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Old 10-18-2019, 01:05 AM   #8951
whosnext
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)


rallydurham,

You were recently temp-banned for posting really terrible stuff in this thread. In fact, your posts were so bad that you were told not to post any more in this thread.

Nevertheless, tonight you double-down on your "Cheating is Okay" viewpoint. I will not delete these latest posts in case some future historian one day wants to read your complete body of work in this thread comprising some of the worst posts in this long and winding thread.

You are now permanently banned from this thread. I even broke out the ostentatious green font so you wouldn't miss it. I don't want to give you another temp-ban since you seem to like to frequent 2+2. But if you post again in this thread you will receive a very lengthy temp-ban from all 2+2 forums.


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Old 10-18-2019, 01:14 AM   #8952
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by blankoblanco View Post
Is this guy a confirmed troll yet? I'm not up to date on the whole thread. There's a lot to go through.

What's funny is that, while the belief that Postle only "may have cheated" is clueless enough, the part that makes me think he's certainly trolling is when he said Mike Postle brought up a lot of good points in the Matusow interview

Right? That's enough to ban the guy, if you ask me.
Wait, just who in the world are you? I've been posting here since before it was a message board. I've been around since the rec poker list serv in the early 2000's buddy

I dropped out of college in 2003 to play professionally. So maybe I know a thing or two about the world out there.

This attitude by the current crop of dusters is not a good look. You're just chasing away the fish. You caught a guy cheating? So what? You're legitimately telling people on the fence about playing poker to avoid the game.

When you should be convincing people to play instead
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:16 AM   #8953
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by whosnext View Post

rallydurham,

You were recently temp-banned for posting really terrible stuff in this thread. In fact, your posts were so bad that you were told not to post any more in this thread.

Nevertheless, tonight you double-down on your "Cheating is Okay" viewpoint. I will not delete these latest posts in case some future historian one day wants to read your complete body of work in this thread comprising some of the worst posts in this long and winding thread.

You are now permanently banned from this thread. I even broke out the ostentatious green font so you wouldn't miss it. I don't want to give you another temp-ban since you seem to like to frequent 2+2. But if you post again in this thread you will receive a very lengthy temp-ban from all 2+2 forums.


Who in the hell do you think you are? You dont tell people what to post. This isnt Soviet Russia buddy
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:21 AM   #8954
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Who in the hell do you think you are? You dont tell people what to post. This isnt Soviet Russia buddy
No; you’d be dead in Soviet Russia.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:24 AM   #8955
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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No; you’d be dead in Soviet Russia.
Ehh, he'd be sent to the Gulag with no sardine.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:38 AM   #8956
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Who in the hell do you think you are? You dont tell people what to post. This isnt Soviet Russia buddy
he gone
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:40 AM   #8957
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by whosnext View Post
he gone
🤣🤣🤣
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:05 AM   #8958
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by R*R View Post
Does anyone recall which date this 10 2 clubs hand was played?

It is from a Jeff Boski video.

https://youtu.be/DdNbgiHZEfg?t=256
Going by the advert for labor day and the size of the BB Jackpot I would guess somewhere around Aug 2018. Just a guess though.
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:21 AM   #8959
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Andrew Milner, the creator of PokerGFX, was nice enough to respond and shed light on the possible scenarios where cards may be displayed incorrectly and has given permission to post it here.

Quote:
There are 4 potential scenarios where cards could have been displayed incorrectly (the 4th relates to cards persisting across 2 hands).

1. Card is registered incorrectly, in which case that card would always show as the wrong card.

2. Card is pitched over another player's antenna first, in which case that card would be associated with the first player's antenna, and the second player would show as having no cards at all. This is the scenario demonstrated by Matt Berkey, and he's essentially correct however in late December 2018 code was added to PokerGFX that requires a card to be present on a player antenna for a minimum period of time before it's detected (but only for players seated to the immediate left and right of the dealer, as these are the positions where cards commonly pitch over the top of multiple antennas), effectively eliminating this as a source of error.

3. Antenna cables coiled together can cause a card to be read on both the correct antenna AND another seemingly random antenna virtually simultaneously. Depending on the nature of the misread this can be difficult or impossible to detect simply by watching the stream. It might manifest as one or more cards transposed between players, or one or more cards not displaying at all. However, as the card is detected on multiple antennas this condition is easy to detect and PokerGFX will display a warning to the operator if it happens. When a table has this problem it tends to occur frequently (ie every hand) so there's a very low probability the operator won't know it's happening. This scenario is resolved easily and permanently by re-routing the cables in the table so it's typically rectified very quickly.

4. At the end of a hand, PokerGFX waits until all hole cards have been removed from player antennas before allowing the operator to hit the NEXT HAND button. This is specifically designed to avoid the scenario where a player's cards could be re-read by an antenna and treated as part of the next hand where the operator hits the NEXT HAND button early before cards have been gathered in. Occasionally though you do get the scenario where hole cards are off the antenna, the operator hits NEXT HAND, then the cards are moved back over the antenna for whatever reason on their way back to the dealer. Cards are locked after they're first read and the system will ignore any other cards subsequently read on a player's antenna for the duration of the hand, hence this scenario where occasionally cards can persist between hands.

Scenario #3 wouldn't apply to the infamous 86o hand. If you watch the whole hand you can see that every other player's cards are accounted for. None of them are 8s or 9s, so even if there was a transposition error there's no way 8s or 9s could have been on the table. In the previous hand again all cards are accounted for and while there's a 9s, there's no 8s dealt so a combination of scenarios #3 and #4 isn't possible either.
So it would appear scenario #3 would not occur as often as I originally thought, unless Stone's Live was completely negligent, as it would appear the coils would need to be fixed in order to continue. Also, scenario #4 makes perfect sense and would encompass why prev hand persists to next hand. Maybe when someone else at the table has someone else's prev hand, i.e. KcQc, it is because they looked at someones cards after the hand was over.

I also asked about the 9h4d hand and whether it was most likely scenario #4 with the prev hand possibly being off stream and he responded "It's difficult to be definitive with this hand as the previous one isn't available, but yes, scenario #4 seems most likely."
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:23 AM   #8960
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Actually after looking at more hands played by Mike I'm starting to think he is just really good and also just ran hot. No cheating going on IMO
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:25 AM   #8961
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by barney big nuts View Post
Actually after looking at more hands played by Mike I'm starting to think he is just really good and also just ran hot. No cheating going on IMO
Thanks for your input.
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:28 AM   #8962
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by grjr View Post
Going by the advert for labor day and the size of the BB Jackpot I would guess somewhere around Aug 2018. Just a guess though.
Good guess. Found it in August as a result of your guess. Thank you!
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:40 AM   #8963
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Independent on the statistics i have a question for you all, and i hope someone else will be able to take the time to overlook the hands in the following stream i was watching now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKa83uP7m_Q
06/08/2018

The last two days i've been going through streams that were not deeply investigated yet. There were some where Mike wasn't in a god mod at all and in some he seemed to look down at his phone only once in a while during hands.
Especially this one here was giving me problems how to rate his cheating. I totally think that was cheating with his phone knowing his opponents hands somehow, but for me it also seems like that, that he is running insanely good in some streams as well or also winning a good amount because he is simply winning the hands (not by any doubtable plays or whatever).

https://youtu.be/ZKa83uP7m_Q?t=2369

For example this hand from the stream above, in which he wins a huge amount, even looking down deep down into his crotch. But when you look at the hand seperately, it would have been playin out the same way, knowing the opponents cards or not knowing them.

What i, only for myself, wanted to find out, if i can find some new cheat, strange behaviour, strange hands, obviously "wrong plays", whatever, things like that, that's how i was looking at those streams. And since i was also looking over some streams without godmode, i was trying to compare his play and behaviour at the table with those streams i was watching after then.

Btw. Mike got owned here hardly by Vanessa Kade as well on the river:
https://youtu.be/ZKa83uP7m_Q?t=12743
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:57 AM   #8964
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by R*R View Post
Thanks for your input.
NP bud lmk if you want my opinons on anything else
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:57 AM   #8965
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Has anyone checked if Mike’s opponents were eating Oreo’s? Could explain everything.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:23 AM   #8966
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGaM1-HeXMI
24/09/2018

In this session Mike is in seat 9 and you can have a good look at him looking down a lot.
God mode is defenitly on here.

Any explanations for this hand?

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6557

This happened the hand right before:

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6231
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:41 AM   #8967
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Andrew Milner, the creator of PokerGFX, was nice enough to respond and shed light on the possible scenarios where cards may be displayed incorrectly and has given permission to post it here.
Thanks. Good info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Also, scenario #4 makes perfect sense and would encompass why prev hand persists to next hand. Maybe when someone else at the table has someone else's prev hand, i.e. KcQc, it is because they looked at someones cards after the hand was over.
Or as a player threw in his/her cards at the end of the hand, they landed on or passed over someone else's antenna. I could especially see them landing on or passing over the antenna of a player next to the dealer (especially before the December 2018 software change).

Going forward, PokerGFX should instruct operators not to hit the NEXT HAND button until the dealer pulls all the cards in front of him.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:59 AM   #8968
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGaM1-HeXMI
24/09/2018

In this session Mike is in seat 9 and you can have a good look at him looking down a lot.
God mode is defenitly on here.

Any explanations for this hand?

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6557

This happened the hand right before:

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6231
Alright, it's just another missread hands again here also. You can see here in the upper right corner the actual hand before:

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6515
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:52 AM   #8969
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This is all somewhat interesting but trying to make sense of this gibberish is somewhat of a chore.

One of Doug Polk's recent videos explained it best to a layman like me. The booth can't see the cards are wrong in real time.

When the guy in the booth says 'cardreader error!' and MP's opponent has the nut straight instead of 9 high that pretty much gives the whole scam away. As Doug points out, RFID technology doesn't work that way.
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:58 AM   #8970
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
Good job. With respect to damages, I'll just add that it sounds like they want them divided proportionally, see complaint at 25, 31, 32, among the plaintiffs for each minute they spent playing on the stream ("pari passu").

Agree this will take a long time to litigate, even longer if criminal charges are filed in the meantime which could delay/stay the civil suit.

What was the hand you lost against him? Was it pre- or post-CTO?
Thanks Dumbos. I think the pari passu language only applies to the punitive damages they are seeking (would have to look back to confirm 100%). Before that (and for other of the claims that don't give rise to punitive damages) they are just trying to recover damages "in an amount equal to the damages suffered by each Plaintiff."

My hand was all-in pre with his AA against my AKcc. A cooler and even against a regular player I should go broke, but the way he played it was suspicious to me even at the time. I'll likely cover it in a future video.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:01 AM   #8971
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

After thinking about it for some time I realize I may have been too quick to jump to conclusions on "proving" Mikes guilt with just a small sample of 174 hands. I do believe this is the type of data that can actually prove Mikes cheating tho and heres why.
If we were to record each and every hand in streams that shows signs of Mike cheating. Not only could we prove that Mike is cheating based off his w/r and std dev alone, but we could then do the same thing for the sessions that he is not cheating and compare the two std deviations and w/r for the most damning evidence of all. To be honest tho, going through each and every hand takes a ton of work and took me about 12hrs+ just to do the two sessions I posted so here is my suggestion.
We get together a group of as many people as possible each with their own session assigned from the spreadsheet. We could have the data recorded in a mere day or two. Anyone who is down to help please message me privately. I dont see my self attempting this on my own.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:03 AM   #8972
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGaM1-HeXMI
24/09/2018

In this session Mike is in seat 9 and you can have a good look at him looking down a lot.
God mode is defenitly on here.

Any explanations for this hand?

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6557

This happened the hand right before:

https://youtu.be/DGaM1-HeXMI?t=6231
Haven't watched that stream yet but up to the end up the 4th stream - believe that's the 5th from when God Mode started.

From watching the first 4, he is in and out of God mode throughout them. There are periods of 30 minutes to an hour sometimes where he doesn't look down, has his phone on the table, or is eating. When the player sitting next to him is in the hand and turned towards him as another example, he's not nearly as bold in attempting to look down.

Also many hands, he has an easy flop decision and just folds. Or he flops a big hand and his decisions are relatively easy.

If I had to guess, something like 30-40% of hands he plays that see a flop without a trivial flop decision end up in God mode. Suspect this number will steadily rise as he gets more efficient and gains confidence.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #8973
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
After thinking about it for some time I realize I may have been too quick to jump to conclusions on "proving" Mikes guilt with just a small sample of 174 hands. I do believe this is the type of data that can actually prove Mikes cheating tho and heres why.
If we were to record each and every hand in streams that shows signs of Mike cheating. Not only could we prove that Mike is cheating based off his w/r and std dev alone, but we could then do the same thing for the sessions that he is not cheating and compare the two std deviations and w/r for the most damning evidence of all. To be honest tho, going through each and every hand takes a ton of work and took me about 12hrs+ just to do the two sessions I posted so here is my suggestion.
We get together a group of as many people as possible each with their own session assigned from the spreadsheet. We could have the data recorded in a mere day or two. Anyone who is down to help please message me privately. I dont see my self attempting this on my own.
Again, this isn't how statistics works. Even if you had accurate statistics for the mean and the variance of winrates, which you don't and never will, you're only proving that the mean and variance are higher for Mike than the values you selected. In other words, all you're proving is something that the Postle Jesus memes already told you - Mike wins more than other people. You would similarly conclude that Usain Bolt is cheating at p < 0.001 if you compared the mean and standard deviation of his last fifty 100M runs to the times recorded by a high school track team.

The guy is VPIPing 60%+ - even if he wasn't cheating, that ipso facto introduces the possibility of winning more money than a legitimate pro who only VPIP's 15%. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that Bayesian inference could connect the dots between his winrate and cheating, but that would require you to know both the statistics of his winrate and the prevalence of cheating. But do you know what Bayesian inference can be used for? His VPIP. Want to know why? Because we know that the mean and the variance of folding is zero.

There probably is a useful, but complex, statistical approach that can be used here. But this isn't it. You're wasting your time.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:03 AM   #8974
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zizek View Post
Again, this isn't how statistics works. Even if you had accurate statistics for the mean and the variance of winrates, which you don't and never will, you're only proving that the mean and variance are higher for Mike than the values you selected. In other words, all you're proving is something that the Postle Jesus memes already told you - Mike wins more than other people. You would similarly conclude that Usain Bolt is cheating at p < 0.001 if you compared the mean and standard deviation of his last fifty 100M runs to the times recorded by a high school track team.

The guy is VPIPing 60%+ - even if he wasn't cheating, that ipso facto introduces the possibility of winning more money than a legitimate pro who only VPIP's 15%. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that Bayesian inference could connect the dots between his winrate and cheating, but that would require you to know both the statistics of his winrate and the prevalence of cheating. But do you know what Bayesian inference can be used for? His VPIP. Want to know why? Because we know that the mean and the variance of folding is zero.

There probably is a useful, but complex, statistical approach that can be used here. But this isn't it. You're wasting your time.
Crowd sourcing the footage and following some consistent format to get more accurate data seems like a logical step. If you had a lot of people doing this it could conceivably get done very quickly, ideally they all followed the same format and have different people review same sessions just to double/triple check the work. In order to roughly calculate winrate, look at meaningful statistics, and make a compelling case its important that all the footage is converted to data//hand histories and is not only double checked but triple checked.


There are basically hundreds of hours of mike postle playing on stones live stream. if someone can get the ball rolling to convert all the streams to hand histories, i.e.... showing every hand history on the stones live stream where postle is in the game (including hands he is not vpip). AFAIK, no one has done this, but hopefully someone can get the ball rolling. Ideally everyone can download all stones live stream hands and import them into your holdem manager/poker tracker and see first hand how obvious that postle is cheating by just looking at his river stats not including all the crotch staring and brother labeling him a scammer and his connection to rfid tech and him choking on his words in matusow interview trying to hide his tech background or him deleting his linkedin. The lawyer who is representing postle is apparently very good, so its important the prosecution goes a step beyond whats in this thread currently to make a compelling case.


When you are talking about a 30 million dollar lawsuit, the cost of paying members of the community to do this is quite minuscule in the grand scheme.

Last edited by ICrushDreams; 10-18-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #8975
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
https://youtu.be/PX5ccjVEapY?t=164

Yes exactly, the flop cards havn't even been dealt from the deck yet, and Russell has a 4 of diamonds.
Then the flop is dealt out from the deck and there is the 4 of diamonds.

I'm not sure what he means by 'the software prevents the same card displaying twice', when there are so many ways in which it can?
The 4d isn't displaying twice though. It is displayed once by RFID. Then it shows up on the flop. By "displaying twice" he means as players' hole cards. This error is explained by being a card from the previous hand most likely.
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