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Old 10-19-2019, 09:52 AM   #9051
ArtyMcFly
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by grjr View Post
Going by the advert for labor day and the size of the BB Jackpot I would guess somewhere around Aug 2018. Just a guess though.
Thanks for the hint. That T2cc hand (also featured in Jeff Boski's vid) is from 22nd Aug 2018. I haven't got a direct timestamp yet, but it's in a 5/5 session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOxc4qbQiLo
Originally that session was marked as "unlikely" to be god mode, as on a quick skim thru, I saw Postle got very lucky with a river 2-outer (with 44) to make a boat and win a big pot, but there's also a ridiculous bluff with 32o at some point, and his call down with Q8 vs Harlan's bluff. I think the cheating might not start until at least 2 hours into the session.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:07 AM   #9052
jcorb
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Are players required to scan their hole cards over the antenna at the table? What if a player were to just bypass the scan and the peak room/booth didn't know the whole cards, or do they have a requirement to do so in the terms and agreements?
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:24 AM   #9053
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Just turned on PokerGo to watch some WSOP Europe, and at the featured table they could not use phones, someone on the stream said they were all collected. I think they need to call it the Postle rule.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:27 AM   #9054
inmyrav
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Has anyone asked Mike Postle to have a peaky poo at his phone? I mean that could settle it pretty quick, just ask him to publish a history of messages or w/e there is that might exist could prove it pretty quick one way or the other; or at least exonerate others from being involved I guess. Unless they were boning him in the ear, then maybe the texts don't exist. Okay fine, he can't prove he is innocent since he could have cheated with zero trace and the math proves it mathetmatically. The brave new world, where you can be convicted on math.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:55 AM   #9055
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by inmyrav View Post
Okay fine, he can't prove he is innocent since he could have cheated with zero trace and the math proves it mathetmatically. The brave new world, where you can be convicted on math.
Here's an example of statistics helping to convict someone of crimes (the murders of her children). The conviction was eventually overturned.

https://understandinguncertainty.org/node/545
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:11 PM   #9056
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
It's hard to say in this case since we do not know the exact suits of the 78, and the previous hand started showing mid hand. For scenario #4 to take place, he or someone else would have had to have 88 and accidentally flashed it over the reader after the operator hit the next hand button. I guess it is a possibility that someone could have thrown a single 8 over his reader and it picked it up, but we cannot verify bc the last hand started mid-way.

Yes, there should be logs. I believe someone posted that all data is backed up in a database by PokerGFX.
With the logs, it will be easy for whoever is investigating this to know that he was lying.

I think we can figure out what happened, without logs, given what the PokerGFX guy said about how it works.
There is enough information from that half of a hand they show previously.

So firstly, for any persistency error, one of the early positions would have to open fold pocket 88, which isn't consistent with how any of them play.
We can see from the amount in the pot that none of those guys even limped, they all folded.
But not only that, they would have to push the cards directly over Postles RFID, after the 'Next Hand' button is pressed.

He says in scenario #4 "At the end of a hand, PokerGFX waits until all hole cards have been removed from player antennas before allowing the operator to hit the NEXT HAND button".

We join the action mid-way before the flop, when 4 of the players cards are still over the respective RFID antennas.
So PokerGFX will not allow the 'NEXT HAND' button yet. And no-one on Postle's side of the table has any cards now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
he or someone else would have had to have 88 and accidentally flashed it over the reader after the operator hit the next hand button.

Right .None of the players left have an 8 card. And the 8 on the board is the wrong suit.

So given that what PokerGFX said is correct, then Postle was lying about the 88 hand.
The video proves it.

https://youtu.be/0vaF0kwjQhg?t=1034
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:22 PM   #9057
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://youtu.be/iGaEtUyyUBE?t=14097

Commentators answering a question from chat in the booth.
Pretty interesting answer, listen it guys.

And i thought Mike is the best player in the world.

https://youtu.be/iGaEtUyyUBE?t=14659

Chat was anwering to the question too, i guess that's what Mike confirmed then in the interview.
Why is he playing against this donks there then if he is so "high level"?

https://youtu.be/iGaEtUyyUBE?t=14436

Look at Mike thinking about to call the river. Concentrate on his hard thinking, and his head movement, man, this made me LOL so hard now.

Last edited by JustSome1; 10-19-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:28 PM   #9058
Jake Stanton
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

this would be easy to solve 100% conclusively if the court would issue a warrant for his phone. I've seen enough evidence to convince me already... what is the penalty? in some countries they cut off your hands for theft.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:45 PM   #9059
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://youtu.be/iGaEtUyyUBE?t=16086

Alright, it took some time today, but now i'm actually disgusted again...

It's exactly those kind of hands (4:30:57). Mike of course had the right read again on this poor guy.

Okay, i have to add something more, because now it is actually bothering the **** out of me.
I mean, i can understand if Mike is saying that he is such a great player, one the best in the game, and that
he might have excellent reads on his opponents or whatever, he also might find arguments for to find
a call right here in this spot, i get it, he can, but, and now BUT, if you make those kind of calls on the river
AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN, then, and this is now my question,
why is there not any of these calls that is wrong?

I was really watching a lot of those videos now, not only one or two, it was hours and hours and hours, i enjoyed it also, i have to admit
this fact, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to just NEVER be wrong in those kind of spots and especially if you find such calls there.

And to add even a bit more, i mean, we were seeing these wrong calls also, and that's the thing, but not with his phone down there. He made calls with worse hands, he just made them, because we all have to do that, some more and some less, but not some NOT AT ALL, this doesn't excist in this game, when have to take river decisions like Mike just did.

Last edited by JustSome1; 10-19-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:52 PM   #9060
Jake Stanton
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
https://youtu.be/iGaEtUyyUBE?t=16086

Alright, it took some time today, but now i'm actually disgusted again...

It's exactly those kind of hands (4:30:57). Mike of course had the right read again on this poor guy.
he's fold with AK on K84 flop agaisnt 88 proves your point much better. think i saw that in one of Polks vids. I've called aggressive players with ace high and was right more than once so this isn't clear cut knowledge of hole cards imo. but i do believe the guy is a cheat.

edit: but I've usually made those types of calls on paired boards with no face cards so yes it does look suspicious.
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:26 PM   #9061
Scott7x
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Stanton View Post
this would be easy to solve 100% conclusively if the court would issue a warrant for his phone. I've seen enough evidence to convince me already... what is the penalty? in some countries they cut off your hands for theft.
He probably used an encrypted app to send incriminating messages. That said if an actual legitiimate investigation is done I’m sure they will find a lot.
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:42 PM   #9062
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Now that the cat is out of the bag, Mike and his accomplice(s) have time to cover their tracks, delete or just destroy the phone, the hat, ect..

I have asked this before but WHY doesn't the gaming commission investigate this?
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Old 10-19-2019, 02:30 PM   #9063
JustSome1
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Stanton View Post
he's fold with AK on K84 flop agaisnt 88 proves your point much better. think i saw that in one of Polks vids. I've called aggressive players with ace high and was right more than once so this isn't clear cut knowledge of hole cards imo. but i do believe the guy is a cheat.

edit: but I've usually made those types of calls on paired boards with no face cards so yes it does look suspicious.
You know what, it's not even the call that is disgusting, it's not that hand that is, did you even read what i was adding to the post?

It's the sum of all this, he is not even making a WRONG LAYDOWN once, he is just always right.

This is not about if this is a call or not, it's just not about that...

What is the explanation for that, when he has phone down there and he keeps looking down in the decision process even?
Why is he taking wrong decisions, when his phone is not down there?

https://youtu.be/C_pfxYldsfM?t=15719

I was going through this stream now (06/07/2019 - Postle & Pals it's called - Postle was arriving here really late, 3 hours in the session to the stream with his own pals - no god mode).
He is sitting in seat 5 in not a good position, he is not looking down at his phone till this hand is being played.

Last edited by JustSome1; 10-19-2019 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 10-19-2019, 02:56 PM   #9064
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
I don't know what documents players had to sign before appearing on the stream, but they are sometimes prompted by the dealer (or - in some cases - by Postle, lol) to place their cards directly on the card-sized readers in front of them on the table. (The guy in the peek room can communicate with the dealer via headset, to ask a player to put their cards in the correct position).
Sometimes, the players apparently just forgot this "rule", but I don't know of any player that specifically objected to having their cards read for the stream.
Thank you for the response.

If a big player wanted to protect their bankroll I could see just refusing to scan the cards, especially in a casino overseas, unless one is compelled to do so by a pre-signed document. This does occur from time to time on televised shows, the players cards are blank due to not getting scanned and everyone seemed to be OK with it, just one of those things.

Doug Polk has a new vid up with Veronica Brill that is enlightening, and she was there in the booth, no third party hearsay, about things just not adding up. Specifically, MP's refusal to play in a better game that was not being streamed. They do point out that Stones Casino management has zero incentive to do a full blown formal investigation. Is there a gaming commission angle that would?

She did have some doubts about going public, for all the right reasons. She's pretty, seems smart, gutsy, can play poker. Wonder if she's into old fat guys?
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:02 PM   #9065
becky88
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

once again i can not say with certainty but if i was a poker player that was in those games with mike and saw some fishy things methinks i would go home and study the streams on twitch or youtube. you can't make me believe that all these players who played with him for 14 months while this supposed scam was going on ever decided to do this. i know all the good poker players on this site are always going over hand histories and what better way to do it but with a stream with hole cards of every hand you played. something as i have stated before does not smell right here. i cannot believe you could get 15 poker players to play in a game for 14 months and not figure this out with the availability of replay of every hand. or maybe we have discovered 15 people who just don't care about money.
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:04 PM   #9066
ICuRaRook
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

In this video, I commentate while Mike Postle attempts a few interesting bluffs

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Old 10-19-2019, 03:41 PM   #9067
JustSome1
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVmhkrHe_Q&t=3225s

For those who wanna take a laugh, it's not about Mike this time. 😂😂
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:46 PM   #9068
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by becky88 View Post
once again i can not say with certainty but if i was a poker player that was in those games with mike and saw some fishy things methinks i would go home and study the streams on twitch or youtube. you can't make me believe that all these players who played with him for 14 months while this supposed scam was going on ever decided to do this. i know all the good poker players on this site are always going over hand histories and what better way to do it but with a stream with hole cards of every hand you played. something as i have stated before does not smell right here. i cannot believe you could get 15 poker players to play in a game for 14 months and not figure this out with the availability of replay of every hand. or maybe we have discovered 15 people who just don't care about money.
Thank you for clarifying that, at least somebody can see whats going on.
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:52 PM   #9069
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
he also might find arguments for to find
a call right here in this spot, i get it, he can, but, and now BUT, if you make those kind of calls on the river AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN, then, and this is now my question, why is there not any of these calls that is wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
It's the sum of all this, he is not even making a WRONG LAYDOWN once, he is just always right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
What is the explanation for that, when he has phone down there and he keeps looking down in the decision process even? Why is he taking wrong decisions, when his phone is not down there?
CONGRATULATIONS! You have just summarized 9000+ posts in this thread.

.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:36 PM   #9070
theskillzdatklls
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by garetjaxor View Post
Just turned on PokerGo to watch some WSOP Europe, and at the featured table they could not use phones, someone on the stream said they were all collected. I think they need to call it the Postle rule.
+1
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:14 PM   #9071
Shark1980
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Matt Francis: WSOP Dealer and part of StonesLive Production team from day 1.
Justin Kelly: @FatTrain - Commentator
Jenna White: Game Host
Lance Hudspeth: Stones Live Executive Producer. Dealt WSOP ME. Joined Stones in 2016. Has Bachelor's in computer Science, Army Vet.
Rene Portugal: @Renemportugal - Stones Live Technician
Scott Moskowitz: @TheHopGrenade - Stones Live Commentator
Taylor Smith: Broadcaster/Commentator/Dealer (weird that it doesn't say he's tech)
Tom Walch: @ThePlutar - Stones Live Commentator
Enrique Hernandez: Stones Live Technician
Michelle Francis: Stones Live Technician, also an accountant for Department of Pesticide Regulation
Chris Glasgow: @MastaC707 - Stones Live Commentator
Justin Krotchitis: @JFKStonesTD - Stones Tournament Director & Stones Live Production Manager
Kasey Mills: @PokerMommAA - Stones Live Commentator
Kenny Jones: Stones Live Technician
.

Seriously though, thats a lot of people on the payroll.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:16 PM   #9072
wiiziwiig
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by becky88 View Post
once again i can not say with certainty but if i was a poker player that was in those games with mike and saw some fishy things methinks i would go home and study the streams on twitch or youtube. you can't make me believe that all these players who played with him for 14 months while this supposed scam was going on ever decided to do this. i know all the good poker players on this site are always going over hand histories and what better way to do it but with a stream with hole cards of every hand you played. something as i have stated before does not smell right here. i cannot believe you could get 15 poker players to play in a game for 14 months and not figure this out with the availability of replay of every hand. or maybe we have discovered 15 people who just don't care about money.
I am pretty sure there were regs that suspected him of cheating, as Veronica mentions this when she first approached JFK about Postle. Several pros have played with Postle and weren't able to detect it, granted they've mostly only played against him once or twice and he was probably more careful around them. Matt Berkey, Christian Soto, Jonathan Little, Bart Hanson, Jeff Boski, Jaman Burton, Chris Moneymaker and more have all played with Postle and didn't detect anything. I am sure they would have noticed if they had more sessions with him or if he hadn't made a strong effort to conceal his cheating in pots against them, which I am sure he did. (Moneymaker is an outlier but you could be blinded to someone's cheating when you are a close friend)

For a closer look as to why some regs never noticed, check out this podcast with Jaman Burton and Joey, they go into this in detail. Also, Jaman mentions he brings a friend who knew Postle was cheating after one session. My guess is that Postle probably didn't hide his cheating bc Jaman's friend wasn't a well known pro, so it was easier for him to detect.

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Old 10-19-2019, 05:18 PM   #9073
Bobo Fett
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Shark1980 View Post
I just want to give big props out to all those working hard on this issue.
Oh, very well played.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:51 PM   #9074
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
You need to understand what its like to know whats going on but nobody will believe you
I would add this is especially fraught with respect to allegations of cheating in poker, because let's be honest here, there are tons of false allegations, which makes a lot of players dismissive of this sort of talk. How many "online poker RIGGED" threads have you seen over the years? How many players don't realize how easily it is to have even prolonged runbad and assume they are being robbed.

So anyone who ever lobs a cheating allegation is behind the 8 ball from the very beginning. You get no support, people dismiss you, people assume you are just a sore loser.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:09 PM   #9075
barney big nuts
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVmhkrHe_Q&t=3225s

For those who wanna take a laugh, it's not about Mike this time. 😂😂
what was so funny about some guy raising top two and getting a fold?
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