been a misunderstanding, i never accused you of making anything up or lying and I apologize if it came off that way

i was unaware you'd done record keeping and were communicating with others at the time and believed you were recalling what happened - I since learned you were very meticulous and thus that ruled out any possibility of poor memory - and that wasn't an attack, it's just scientific fact that is something everyone suffers from as people's memories are extremely unreliable - I would question my own recollection of any events I were to recall that happened several months prior as well had I not taken notes on it.

since you're here commenting, could you please shed light on that conversation - as you've seen we're all extremely curious about how one could make such a claim and are curious how he specifically phrased it and if you asked any follow up questions about it.

Was it "Mike is advanced and uses martingdale and that's why he wins" and then the conversation was over or was there more back and forth?

I understand you're legal counsel is probably asking you not to comment here, but if it's alright, we're all extremely curious about this conversation because that statement is almost more absurd than someone cheating on a live stream

I just don't see how he could say that with a straight face and then have defended it under scrutiny so any light you could shed on that statement would be highly appreciated by all.
1. it wasn't about being meticulous more trying to summarize what he told me so that i could review it with my pro poker friends. I often wasn't sure about hands I saw or things that were said and I'd want to get the input of people who were experts in that area. I typically want to remain objective as I analyze a situation (in more than just poker).
2. the conversation is one that I often reflect on because I think the majority of what went on had an initial perception vs the post review of the situation with a different understanding of what was actually going on. It's hard for me to remove what i know now, as it's affected my understanding of the situation. That being said here is my memory of the conversation: i asked to speak with him before the show. As we often did when having a private conversation, we sat in the back part of Sammy's restaurant (located in the casino) that was always less crowded. I remember opening up about concerns regarding Mike potentially cheating and that a handful of people had concerns. I remember JKF not at all having a reactionary shock or objective concern and that seemed odd to me at the time - i want to expand on this-- it seemed odd to me that he had this reaction because i thought being so heavily involved in poker, and loving the livestream as much as he did, he seemed clueless about poker (given this reaction). I now think that he was doing this to cover things up but I still believe him to be clueless about poker...mostly in regards as to how we measure GTO play vs poor lines (i think his ego got the best of him here thinking he could bring Mike in the booth and make it all better). He seemed amused by the accusation and laughed a bit during the conversation. As we all saw, i typed out the main points of his end of the conversation.
We had a good back and forth with him laughing at times telling me that there is ZERO chance that any cheating is going on.
My legal counsel has not at all told me that I can't talk, i have been doing a ton of podcasts and interviews. I have nothing to hide besides some terrible past commentary that i'm embarrassed of now.
I did think that the conversation did not go well and that i was dismissed
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:16 PM   #9588
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Olswang View Post
Hi Veronica - has your complaint and demand for trial by jury been responded to yet?
by whom? the state? Stones? Postle? JKF?
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:16 PM   #9589
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

thank you for sharing in the thread
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:17 PM   #9590
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
by whom? the state? Stones? Postle? JKF?
Any of them.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:44 PM   #9591
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If he is innocent somehow (lol), JKF is the worst employee in casino history.
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:48 PM   #9592
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Thanks Veronica. Took balls to come forward like you did. Nice job!
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:58 PM   #9593
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Early on in the cheating, footage shows Postle clearly shielding his phone from JFK's prying eyes.
Later on, the cheating happens while JFK isn't even in the country.

JFK was clearly negligent with regard to investigating the suspicions of people like Veronica. He also engaged in some kind of cover-up when the rumours wouldn't go away. I haven't got any "technological" evidence that he was directly involved in helping Postle cheat. Postle needed someone else (the "tech guy") for that.
Agree, can't just be JFK. It is possible it's just the 'Tech Guy(s)', and JFK is just a negligent idiot.

Last edited by soapdodger; 11-02-2019 at 09:00 PM. Reason: and Go Veronica!
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:27 PM   #9594
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If I see another mention of the word "martingale" in this thread i will start to drill into my own brain.
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Old 11-03-2019, 12:22 AM   #9595
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Angry_Polak View Post
I think that Mike doing this alone is an extraordinary claim that needs extraordinary evidence.
How do you suppose he would've done this alone?
I don't think this could be done without 2 people and at most 4.
Mike supposedly did a test stream of his Dream Seat poker show with Justin correct? It would be easy to install some sort of screen grabbing software/virus if left alone with the graphics overlay computer for more than a minute. Or if he managed to figure out or see the stream ID for the pokergraphics they used. Considering he was given access to the backroom at some point I don't think it's extraordinary to suggest that Mike Postle could be a lone bad actor in this case. Actually I think that's the simplest explanation. Moreso than a conspiracy that would require at some point one of the parties involved broaching the subject of committing a crime. How would that go? Mike: "Hey Justin wanna risk your career and your freedom to make some money?" or Justin: "Hey Mike wanna cheat at poker and split the profits with me?". Both seem unlikely to me. But of course they could have felt each other out and then broached that topic. A conspiracy just seems a lot less likely than a lone bad actor taking advantage of lax security. No one is claiming Stones had any serious security measure in place that Mike Postle couldn't have overcome on his own in these circumstances.

Even if Justin Kuraitis is innocent I still think he's an a-hole for just dismissing your initial suspicions of cheating and the condescending way he did it. And at best he is grossly incompetent for allowing this whole mess to occur under his watch. But don't attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity (Hanlon's razor).

Thanks for bringing this scandal to light and good luck in all your future endeavors!

Last edited by SimpleRick; 11-03-2019 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-03-2019, 12:46 AM   #9596
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by barney big nuts View Post
Thanks Veronica. Took balls to come forward like you did. Nice job!
Yeah, there were probably other people who suspected something and maybe some who complained. It took courage to do what she did.
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Old 11-03-2019, 01:02 AM   #9597
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by n00ki5 View Post
If he is innocent somehow (lol), JKF is the worst employee in casino history.
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:49 AM   #9598
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
Mike supposedly did a test stream of his Dream Seat poker show with Justin correct? It would be easy to install some sort of screen grabbing software/virus if left alone with the graphics overlay computer for more than a minute. Or if he managed to figure out or see the stream ID for the pokergraphics they used. Considering he was given access to the backroom at some point I don't think it's extraordinary to suggest that Mike Postle could be a lone bad actor in this case. Actually I think that's the simplest explanation. Moreso than a conspiracy that would require at some point one of the parties involved broaching the subject of committing a crime. How would that go? Mike: "Hey Justin wanna risk your career and your freedom to make some money?" or Justin: "Hey Mike wanna cheat at poker and split the profits with me?". Both seem unlikely to me. But of course they could have felt each other out and then broached that topic. A conspiracy just seems a lot less likely than a lone bad actor taking advantage of lax security. No one is claiming Stones had any serious security measure in place that Mike Postle couldn't have overcome on his own in these circumstances.

Even if Justin Kuraitis is innocent I still think he's an a-hole for just dismissing your initial suspicions of cheating and the condescending way he did it. And at best he is grossly incompetent for allowing this whole mess to occur under his watch. But don't attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity (Hanlon's razor).

Thanks for bringing this scandal to light and good luck in all your future endeavors!
I'm curious what your thoughts are on the last night i did commentary when Berkey was in the game. There were no phones allowed at the table at that time and his hat was stuffed. How would he be able to pull it off alone without his phone?
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Old 11-03-2019, 05:01 AM   #9599
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That does sound like he would have had an accomplice at that point, but it could have been a non-insider friend who is looking at his phone and reading the info to Mike via the headphones in his stuffed hat. That would still be consistent with the theory that Mike set up the link to the poker graphics stream. However, it seems more likely to me that there was an insider involved because it's harder to explain the actions of JFK otherwise.
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:03 AM   #9600
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakemeplz View Post
If I see another mention of the word "martingale" in this thread i will start to drill into my own brain.
Do not forget to incrementally increase the drill bit size until you get the desired effect.

Thx Veronica for your many hours of broadcasting and bringing light to this situation.
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