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Old 10-15-2019, 05:05 AM   #8501
TardGuard
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
What are you talking about dude. Genuine nonsense, every word of this.
Wait until he hears about what happened to Phil Ivey
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:14 AM   #8502
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
May be a dumb question but how the hell could Postle afford a lawyer like this?
Someone else paying for it?
It's a great question and I'm not sure of the answer. I don't know a whole lot about all of that but completely speculatively:
  • May be tied in with Stones so they're using the same lawyer
  • Lawyer is doing it 'Pro Bono' as there will be so much media coverage (publicity for him)
  • Mike using his savings from being the biggest winner of all-time on UB
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:18 AM   #8503
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
I've been examining the 04-01-19 stream. I've established that after he finishes tapping a text in iMessage he usually presses the upper-left corner of the screen, which for iMessage returns you back to the list of conversations. I've also found instances where he presses the upper-left corner of the screen from the home page esp just before lowering the phone back into his lap. I was able to capture a frame of his home-screen app icons - after enhancing the color/contrast of that frame the upper-left icon on his home-screen appears green. I need some crowd-source help here to help identify all the possible iPhone apps that have a green icon. The first that comes to mind is Whatsapp. Here's the enhanced grab:

Sorry for double post but the 2nd app (orange one) looks very much like VLC app which would make sense for some sort of streaming cheating.

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Old 10-15-2019, 05:19 AM   #8504
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by fdevny View Post
Well, here's a Chinese site that has about a zillion poker (and other) cheating devices for sale, electronic & otherwise. It's mind boggling.

http://www.xfpokercheat.com/buy-poke...g_devices.html

In the great "poker is rigged debate" thread, the many non-riggies there make some pretty good arguments against the game being rigged in general. But sites like the one above suggests that some segments of both the online and casino poker world are surely being compromised. What % that might be, I have no idea.
You still need the dealer to be in on it with those devices. In practice, these devices are pretty much worthless in any multi table live setting.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:40 AM   #8505
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by slowlane123 View Post
It's a great question and I'm not sure of the answer. I don't know a whole lot about all of that but completely speculatively:
  • May be tied in with Stones so they're using the same lawyer
  • Lawyer is doing it 'Pro Bono' as there will be so much media coverage (publicity for him)
  • Mike using his savings from being the biggest winner of all-time on UB
I highly doubt Stones and MP would be represented by the same attorney. As a general rule; if you find yourself named as one of many defendants in a civil suit, get your own lawyer: you just might need to throw the other defendants "under the bus." I also doubt an attorney would take on something like this pro bono. At the end of the day; MP paying for his lawyer is simply one of his many current problems.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:57 AM   #8506
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by jal300 View Post
I highly doubt Stones and MP would be represented by the same attorney. As a general rule; if you find yourself named as one of many defendants in a civil suit, get your own lawyer: you just might need to throw the other defendants "under the bus." I also doubt an attorney would take on something like this pro bono. At the end of the day; MP paying for his lawyer is simply one of his many current problems.
I'd say you're probably right on both fronts...
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:27 AM   #8507
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by slowlane123 View Post
You are kidding yourself if you think his lawyer is anything but an absolute beast. He is one of the most highly decorated gambling/technology lawyers in the the US, maybe even the world.

I would argue there is probably not a single person on the planet who has a better chance at getting Mike off this than this guy and I want Mike to lose as much as anyone.

Dumb looking quotes like this on Twitter are often intentional ploys by lawyers make the opposing legal team think exactly what you're thinking and subsequently underestimate their abilities. Statements like this even have a specific term but I can't remember it (been a while since my legal studies).

Thanks for your stats posts though. Enjoying the reads
So is their plan just to bamboozle the poker-illiterate jury by discrediting all the statistics as nerd math in the absence of any 'smoking gun'?

They must be fairly confident about the outcome of the technology inquest?
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:32 AM   #8508
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I found a 1/2 plo stream September 10th 2018 of mike blatantly staring at his crotch. I believe this is a different plo stream that was covered earlier. And a different one from what Joey covered. I timestamped a hand that clearly shows mike fake peeling cards on the turn while bending far into crotch. Im not sure when he starts cheating during this stream but once he gets a bit more deepstacked we can see it blatantly. Take a look at the massive crotch stares (especially on the turn) and the perfect river bluff below. If anyone wants to dissect this stream please do so.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=12106s

03:21:46

Next hand. Look at how Mike bends over to look at crotch before he goes to peel his cards. He messed up here and went for the crotch way before the card peel VERY TELLING! To me its virtually the smoking gun.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=15048s

04:10:45

Edit: i watched a tiny bit more of this stream and i am concluding that since this is just less than 2 months since god mode mike began (July 18th 2018), Mike was bad at masking the crotch stares. This is a really telling stream. Mike builds up a huge stack 1/2 plo.

One more plo crotch stare below .

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=15498s

Last edited by Grind On My Mind; 10-15-2019 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:59 AM   #8509
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
I found a 1/2 plo stream September 10th 2018 of mike blatantly staring at his crotch. I believe this is a different plo stream that was covered earlier. And a different one from what Joey covered. I timestamped a hand that clearly shows mike fake peeling cards on the turn while bending far into crotch. Im not sure when he starts cheating during this stream but once he gets a bit more deepstacked we can see it blatantly. Take a look at the massive crotch stares (especially on the turn) and the perfect river bluff below. If anyone wants to dissect this stream please do so.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=12106s

03:21:46

Next hand. Look at how Mike bends over to look at crotch before he goes to peel his cards. He messed up here and went for the crotch way before the card peel VERY TELLING! To me its virtually the smoking gun.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=15048s

04:10:45

Edit: i watched a tiny bit more of this stream and i am concluding that since this is just less than 2 months since god mode mike began (July 18th 2018), Mike was bad at masking the crotch stares. This is a really telling stream. Mike builds up a huge stack 1/2 plo.
For you PLO specialists - the hand at 03:25:45.

Is that snap fold on the river with a boat by Postle really a standard play?
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:01 AM   #8510
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

What is the prize for being the 1,000,000th viewer of this thread?
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:02 AM   #8511
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by crotch_lawyer View Post
Playing devil's advocate: Here's a case for Mike Postle Innocence (or not guilty for that matter).<SNIP>

During the Mike The Mouth podcast, he said that after he won, he actually told the other players that they could take their pots back.
Why would he be cheating if in the end he actually allowed the other players to take their shares of the pot back?
Postle played differently against Moneymaker. He was friends - or trying to be friendly - with him. As well as the 54o hand where he let Moneymaker have most of his chips back, Postle didn't make his "usual" godmode moves in a couple of spots against Moneymaker. (Indeed, in at least one stream, Postle didn't sit down until Moneymaker had left the table).
One theory is that Postle cheated less when experienced pros (like Moneymaker or Berkey) were around, possibly because they might work out something was up. Postle mostly went for the soft targets; the casual players like "the lawyer", the "Teriyaki business man", and Veronica's friends.
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Originally Posted by Tsajaja View Post
This Postle's cap pic is definitely my favorite.
That is the funniest "RFID error" of this saga! (It also proves that it's possible to do some realtime manual-overriding of the hole-card graphics. Putting part of Postle's avatar in there, presumably accidentally, is such a crazy misclick though!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleinfeld8 View Post
Apologies in advance if this session has already been discussed. If it hasn't, it'll provide plenty of amusement to those of you that aren't big fans of Apostle...
14 Mar 2019 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2igxMKN3WxY
<SNIP> [click the blue arrow in the quote to see the notes]
Thanks for these session notes. I've added a link to your post in the spreadsheet.
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Originally Posted by JustSome1 View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eYbMfvswe4
Remember, this is one of the first streams after his phone went down<SNIP>.
Thanks for these notes too. That session was previously uninvestigated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSwag View Post
It's surprising the other players didn't adjust to him considering this went on for so long. Like so many spots where they could hero call his ass.
Some of them did. It's partly why the pots got so big, with Postle's opponents occasionally also making outrageous plays with "no equity" hands. They'd seen him making crazy donk-bluffs, seen him winning a lot, and heard him being called the "best player" at Stones, so they must have been influenced by him. It's just that when these players tried making big moves, they hardly ever worked because they did them somewhat randomly. Postle's big bluffs weren't random at all. When godmoding, he never bluffed into a hand that couldn't be folded.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:03 AM   #8512
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Olswang View Post
For you PLO specialists - the hand at 03:25:45.

Is that snap fold on the river with a boat by Postle really a standard play?
Thats rediculous. I added the time stamp below. He folds 10 7 on a 9 10 7 7 A board to a single river bet and of course his opponent has 10 10.

Better question how does mike not raise the turn here turning the 2nd nuts. Just flats after a couple of flats. REDICULOUS

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=12472s

Last edited by Grind On My Mind; 10-15-2019 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:25 AM   #8513
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Thats rediculous. I added the time stamp below. He folds 10 7 on a 9 10 7 7 A board to a single river bet and of course his opponent has 10 10.

Better question how does mike not raise the turn here holding the 2nd nuts. Just flats after a coupke of flats. REDICULOUS

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=12472s
yeah lol, he doesnt jsut fold, he snap folds, that is jsut totally ridiculous, also a raise on the turn would seem like the more normal play.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:32 AM   #8514
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
Thats rediculous. I added the time stamp below. He folds 10 7 on a 9 10 7 7 A board to a single river bet and of course his opponent has 10 10.

Better question how does mike not raise the turn here turning the 2nd nuts. Just flats after a couple of flats. REDICULOUS

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/308566276?t=12472s
The turn call is absolutely 100% standard, raising would be bad. He has the third nuts, by the way. He's beat by TT and 99. It's like a 7 way turn lol. In PLO ranges converge extremely quickly once a bet and a raise goes in, or a bet goes in multiway. Raising turn literally folds out everything he beats and gets called by everything he's losing to or chopping with, pretty much
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:11 AM   #8515
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I think this is a fold more often than not. I don’t know the player, but vs most not so great players you played a lot with, you will know where you are at when they throw out a big bet like this after the turn action 90% of the time. Now if he’s an unknown that might be a different story, but even then it’s not a snap call.

Raising turn is just silly.

Last edited by MATT111; 10-15-2019 at 09:20 AM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:21 AM   #8516
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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This is such an easy case for the prosecutor. If that argument is used the simple question then would be: find one other person that can prove they have had such a win streak. Only one.

Case closed.

proves everything here on 2+2.

nothing more than circumstantial evidence in court and that alone would not be enough for guilty verdict.

They will need to flip a witness that will testify to what happened or find direct evidence of cheating. Then case closed.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:28 AM   #8517
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by oldandwise View Post
I am one of the many you are referring to. I have been a member for over 10 years but rarely post. I am not a Pro or anyone with big results or a big name. I just enjoy playing poker as many out there do and I read a lot of NVG posts and enjoy the content. I am a recreational live player for over 36 years who played at Binion's Horseshoe during the 80's, the Mirage poker room during the 90's and in most of South Florida's poker rooms the past 15 years or so. Cheating has always been an issue in poker and I have felt at times while playing something funny was going on but always ended up either leaving or losing my stack and chalking it up to playing badly or getting unlucky. This Mike Postle cheating scandal fascinates me for many reasons and the fact that is went on for so long while being streamed live just boggles my mind. The guy had the balls to cheat players for on a live stream for what looks like hundred of thousands of dollars and the scary part is that had he dumped some chips and made some hero calls when behind and actually lost more often this may have gone on for years to come. This story is bringing out many of us who have played live for years to post a comment because we can all relate to those players at Stones Gambling Hall who had to leave the poker room on many occasions thinking WTF just happened. I hope some others out there agree with me.
That was some pages ago (thread moves so fast )...
Thank you for replying. You're exactly one of the persons I was NOT referring to -> that's definitely only a good sign, when people come back having your background or likewise

Good luck at the tables !

And thanks again to all the guys investing their time digging into this
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:51 AM   #8518
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
proves everything here on 2+2.

nothing more than circumstantial evidence in court and that alone would not be enough for guilty verdict.

They will need to flip a witness that will testify to what happened or find direct evidence of cheating. Then case closed.
But if sued in civil court the plaintiff only needs the balance of probability ie 51% sure to win
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:02 AM   #8519
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by aoFrantic View Post
What are you talking about dude. Genuine nonsense, every word of this.
No evidence provides proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. With this logic, no one could ever be convicted of a crime. There is plenty of evidence that - when put together - creates a strong case against Mike Postle. This whole "there is no proof" thing seems to come from people who haven't seen all the evidence, and his winnings are not the only evidence or the most damning evidence. That said, sophisticated gamblers know that the statistical evidence alone makes him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The question is whether a jury can understand this.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:11 AM   #8520
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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nothing more than circumstantial evidence in court and that alone would not be enough for guilty verdict.
I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that that could be plenty for a civil case where they only need to show it is more likely than not that he cheated, not beyond a reasonable doubt as is required in a criminal case.

If it was a criminal case, showing no one has ever been known achieve such a high win rate over such a period alone would likely not be enough. There is a chance he's one of the best players in the world or went on an unprecedented heater. But in a civil case, since it is more likely than not that he's not one of the best players in the world and that he didn't run better than anyone ever has, it could be enough to find in favor of the plaintiffs.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:18 AM   #8521
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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No. Working with others in planning a crime and acting in furtherance of the plan is a conspiracy. Just because you plan/work with another does not mean it's fraud. Fraud is a specific type of crime: cheating in a card game is not fraud, it's cheating. And no one is going to be charged with conspiracy. One gets charged with conspiracy when you plan a crime, act in furtherance of that plan BUT NOT actually commit the crime (i.e. Police arrest you before you carry out the crime). MP actually cheated, he already committed the offense, it's no longer conspiracy once you commit the crime.
Trying to catch up on all this, and this post is just plain wrong. If you don't know, don't speculate about these things.

It's a conspiracy regardless of whether the crime was completed. A conspiracy requires an agreement to commit a crime. What you were talking about was an "attempt" to commit a crime, which doesn't apply here. They completed it, and agreed to do it ahead of time = conspiracy to commit fraud.

And yes, it is fraud, i.e., theft by scheme or trick. (Plaintiffs added RICO to their complaint, too...yikes!) To my knowledge there's no such crime as "cheating at poker." Lol....
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:31 AM   #8522
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that that could be plenty for a civil case where they only need to show it is more likely than not that he cheated, not beyond a reasonable doubt as is required in a criminal case.

good point. yes I was mixing up the two.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:45 AM   #8523
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I just recently got back into Poker - since I moved to AZ and Vegas is 4 hours away. I started watching DNEG's WSOP daily vlogs this year and it occurred to me anyone who thinks Postle is a God and one of the best should watch what happens to one of the best.

It is shocking to compare his experience vs Postle, yes I know WSOP is not a cash game, but the point I'm making is Daniel got busted a lot - it happens to even the greats, except for Postle. That is what is really shocking, Postle is never wrong. And Daniel wasn't trying to make crazy plays with 45o etc either.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:02 AM   #8524
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I’m not sure if this is news or not. I’m not even close to being caught up in this thread.

This popped up on the Sacramento Business Journal about 20 min ago:

The casino has hired former federal prosecutor Michael Lipman to conduct an investigation into the claims.

“Stones is very serious about finding out what, if anything, happened,” Lipman said. The casino has also hired New York City-based digital forensics company Stroz Friedberg to examine the casino’s computer system.

“Everything that’s been said on the internet and in the complaint is what I would describe as circumstantial evidence,” Lipman said. “The best evidence is going to be what results from the examination of the computers.””


https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...tion-into.html
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:08 AM   #8525
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
What is the prize for being the 1,000,000th viewer of this thread?
One week expense-paid trip to Stones Casino. Second-place prize is two weeks.
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