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Old 10-24-2019, 04:27 PM   #9301
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Sure, that might be something worth looking into - do you have any data on this?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZsQ/edit#gid=0

You can look back through my posts to see the number of times each person commentated, I made this weeks ago.
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:33 PM   #9302
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
Jeez, man. Get some perspective. Some commentators appeared more often that others... because they were the main commentators!
But they weren't the main commentators when Mike wasn't in “god” mode. This is why I don't like to debate with people on internet forums. It doesn't matter what I say or show some people have an unchangeable opinion on certain topics and its a waste of time to debate it.
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:38 PM   #9303
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
Im not saying they were all getting some sort of “cut” per say but if they really knew about it and decided to do nothing....well in my eyes that makes them guilty. ... Common dude its undeniable.
This is where your logic falls apart. You have no proof they knew anything. You have no proof they knew something and did nothing about it. So your guilty determination is flawed.

Plus, you actually did claim they were getting a cut- I believe the specific amount of $25k.
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:43 PM   #9304
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZsQ/edit#gid=0

You can look back through my posts to see the number of times each person commentated, I made this weeks ago.
I remember looking at that, but we didn't have many confirmed godmode sessions, when you uploaded it. Now we've got a lot more cheating sessions confirmed, so I can look for correlations. Obviously, Kasey, Chris (Masta C), Justin Kelly, and Scott commentated on a lot of Godmode sessions, since Postle used Godmode on a lot of sessions.
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But they weren't the main commentators when Mike wasn't in “god” mode. This is why I don't like to debate with people on internet forums. It doesn't matter what I say or show some people have an unchangeable opinion on certain topics and its a waste of time to debate it.
Where was your gang of four on (for example) August 10th 2018? None were working, Postle was cheating. Same for Jan 12th 2019. None of your suspects was commentating. Postle was cheating. Indeed, he had one of his biggest winning sessions (over $20k) while your suspects were away.
May 2nd 2019: Same story. None of the usual commentators, but Postle was Godmoding.

If you're looking to avoid people with unchanging opinions, with whom it is a waste of time to debate, I'd recommend avoiding mirrors if I were you. I hate resorting to ad hominems, but your confirmation bias is out of control. You're just ignoring everything (including well-meaning advice) that is counter to your own beliefs.
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:54 PM   #9305
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZsQ/edit#gid=0

You can look back through my posts to see the number of times each person commentated, I made this weeks ago.
Thanks! Sorry if I missed it earlier.

Quote:
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This is why I don't like to debate with people on internet forums. It doesn't matter what I say or show some people have an unchangeable opinion on certain topics and its a waste of time to debate it.
There are people who hold on to their beliefs in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and there are people who hold on to their beliefs because they haven't seen any convincing evidence to the contrary. The key is recognizing which is which; I'd be surprised if Arty was in the former group.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:12 PM   #9306
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The only evidence we have so far from commentary that commentators were in on it was the comment that Mike went back to the card tech booth to look at a hand, which was quickly denied moments later.
Joey opened a YouTube vid with this (#3?)
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #9307
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Thanks! Sorry if I missed it earlier. There are people who hold on to their beliefs in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and there are people who hold on to their beliefs because they haven't seen any convincing evidence to the contrary. The key is recognizing which is which; I'd be surprised if Arty was in the former group.
Arty has been following all of my posts since day 1 so I don't know what to say. I think Arty is a very smart guy and I'm not implying anything less than that. If he doesn't see what I see thats ok and I respect Artys opinion a lot more than most. But I don't really want to debate it if there is 0% chance he is going to take it seriously.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #9308
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

If the commentators are told not to criticize(speak unkindly) of peoples play then they are not going to say of Postle that his play makes no sense and is terrible but it just happens to be perfect in this spot, for instance. If they are not going to say something like that then what is left for them to say about it? And once you praise one of his moves all you can do is praise more and more until, "he's god". The ban on criticism created a culture and that culture, combined with cheating created a religion.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:22 PM   #9309
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
I believe there is enough evidence already to show Mike is a cheat. Posting hand histories etc at this point is a waste of time. If theres a chance multiple people are in on this why should we ever dismiss it? Would you be ok with the possibility of a guilty person walking free?
It's better that 100 guilty men walk free than 1 innocent man be convicted. That's a saying that is at the foundation of our legal system in America. So yes, the *possibility* that they walk is acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
But they weren't the main commentators when Mike wasn't in “god” mode. This is why I don't like to debate with people on internet forums. It doesn't matter what I say or show some people have an unchangeable opinion on certain topics and its a waste of time to debate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZsQ/edit#gid=0

You can look back through my posts to see the number of times each person commentated, I made this weeks ago.
That's nice ... Have we looked at frequencies of any of that?

As in, 90% of the time he's in God mode this person is in the booth, or 80% of the time a certain person is around he's in God mode? There should be some statistical tools to do that.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:22 PM   #9310
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Exactly. I think that they had got so carried away with the memes that they didn’t even think to question anything. It took a relative part time commentator to realise.
Veronica was effectively the little boy in The Emperor’s New Clothes.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:24 PM   #9311
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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It's better that 100 guilty men walk free than 1 innocent man be convicted.
I totally disagree, but that’s an argument for somewhere else.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:33 PM   #9312
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
It's better that 100 guilty men walk free than 1 innocent man be convicted. That's a saying that is at the foundation of our legal system in America. So yes, the *possibility* that they walk is acceptable.





That's nice ... Have we looked at frequencies of any of that?

As in, 90% of the time he's in God mode this person is in the booth, or 80% of the time a certain person is around he's in God mode? There should be some statistical tools to do that.
Finally you post something worth my time. I think I will try to calculate the % frequencies thats actually a decent idea. Although I do disagree with your “foundation of our legal system in America” statement simply because the chances of convicting an innocent person in this Case is next to impossible. If they are truly innocent they have nothing to worry about. Why they are hiding this whole time makes 0 sense to me unless of course they are hiding something. Is Veronica hiding? She worked there for quite some time and I know if I was innocent I definitely wouldn't be hiding because again, there is nothing for them to worry about.

Last edited by Xenicide; 10-24-2019 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:50 PM   #9313
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
I totally disagree, but that’s an argument for somewhere else.
How can you even considering arguing holding a point of view like that? You are willing to place an innocent person in jail for something that person has not done, to catch 100 or 1000 guilty person. The numbers to not matter at all, because the only thing of importance is the one innocent person. I can`t feel anything but disgust with such a statement you just made.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:06 PM   #9314
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PeteBlow View Post
I totally disagree, but that’s an argument for somewhere else.
On the ratio? Sure, that's been debated for a couple hundred years. But the sentiment is a guiding principal in our legal system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
Finally you post something worth my time. I think I will try to calculate the % frequencies thats actually a decent idea. Although I do disagree with your “foundation of our legal system in America” statement simply because the chances of convicting an innocent person in this Case is next to impossible. If they are truly innocent they have nothing to worry about. Why they are hiding this whole time makes 0 sense to me unless of course they are hiding something. Is Veronica hiding? She worked there for quite some time and I know if I was innocent I definitely wouldn't be hiding because again, there is nothing for them to worry about.
Well this is the first thing in a dozen pages that you've posted that's been worthwhile. Everything else has been a misunderstanding of basic human behavior.

The presumption of innocence and the *sentiment* that it's better to miss a guilty conviction than it is to make a wrong conviction IS factually the basis of the legal system in America. That's not a debate. The same with the right to privacy. There are many reasons for people to avoid public scrutiny in situations like this. You can't just assume that people keeping a low profile are guilty of "hiding something". That's not the way this works.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:10 PM   #9315
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8dP8ILQaI
05/09/2018

Mike having a notebook on the rail, he seems to be taking notes
First hand i see him playing and his phone already disappeared from above the
rail and he is looking down during this hand (good for him here)

https://youtu.be/bQ8dP8ILQaI?t=1684

Mike making a call on the river being dead also after a reraise this time,
i can't remember ever seeing this (god mode OFF here).

https://youtu.be/bQ8dP8ILQaI?t=4671

Mike folding best hand on turn.
1:30:04 looking down again - also cards are wrong here AGAIN - Joe has JJ, Mike TT and villain AK
on 274 rainbow flop
MIKE IS SO GOOD - TOO GOOD (comms) - also listen 1:31:00 (comms, Mike makes a couple k's when he has TT and villain has 99
as overpair to the board, EZ for Mike.
JUST FOLDS FLOP TO ONE BET

https://youtu.be/bQ8dP8ILQaI?t=5335

Another Bombpot, Mike flopping set with J2o, AA in the mix too, flop gets checked around
AA bets turn then, Mike and another dude call
On the river the flush comes in, goes check check again and the flush dude bets, Mike also folds to 1/3 bet to see the flush (no GOD mode ON)

https://youtu.be/bQ8dP8ILQaI?t=7390

Mike bluffing on the turn being dead already - 2:36:30 taking a deep look down, seemed he was looking for the cards there
But seeing him bet at 0% is 100% god mode OFF, strange somehow

https://youtu.be/bQ8dP8ILQaI?t=9256

One of the rare moments Mike is getting REKT bluffing on the turn, NH

https://youtu.be/bQ8dP8ILQaI?t=10186

Mike seems to be busy with his phone there doing something else almost
all stream long, less towards the end, but he still makes a couple k's not even caring what happens at the table.
There is hands where is definitly god mode OFF, but he still keeps looking into his crotch during hands also, strange somehow
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:12 PM   #9316
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist View Post
The presumption of innocence and the *sentiment* that it's better to miss a guilty conviction than it is to make a wrong conviction IS factually the basis of the legal system in America. That's not a debate.
I agree with you. I said in this Case its not possible to convict an innocent person its hard enough to convict Mike, anyone who is innocent doesnt have anything to worry about. This isnt a Murder trial.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:27 PM   #9317
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

People are forgetting how small scale Stones really was, viewers of the live stream was at times only 33 - 93 lives viewers, before Postle broke as a story total views of the YouTube vids were in their hundreds or around 1000, and viewings are still tiny on twitch, and I remember either seeing a message from Stones in comments, or hearing a presenter, asking viewers who were interested in commentating to contact Stones, so they weren't about having top quality experienced presenters. As amply demonstrated by Bot Lady, and others.

The commentary was at times very amateur, with commentators misreading the board, and drinking, but then as they were amateur and inexperienced it isn't altogether surprising they wouldn't spot what Postle was up to, whereas at least one pro recognised he was being cheated the very first time he played Postle at Stones.

There are some commentators who deflect suspicion from Postle when suspicious comments are made, by saying he is a poker God, similar to JFKs blocking out Veronica's concerns by saying his play was too advanced for her to understand.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:28 PM   #9318
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDR View Post
How can you even considering arguing holding a point of view like that? You are willing to place an innocent person in jail for something that person has not done, to catch 100 or 1000 guilty person. The numbers to not matter at all, because the only thing of importance is the one innocent person. I can`t feel anything but disgust with such a statement you just made.
Statistically, it’s a decent hit rate IMO.
But, as I said, this is a topic for a completely different thread and a even a different forum.

Last edited by PeteBlow; 10-24-2019 at 06:36 PM. Reason: And that goes for everyone else who wants to wade in
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:37 PM   #9319
Angrist
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
People are forgetting how small scale Stones really was, viewers of the live stream was at times only 33 - 93 lives viewers, before Postle broke as a story total views of the YouTube vids were in their hundreds or around 1000, and viewings are still tiny on twitch, and I remember either seeing a message from Stones in comments, or hearing a presenter, asking viewers who were interested in commentating to contact Stones, so they weren't about having top quality experienced presenters. As amply demonstrated by Bot Lady, and others.

The commentary was at times very amateur, with commentators misreading the board, and drinking, but then as they were amateur and inexperienced it isn't altogether surprising they wouldn't spot what Postle was up to, whereas at least one pro recognised he was being cheated the very first time he played Postle at Stones.

There are some commentators who deflect suspicion from Postle when suspicious comments are made, by saying he is a poker God, similar to JFKs blocking out Veronica's concerns by saying his play was too advanced for her to understand.
Very very much this. We used to have a really epic home game in my town (the reason it's gone is an interesting story). A pool of maybe 50 players, with about 15 really 'regulars' that played 2-3 times a week, late into the night, lots of drinking, food, weed, people getting ****ed up and passing out downstairs for the night, girls showing up (for a hell of a lot less than $25k), epic sports bets, blow ups (no fights), $5k showdowns, $1k red/black side bets, and plenty of inside jokes and stories. Stones Live looks very much like our home game. Both the crazy play on the stream, and the talk in the booth.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:41 PM   #9320
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
There are people who hold on to their beliefs in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and there are people who hold on to their beliefs because they haven't seen any convincing evidence to the contrary. The key is recognizing which is which; I'd be surprised if Arty was in the former group.
FWIW, I suffer from all the same cognitive biases as everyone else and it's a constant battle to overcome them. Early in the thread (and on twitter) I was quite vocal about JFK being Postle's main accomplice, so that's all I focused on at first. I got a horrible feeling in my stomach when certain evidence pointed to him being just negligent/naive, as I felt I'd been a bit too harsh on him, and could have spent my time looking for evidence on other people. Once I'd convinced myself JFK was "innocent" (of knowingly cheating people), I disregarded anything that possibly shows he's up to his neck in it, which might be a mistake on my part.
Similarly, I discounted the whole key fob/headset theory early on, and (perhaps mistakenly) haven't looked for evidence in that regard. For all I know xenicide will find another smoking gun by following his own instincts, so I don't want to totally stifle his research. I'd be happy to support any new findings if they sounded reasonable, but a lot of the stuff on the last few pages just seems crazy to me.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:44 PM   #9321
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Commentary spreadsheet frequencies
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ZsQ/edit#gid=0

God mode "On"(49/80 days 2 people in booth each day)
Kasey:47%
Scott:39%
Justin Kelley:37%
Chris:27%

Tom:8%
Brent:6%
Veronica:6%
The Jake:2%

Kasey/Scott/Justin/Chris total: 87%

Others: 13%

God Mode "off"(31/80 days 2 people in booth each day)

Scott: 26%

JDR: 19%
Bot Lady: 19%
Masta C: 19%
Kasey: 16%
Dermott: 13%
Justin Kelley: 13%
Tom: 10%
Vanessa: 10%
Kieran: 10%
Brent: 6%
Jaman: 6%
Andy: 6%
Adam: 3%
Taylor: 3%
Patrick: 3%
The Cardfather: 3%
The Jake: 3%

Kasey/Scott/Justin/Chris total: 39%
Others: 61%

Last edited by Xenicide; 10-24-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:49 PM   #9322
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That only proves they had bad commentary and few reasonable replacements available.

That’s it.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:56 PM   #9323
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
Just the kind of thing you'd expect from people that were in on it, amirite?


:
Im not saying the commentators are in on it idk,

But if they where not, they all acted like a cult, or thats the vibe I got.

It was the Mike Postle Cult.

And everyone was worshipping him, add all the memes and the name calling

and then you have a very weeeird show.

Where did he come from if he is so good he must have played different games (not the smaller buy in mtts)

And he would have been more recognized. And not with these lines he took.

The Commentators must have had a strange feeling playing along, or at least

I would think. Imgagine you worship this guy on stream? Ohh hees the best! Ohh yeah he takes some stupid lines, but hes a genious and just press a meme button and worship the guy

some more. (veronicas reaction when she couldnt believe the line he took. that kind of

feeling they should have got)

Last edited by washoe; 10-24-2019 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 10-24-2019, 07:09 PM   #9324
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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That only proves they had bad commentary and few reasonable replacements available.

That’s it.
That's actually a large enough difference that it might be statistically significant.

One possibility was that Postle preferred to do God mode when he had commentators who he felt either wouldn't notice it or wouldn't call it out.
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Old 10-24-2019, 07:16 PM   #9325
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
I believe there is enough evidence already to show Mike is a cheat. Posting hand histories etc at this point is a waste of time. If theres a chance multiple people are in on this why should we ever dismiss it? Would you be ok with the possibility of a guilty person walking free?
Newsflash: That is the entire underlying foundation of the U.S. judicial system. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin, it is better to allow 100 guilty people to go free than to convict one innocent person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
If 4 specific commentators are in the booth every time Mike is cheating along with all the shady commentary/chat don't you think thats suspicious? When Mike isn't cheating the range of commentators working in the booth is soooo much wider and its even less days, you have to question why? Why is it that Kasey Scott Chris and Justin Kelley are always working when Mike is cheating. Im not saying they were all getting some sort of “cut” per say but if they really knew about it and decided to do nothing....well in my eyes that makes them guilty. Veronica like I said only commentated a few times for Mike and she knew enough to speak out. Kasey, who by the way knows more about poker than half the people in this thread commentated for mike roughly 30 times.... while he cheated. Common dude its undeniable.
And that is not how our judicial system works. This isn't a Seinfeld episode.
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