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Old 10-24-2019, 07:34 PM   #9326
Natamus
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
That's actually a large enough difference that it might be statistically significant.



One possibility was that Postle preferred to do God mode when he had commentators who he felt either wouldn't notice it or wouldn't call it out.

Ok bro, any other straw men we should build?
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:01 PM   #9327
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Ok bro, any other straw men we should build?
There's enough of a correlation there that you shouldn't dismiss the possibility that the commentators are relevant in some way.

That's not a straw man.
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:22 PM   #9328
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
There's enough of a correlation there that you shouldn't dismiss the possibility that the commentators are relevant in some way.

That's not a straw man.
You must know that correlation does not prove causation.

Nor is it probative of any collusion with the commentators or any commentator involvement in a conspiracy or RICO corrupt enterprise with Mike.

And, that Mike only cheated SOME of the time or that he cheated only when certain commentators were on ther job is not very relevant as to Mike's activity being legal or illegal etc.
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:33 PM   #9329
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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You must know that correlation does not prove causation.



Nor is it probative of any collusion with the commentators or any commentator involvement in a conspiracy or RICO corrupt enterprise with Mike.



And, that Mike only cheated SOME of the time or that he cheated only when certain commentators were on ther job is not very relevant as to Mike's activity being legal or illegal etc.


Thank you.

I didn’t think this needed to be stated but I guess it wasn’t as obvious as I had thought. Thanks G
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:46 PM   #9330
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
You must know that correlation does not prove causation.

Nor is it probative of any collusion with the commentators or any commentator involvement in a conspiracy or RICO corrupt enterprise with Mike.

And, that Mike only cheated SOME of the time or that he cheated only when certain commentators were on ther job is not very relevant as to Mike's activity being legal or illegal etc.
I think the investigation into what happened, how he did it, etc., is broader than what may or may not be legal or provable in court. And also interesting.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:35 PM   #9331
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by washoe View Post
Im not saying the commentators are in on it idk,

But if they where not, they all acted like a cult, or thats the vibe I got.

It was the Mike Postle Cult.

And everyone was worshipping him, add all the memes and the name calling

and then you have a very weeeird show.

Where did he come from if he is so good he must have played different games (not the smaller buy in mtts)

And he would have been more recognized. And not with these lines he took.

The Commentators must have had a strange feeling playing along, or at least

I would think. Imgagine you worship this guy on stream? Ohh hees the best! Ohh yeah he takes some stupid lines, but hes a genious and just press a meme button and worship the guy

some more. (veronicas reaction when she couldnt believe the line he took. that kind of

feeling they should have got)
you have to be specific about who.

some of them were one-off appearances and you cant expect people to develop any kind of suspicion after one session.

some of them seemed like they were in genuine disbelief and said things like "he must be able to see the hole cards" which is something you wouldn't say if you had an interest in keeping it under wraps.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:37 PM   #9332
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

guilty
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:42 PM   #9333
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
You must know that correlation does not prove causation.

Nor is it probative of any collusion with the commentators or any commentator involvement in a conspiracy or RICO corrupt enterprise with Mike.

And, that Mike only cheated SOME of the time or that he cheated only when certain commentators were on ther job is not very relevant as to Mike's activity being legal or illegal etc.
he's not saying it's hard proof, he said you shouldn't dismiss the possibility.

that kind of reasonable suspicion is what you'd use to justify, for instance, subpoenaing phone records.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:01 PM   #9334
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/297873267?t=1h52m28s

Watch the girl in the black top either borrow or rip off some green chips from Mike P. after she playfully slaps him in the face. From 1:52:22 to about 1:52:42 is pretty funny. Not everyday you see this happen on a live steam with people watching and nobody says anything. Looks like a home game at Stones Casino.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:07 PM   #9335
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wtfdidido View Post
Kasey spelled her name Casey on one stream, clearly this is evidence that the casino is involved in human trafficking.
Nice.

That about sums up this thread for the past 5 days.
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:11 PM   #9336
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)


I am temporarily locking the thread so we can do clean-up.

In case anyone is interested, we will be moving a bunch of Xenicide posts with stream links and/or chat logs purporting to be of a suspicious or troubling nature, but not directly or obviously related to the cheating allegations. (Earlier today the mods communicated this plan to Xenicide.)

These posts will be moved to a new thread in NVG and we encourage Xenicide to place any new posts along those lines to that new thread. Of course, any new posts containing direct or obvious connections to the cheating allegations should be posted in this "original" thread on Postle cheating allegations.

I don't know how long the clean-up will take since I don't know how far back I will go. Also, I imagine that the majority of the back-and-forth posts of other members arguing with Xenicide (complaining, etc.) will likely be deleted.

I will try to do the best I can, but I guarantee that some people will be unhappy that I moved too many posts while others will be unhappy that I moved too few posts. In addition, it is possible that a few substantive posts will be inadvertently moved or deleted in the process. For all of the above, and for anything else, I apologize in advance.


Last edited by whosnext; 10-24-2019 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:52 PM   #9337
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Okay, clean-up is complete:

1. I went back to October 19 where the "derail" seems to have begun.

2. I moved 156 posts from this thread to a newly created NVG thread entitled "Moved chat logs and discussions from postle thread" ( https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...hread-1755144/ ).

3. I deleted zero posts during the clean-up, so every post still exists in either this thread or the other thread.

4. Sorry the clean-up took so long.

5. Please PM me if you have any questions/complaints about the clean-up (I'd prefer PM's rather than clogging up this thread).

6. Going forward mods are going to keep this thread free from non-specific data dumps of live stream chat logs as they served to derail the thread and to take attention away from the serious cheating allegations which is the focus of this thread.

Thank you.

Last edited by whosnext; 10-25-2019 at 04:06 AM.
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:08 AM   #9338
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Great job!

Thank you!
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:03 AM   #9339
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yeh, good work. I couldn't figure out what that Xenicide was talking about.
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:15 AM   #9340
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
People are forgetting how small scale Stones really was, viewers of the live stream was at times only 33 - 93 lives viewers, before Postle broke as a story total views of the YouTube vids were in their hundreds or around 1000, and viewings are still tiny on twitch, and I remember either seeing a message from Stones in comments, or hearing a presenter, asking viewers who were interested in commentating to contact Stones, so they weren't about having top quality experienced presenters. As amply demonstrated by Bot Lady, and others.

The commentary was at times very amateur, with commentators misreading the board, and drinking, but then as they were amateur and inexperienced it isn't altogether surprising they wouldn't spot what Postle was up to, whereas at least one pro recognised he was being cheated the very first time he played Postle at Stones.

There are some commentators who deflect suspicion from Postle when suspicious comments are made, by saying he is a poker God, similar to JFKs blocking out Veronica's concerns by saying his play was too advanced for her to understand.
This isn't too hard to understand. Watching postle play he always makes the correct play you either believe he's a poker god or he's getting relayed hole card info or cheating in some other blatant fashion. Most people don't think people are cheating that way, so they assume he is in fact a poker god. Though it does deflect suspicion from postle this may not be their intent.

Similarly to when someone seemed to conclude they had proof that a commentator knew Postle could see the hole cards from commentary in one hand (though in a later hand they said Postle should fold, despite actually having the best hand, a sklanskian mistake!), you could assume from watching him play that he plays so well and absurdly in some spots that its AS IF he can see the cards.

That said I think it's at least possible the commentators were deflecting from accusations intentionally, or had knowledge Postle could see the cards, but in much like Meryl Streep: I'm pressing x for doubt.
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:49 AM   #9341
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
@ArtyMcFly

If Taylor used to play Marbles, we could maybe find out really quickly in which streams he was working, because as far as i saw, they always play Marbles in the end.

"Welcome to the stream! I'm Taylor, a 26 year old game enthusiast. My Username comes from my past of being a vocalist for a Hardcore/Deathmetal band named "Every Hand Betrayed"."

Every hand betrayed. Didn't know that. -.-
Commentators would often play on the Stones account though. I don't think that would be reliable.
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Old 10-25-2019, 04:49 AM   #9342
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
Commentators would often play on the Stones account though. I don't think that would be reliable.
Yea, sure, anyway, i will click through Twitch sessions later to figure out when his nickname appears in the chat there.
Their chat is not that busy, shouldn't be a big thing to do.

One more question, do we know who is doing the job behind the scenes when Taylor isn't?
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Old 10-25-2019, 05:25 AM   #9343
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Who hatched this plan? How did it come to fruition? What was the nexus?


...Two guys having a beer after the stream...

Suspect 1: Man, if you could only see what I see you would never lose.

Suspect 2: [Laughs] Maybe you could text it to me.

Suspect 1: I could...but, nah, that would be a total pain and take forever. I might make typos and who knows what. Too easy to get caught.

Suspect 2: Yea, you're right. Just a thought. But what if I could see what you see?

Suspect 1: Hmmm, let me think on that...
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Old 10-25-2019, 05:38 AM   #9344
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by DC2LV View Post
Newsflash: That is the entire underlying foundation of the U.S. judicial system. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, it is better to allow 100 guilty people to go free than to convict one innocent person.

And that is not how our judicial system works. This isn't a Seinfeld episode.

OT but I was reading about the Salem Witch Trials in 1692-1693 and Thomas Maule published in his book: "it were better that one hundred Witches should live, than that one person be put to death for a witch, which is not a Witch". For publishing his book, Maule was imprisoned twelve months before he was tried and found not guilty.
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:49 AM   #9345
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Who hatched this plan? How did it come to fruition? What was the nexus?


...Two guys having a beer after the stream...

Suspect 1: Man, if you could only see what I see you would never lose.

Suspect 2: [Laughs] Maybe you could text it to me.

Suspect 1: I could...but, nah, that would be a total pain and take forever. I might make typos and who knows what. Too easy to get caught.

Suspect 2: Yea, you're right. Just a thought. But what if I could see what you see?

Suspect 1: Hmmm, let me think on that...
I'd expect it was a crime of opportunity. Someone on the production team realized that they would be able to easily get away with feeding someone live data. Then they did it.
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:57 AM   #9346
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
In Britain, the cycling commentators Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen commentated on every one of Lance Armstrong's Tour de France wins, and even said he was the best cyclist of his generation. Don't you think that's suspicious?

Jeez, man. Get some perspective. Some commentators appeared more often that others... because they were the main commentators!
Tbf Uncle Phil was pretty complicit. He famously said he would snap-retire if Lance was found to be doping. Seven years later.....

Personally remain pretty agnostic on the commentators, but it's clear watching the later streams some were highly suspicious of MP (and I don't mean Veronica, who actually took action on it), which makes sense seeing as it had been chatter in Stones for some time and some of the clearly ridiculous plays he was making.

Perhaps a commentator (who, for example, may go way back with Justin, say) may have KNOWN more, but it's impossible from watching the streams (or reading them!) to know whether that was the case or not.
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:15 AM   #9347
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
In Britain, the cycling commentators Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwen commentated on every one of Lance Armstrong's Tour de France wins, and even said he was the best cyclist of his generation. Don't you think that's suspicious?

Jeez, man. Get some perspective. Some commentators appeared more often that others... because they were the main commentators!
Thats a poor comparison. Ol' Lance was peddling along just like all the other cyclists. He appeared the same. It would be a more apt comparison if Lance would suddenly stop peddling yet keep going.

Mike Postle was playing a VPIP that is such a large outlier for a winning player. If Postle was doing this while playing standard but only making a handful of big folds/calls in standard situations, I could get behind the Phil and Paul comparison.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:02 AM   #9348
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

for anyone who thinks the announcers are in on it, take a look at the commentary on some of dnegs god like plays in this episode of high stakes poker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJduAUIN29A

11:15 they comment on his "perfect timing"

19:10 they comment on how "everything is working for Daniel today" and wonder if anyone can beat him

19:45 "when he bluffs everybody goes out, when they have a good hand he has a better hand...."

21:45 just before daniel folds middle pair to one bet they say they can't see him ever calling this spot

etc etc
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:03 AM   #9349
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by washoe View Post
Im not saying the commentators are in on it idk,

But if they where not, they all acted like a cult, or thats the vibe I got.

It was the Mike Postle Cult.

And everyone was worshipping him, add all the memes and the name calling

and then you have a very weeeird show.

Where did he come from if he is so good he must have played different games (not the smaller buy in mtts)

And he would have been more recognized. And not with these lines he took.

The Commentators must have had a strange feeling playing along, or at least

I would think. Imgagine you worship this guy on stream? Ohh hees the best! Ohh yeah he takes some stupid lines, but hes a genious and just press a meme button and worship the guy

some more. (veronicas reaction when she couldnt believe the line he took. that kind of

feeling they should have got)
Let's think about this rationally for a sec. Imagine that Mike wasn't actually cheating, but was actually this amazing at playing poker. Do you really think they would be saying anything different? I don't. I think they're comments are perfectly normal for what I would expect from people watching this without knowing he is cheating.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:03 AM   #9350
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane View Post
Who hatched this plan? How did it come to fruition? What was the nexus?


...Two guys having a beer after the stream...

Suspect 1: Man, if you could only see what I see you would never lose.

Suspect 2: [Laughs] Maybe you could text it to me.

Suspect 1: I could...but, nah, that would be a total pain and take forever. I might make typos and who knows what. Too easy to get caught.

Suspect 2: Yea, you're right. Just a thought. But what if I could see what you see?

Suspect 1: Hmmm, let me think on that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Barrel View Post
I'd expect it was a crime of opportunity. Someone on the production team realized that they would be able to easily get away with feeding someone live data. Then they did it.
I agree 100%. Someone that operates the stream or has a hands on job dealing with it decided that they could make this happen and decided it was worth the risk. How they know Mike or decided he was the guy to pull it off is part of the question. They(the police) really just need to interrogate everyone that has this kind of opportunity and see what they come up with. Talk to the people that created the software and find out what it would take to do it and who all would have that kind of access. Pull all of these people in for questioning. Simply telling them that they just want Mike and will not prosecute anyone that helps them get him may be enough if they know what kind of charges they are facing otherwise. Seems like the best angle IMO.
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