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Old 10-15-2019, 11:18 PM   #8676
wiiziwiig
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
1. I have no idea if there is an active investigation, as I would define it.

2. I have no idea if search warrants have been served.

3. My suspicion is that this is a low priority case for prosecutors and law enforcement.

4. I think poker players should be outraged if (3) is true.

5. If (3) is not true, then search warrants have already been served, as there is OBVIOUSLY probable cause and any prosecutor or cop who says there isn't is lying.
I heard the DOJ was investigating. Is it possible they aren't taking it seriously?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:20 PM   #8677
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but watching Joey's fab vid of Alisha laughing at Postle after winning an all in against him, I was surprised to see the lawyer Mac VerStandig, who is in charge of the legal case against Postle, is playing in the game.

He is cunningly concealed as "Lawyer Mac" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7QrK6wYz0w

Last edited by Jay Why; 10-15-2019 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:21 PM   #8678
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
I heard the DOJ was investigating. Is it possible they aren't taking it seriously?
Very.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:22 PM   #8679
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Very.
Damn
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:22 PM   #8680
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Someone called Stones and the shift manager said that the 'DOJ' was investigating.

The call was somewhat of a prank. It was a guy that was pretending he participated in the livestream and wanted to know what was going on. The manager may have told the truth, been confused, or lied. But he definitely said the DOJ was investigating.

Given that this story has been picked up by national media, I'd be a bit surprised if some agency wasn't investigating.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:24 PM   #8681
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
Whether or not you or I think they have enough evidence really isn't relevant: most cops I know don't delicate their decision making prerogative to people on the Internet. That said; maybe a judge has already "rubber stamped" a search warrant: point being; law enforcement aren't obligated to announce each and every instance of an investigation. You and I may want to know what they are doing, that doesn't necessarily mean they have to tell us what they are doing: silence from law enforcement doesn't necessarily mean they aren't doing anything.


Try explaining this to dream crusher
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:28 PM   #8682
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
This thread is so over the top its absolutely ridiculous.



People are throwing around words like jury, evidence, motion, etc that they barely understand.



The chances of this even reaching a criminal trial are near zero and the chances of a conviction are zero.



Civil suits look like hail Mary's. Congrats at finding a bus stop lawyer to take the case. But if your lawyer doesnt have $15 to park his car, what are the chances he even shows up for court?



I've been on this website nearly 20 years. Kids these days need a huge wake up call. They dont live in the real world.



That money was stolen clean and square. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and as soon as mike cashed those chips they became his.


Aren’t you the same asshat who was lecturing ChicagoJoey itt for his behavior and professionalism in his stream b/c you failed to get famous doing jackass type things 15 years ago?!?

Go sit in the corner.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:40 PM   #8683
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Thats rediculous. I added the time stamp below. He folds 10 7 on a 9 10 7 7 A board to a single river bet and of course his opponent has 10 10.

Better question how does mike not raise the turn here turning the 2nd nuts. Just flats after a couple of flats. REDICULOUS

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=12472s
No, he folds the TURN to $100. Look at his chip stack on the turn while he thinks about calling the $100, then look on the river. It's the same exact stack.

Turn - with a full house facing a $100 bet:



River - he has already folded and he is shown on video flipping the dealer button in the air. He does not have cards after the turn.

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Old 10-15-2019, 11:44 PM   #8684
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by DHPoker View Post
This is what I was thinking. Is there even a criminal act here? What is the law that covers watching a live stream you shouldn't be watching? Is it implicitly stated that players shouldn't be watching it live if they find a way to do so?

Sure it's unethical, deceptive, sneaky...whatever you want to call it....but is it criminal?
Exactly. Winning money isnt criminal. He won the money clean and square.

This thread is a bunch of haters who didnt think of bone conducting headphones first.

Most of the laws you are citing would only matter if the casino was cheated by a player or if a player was cheated by a casino.

All of these examples are a player cheating another player fair and square. To prove anything a guilty player would have to turn against the house. Or the house admit they were working with and conspiring against the player.

That's never going to happen now that joey, veronica, etc brought about all this mass speculation before they had any viable proof.

That's why you're seeing industry veterans apart from like matusow disassociate with this story immediately. It's all speculative. And ultimately no one wants their professional reputation, future endorsements, etc ruined by this "here today, gone tomorrow" headline.

My god lebron James is willing to ignore people getting murdered in China by political regimes to sell a few more socks before he retires and dies. And hes already a billionaire.

What do you think destitute poker pros, lifelong state gaming commissions, local legislatures, dealers, degens, and bar managers are talking about right now? Is this an existential crisis? No. This is a blip on the radar for them. A rough week at worst.

We know from hundreds of years of experience anyone who was gonna do anything would have already done it.

This story is over. Props to mike. He made more in 16 months than 99.9% Of professional poker players ever well. He found an edge and he took it. Good for him.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:48 PM   #8685
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
The turn call is absolutely 100% standard, raising would be bad. He has the third nuts, by the way. He's beat by TT and 99. It's like a 7 way turn lol. In PLO ranges converge extremely quickly once a bet and a raise goes in, or a bet goes in multiway. Raising turn literally folds out everything he beats and gets called by everything he's losing to or chopping with, pretty much
He folded the turn to the single $100 bet, rewatch the video and look at his stack at 03:27:58 and 03:28:10, it's the exact same. I posted the screencaps above.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:51 PM   #8686
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

That’s a bit of stretch to say he “found an edge” and props to him. He found a way to cheat at a game he was playing.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:51 PM   #8687
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
Exactly. Winning money isnt criminal. He won the money clean and square.

This thread is a bunch of haters who didnt think of bone conducting headphones first.

Most of the laws you are citing would only matter if the casino was cheated by a player or if a player was cheated by a casino.

All of these examples are a player cheating another player fair and square. To prove anything a guilty player would have to turn against the house. Or the house admit they were working with and conspiring against the player.

That's never going to happen now that joey, veronica, etc brought about all this mass speculation before they had any viable proof.

That's why you're seeing industry veterans apart from like matusow disassociate with this story immediately. It's all speculative. And ultimately no one wants their professional reputation, future endorsements, etc ruined by this "here today, gone tomorrow" headline.

My god lebron James is willing to ignore people getting murdered in China by political regimes to sell a few more socks before he retires and dies. And hes already a billionaire.

What do you think destitute poker pros, lifelong state gaming commissions, local legislatures, dealers, degens, and bar managers are talking about right now? Is this an existential crisis? No. This is a blip on the radar for them. A rough week at worst.

We know from hundreds of years of experience anyone who was gonna do anything would have already done it.

This story is over. Props to mike. He made more in 16 months than 99.9% Of professional poker players ever well. He found an edge and he took it. Good for him.
Penal Code Section 332:


(a) Every person who by the game of “three card monte,” so-called, or any other game, device, sleight of hand, pretensions to fortune telling, trick, or other means whatever, by use of cards or other implements or instruments, or while betting on sides or hands of any play or game, fraudulently obtains from another person money or property of any description, shall be punished as in the case of larceny of property of like value for the first offense, except that the fine may not exceed more than five thousand dollars ($5,000). A second offense of this section is punishable, as in the case of larceny, except that the fine shall not exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or both imprisonment and fine.

(b) For the purposes of this section, “fraudulently obtains” includes, but is not limited to, cheating, including, for example, gaining an unfair advantage for any player in any game through a technique or device not sanctioned by the rules of the game.

(c) For the purposes of establishing the value of property under this section, poker chips, tokens, or markers have the monetary value assigned to them by the players in any game.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:59 PM   #8688
Jay Why
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Bammfu any response to the cheating allegations?
JFK @Bammfu See my tweet @JFKPokerTD
RealMenWorshipZeus heard a little about that on Twitter, what're the allegations?
Watbri hey jfk
RealMenWorshipZeus ah ok, thanks jfk
Bammfu Your a standup dude @JFK . I appreciate you not pretending this is out there. Why would veronica believe the results of your investigation?
Bammfu not believe*
JFK @Bammfu I can't speak for Veronica
JFK I am shocked at the whole thing though
Bammfu thats fair..its just curious being shes on the stone team
Bammfu you thinking about maybe taking another look?
Bammfu seems some pretty credible people thinking something mightve been missed
JFK
@Bammfu I am eager to hear from those people and have readily investigated everything called to my attention. I will continue to do so. If the stream is compromised, I want to know.

Bammfu@JFK your the man and i look forward to seeing your popularity explode in the days to come. Your interview is going to be yugggge.

BammfuKeep up the good work ..your going to the example of how to handle cheating allegations on a stream

Matthew RosenthalWhat evidence do you have Bammfu or are you just speculating?

Matthew RosenthalIf you are speculating that is highly inappropriate.
JFK
@Bammfu We made some changes to tighten up security protocols after the accusation. Cell phones were one decisions that we decided to implement. Timing was not odd, it was a result of the complaint
JFK
@Teddy Penderazdoun please email evidence jkuraitis@StonsLivePoker.net
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:01 AM   #8689
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuklearWinter View Post
No, he folds the TURN to $100. Look at his chip stack on the turn while he thinks about calling the $100, then look on the river. It's the same exact stack.

Turn - with a full house facing a $100 bet:



River - he has already folded and he is shown on video flipping the dealer button in the air. He does not have cards after the turn.

I think you're right. And if you are right why does the graphics have him calling $100 and the camera moving off him not showing the actual fold? Co-conspirator helping cover?
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:02 AM   #8690
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
.....He found an edge and he took it. Good for him.
Congrats. That may be the single dumbest thing said in the entire thread. An edge?!?!? He cheated, wtf is wrong with you?

He is lucky he cheated congenial types. I'd have sent him to the hospital if he did that **** to me.

Penal Code is clear, it's a crime. Math says the stats are as close to impossible as it gets.

I have my doubts that this ever goes criminal. A civil case is a slam dunk and will never see a courtroom.

Ironic that you mention some people have no idea of various terminology and their definitions.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:02 AM   #8691
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
Exactly. Winning money isnt criminal. He won the money clean and square.

This thread is a bunch of haters who didnt think of bone conducting headphones first.

Most of the laws you are citing would only matter if the casino was cheated by a player or if a player was cheated by a casino.

All of these examples are a player cheating another player fair and square. To prove anything a guilty player would have to turn against the house. Or the house admit they were working with and conspiring against the player.

That's never going to happen now that joey, veronica, etc brought about all this mass speculation before they had any viable proof.

That's why you're seeing industry veterans apart from like matusow disassociate with this story immediately. It's all speculative. And ultimately no one wants their professional reputation, future endorsements, etc ruined by this "here today, gone tomorrow" headline.

My god lebron James is willing to ignore people getting murdered in China by political regimes to sell a few more socks before he retires and dies. And hes already a billionaire.

What do you think destitute poker pros, lifelong state gaming commissions, local legislatures, dealers, degens, and bar managers are talking about right now? Is this an existential crisis? No. This is a blip on the radar for them. A rough week at worst.

We know from hundreds of years of experience anyone who was gonna do anything would have already done it.

This story is over. Props to mike. He made more in 16 months than 99.9% Of professional poker players ever well. He found an edge and he took it. Good for him.
smoke less meth.

oh thank **** hes banned. how do these people even access the internet?
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:21 AM   #8692
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Hahaha @ "he found an edge and took it"
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:43 AM   #8693
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Interesting poker theory of how to play if you could see everyone's cards. If you knew what he was doing, you could just snap call Postle's ridiculous river overbets as long as you didn't have a big hand.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:53 AM   #8694
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuklearWinter View Post
No, he folds the TURN to $100. Look at his chip stack on the turn while he thinks about calling the $100, then look on the river. It's the same exact stack.

Turn - with a full house facing a $100 bet:



River - he has already folded and he is shown on video flipping the dealer button in the air. He does not have cards after the turn.


Wow, this clip is so sketchy! It skips a bunch action right when Postle was about to make a decision. Definitely folded turn with a boat. Graphics/producer covering up AGAIN for Mike playing too obvious. F these guys. I hope they get the book thrown at them.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:54 AM   #8695
seat
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
This thread is so over the top its absolutely ridiculous.

People are throwing around words like jury, evidence, motion, etc that they barely understand.

The chances of this even reaching a criminal trial are near zero and the chances of a conviction are zero.

Civil suits look like hail Mary's. Congrats at finding a bus stop lawyer to take the case. But if your lawyer doesnt have $15 to park his car, what are the chances he even shows up for court?

I've been on this website nearly 20 years. Kids these days need a huge wake up call. They dont live in the real world.

That money was stolen clean and square. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and as soon as mike cashed those chips they became his.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:38 AM   #8696
Bobo Fett
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcb08 View Post
Has anyone ever suggested that he knew what cards were coming?
Yes, but not for quite a while, so I'm not sure why it's come up again now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olswang View Post
I do. Discovered incidents of it occurring are reported regularly.
Yeah, I bet it has happened at times. However, that's a lot different than what you originally said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olswang View Post
Should the case ever reach a civil and/or criminal jury trial - which is possible but unlikely - I find it hard to imagine a scenario where no unsequestered juror has googled Mike Postle, Stones Gambling Hall, Poker, Cheating and reached pages like these and been informed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olswang View Post
Are you telling me that if you were chosen as a juror in a civil or criminal trial and were not sequestered that simply out of curiosity you would not try to find out more information about the case online during the trial? I find that difficult to believe.
The first post suggests that a scenario where at least one person on the jury hasn't done this is hard to imagine. Then in your second post you take a giant step further, and suggest that it's also difficult to believe that someone you know nothing about wouldn't do it as well. And unless there's something specific about this poster that makes you say that, the implication would be that you believe everyone would do the same thing. I wouldn't, and I expect most people wouldn't.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:34 AM   #8697
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
Exactly. Winning money isnt criminal. He won the money clean and square.

This thread is a bunch of haters who didnt think of bone conducting headphones first.

Most of the laws you are citing would only matter if the casino was cheated by a player or if a player was cheated by a casino.

All of these examples are a player cheating another player fair and square. To prove anything a guilty player would have to turn against the house. Or the house admit they were working with and conspiring against the player.

That's never going to happen now that joey, veronica, etc brought about all this mass speculation before they had any viable proof.

That's why you're seeing industry veterans apart from like matusow disassociate with this story immediately. It's all speculative. And ultimately no one wants their professional reputation, future endorsements, etc ruined by this "here today, gone tomorrow" headline.

My god lebron James is willing to ignore people getting murdered in China by political regimes to sell a few more socks before he retires and dies. And hes already a billionaire.

What do you think destitute poker pros, lifelong state gaming commissions, local legislatures, dealers, degens, and bar managers are talking about right now? Is this an existential crisis? No. This is a blip on the radar for them. A rough week at worst.

We know from hundreds of years of experience anyone who was gonna do anything would have already done it.

This story is over. Props to mike. He made more in 16 months than 99.9% Of professional poker players ever well. He found an edge and he took it. Good for him.
Worst poster in this entire thread, which is an amazing achievement in and of itself. Also probably the worst human being (unless Postle himself has posted).

He's also been a member since 2010 so I'd put the odds that he's straight trolling as fairly low.

Mind-numbing.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:39 AM   #8698
PraguePoker
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
Imagine if he would have randomly switched off god mode 50%-75% of the time and just played normally the rest of the time.
He would still have crushed pretty hard but would also almost certainly never been caught.
It reminds me of the quote that everything we know about serial killers comes from the ones that have been caught... You really have to wonder now how many live "crushers" out there are just too smart to go full God mode, content to win at a very high but statistically justifiable rate.

I've also wondered if Postle's high win rate gives more credence to the theory that he had more than just one accomplice. Which forced him to go full God mode as much as possible, as he was splitting his winnings 3 ways (or more).

He was probably able to negotiate a larger % of the total winnings with his accomplice or accomplices. They were likely paid employees of the casino, so Mike could justify his higher take by saying this was his only source of income, he was taking on more risk by being the front man, etc. So either pressure from them, or perhaps just Mike needing more when it was being split so many ways...

I still believe he had only one accomplice, however. I think it would have been very difficult to keep this quiet when more than 2 people are involved. But who knows.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:54 AM   #8699
88keyz
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallydurham View Post
Exactly. Winning money isnt criminal. He won the money clean and square.

This thread is a bunch of haters who didnt think of bone conducting headphones first.

Most of the laws you are citing would only matter if the casino was cheated by a player or if a player was cheated by a casino.

All of these examples are a player cheating another player fair and square. To prove anything a guilty player would have to turn against the house. Or the house admit they were working with and conspiring against the player.

That's never going to happen now that joey, veronica, etc brought about all this mass speculation before they had any viable proof.

That's why you're seeing industry veterans apart from like matusow disassociate with this story immediately. It's all speculative. And ultimately no one wants their professional reputation, future endorsements, etc ruined by this "here today, gone tomorrow" headline.

My god lebron James is willing to ignore people getting murdered in China by political regimes to sell a few more socks before he retires and dies. And hes already a billionaire.

What do you think destitute poker pros, lifelong state gaming commissions, local legislatures, dealers, degens, and bar managers are talking about right now? Is this an existential crisis? No. This is a blip on the radar for them. A rough week at worst.

We know from hundreds of years of experience anyone who was gonna do anything would have already done it.

This story is over. Props to mike. He made more in 16 months than 99.9% Of professional poker players ever well. He found an edge and he took it. Good for him.
you sound like you have manic depression
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:21 AM   #8700
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Yeah I thought rallydurham might be one of those posters...if a terrible troll poster like rally or passiveisbetter comes in firing off takes left and right, I'd hope the whole forum doesn't start arguing with him...i feel it really distracts from the legitamite and intelligent discussion we could have by not arguing with someone who seems dense. So I'm probably just adding to the digression and backseat moderating perhaps to boot, but give it some thought. I mean rally seems to be temped and others probably banned, but I'm assuming more trolls will surface.
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