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Old 10-13-2019, 06:52 PM   #8276
Jay Why
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...3CF41.html?t=2

His online results at Pokerstars don't match his claims of being a big online winner

Year 2008 $7,852 from 92 tournaments

Year 2007 $2,366 from 47tournaments

His UB results where he claims 2M wins leave something to be desired

https://www.pocketfives.com/index.ph...direction=desc


Total Cashes: $61,123

Last edited by Jay Why; 10-13-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:53 PM   #8277
Natamus
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Xen,

Cool data bro but it doesn’t mean squat
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:56 PM   #8278
pocket_zeros
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biceps View Post
The most bizzare video I've seen of any live poker game being broadcasted online is the following:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/404837763

For a start, Mike's hat looks stuffed exactly in the shape of a bone conductor:

At 38:15 there's a dealer change and as the dealer leaves, at 38:30 you can see Mike hand him something just before he leaves.
I think he handed the departing dealer a tip since he won the last hand of the dealer's sit.

I've been looking through the Twitch video you linked and found something suspicious at 1:38:58. He puts his right hand under the table and is doing a bunch of movements with his fingers then looks down at his hand, all while looking away.

His phone is on the table so it's not that. Here is the video zoomed in, at both normal playback and slowed-down:

Normal playback speed: https://streamable.com/9wzps
Playback speed of 25%: 25%: https://streamable.com/5pfai
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Old 10-13-2019, 06:59 PM   #8279
Jokers Full
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

What a time to be alive. How does one get sick enough at soul reads to win at that clip. If I read Mike Caro religiously will I know how to call down with 84s and then fold TPGK on the flop. What a joke that anybody is defending him. My question is do we just wait for the investigation to procure something?

Dick Tracy,

You just triggered me. My dad used to come to all my baseball games with a six pack of cold ones and call the umpire a slew of homophobic slurs. To say I was embarrassed would be like saying the ocean is deep. An understatement.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:00 PM   #8280
Wild Card
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
I think he handed the departing dealer a tip since he won the last hand of the dealer's sit.

I've been looking through the Twitch video you linked and found something suspicious at 1:38:58. He puts his right hand under the table and is doing a bunch of movements with his fingers then looks down at his hand, all while looking away.

His phone is on the table so it's not that. Here is the video zoomed in, at both normal playback and slowed-down:

Normal playback speed: https://streamable.com/9wzps
Playback speed of 25%: 25%: https://streamable.com/5pfai
good find.
There was another clip a few posts back, where I thought it looked like he had stuck the phone to the underside of the table, or something!
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:03 PM   #8281
pocket_zeros
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
good find.
There was another clip a few posts back, where I thought it looked like he had stuck the phone to the underside of the table, or something!
At 1:57:10 someone hands him a white charger cable, after which he reaches under the table as if he's trying to plug it into a charger on the table. But then a USB power bank appears and is on top of the table and plugged into his phone.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:06 PM   #8282
kiddo1987
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
This is the music playlist from mike postles youtube channel. Does the music he listens to have any correlation to his cheating? Probably not but its worth a look. How do i know this is the official youtube of mike postle? Because this is the same Mike postle that has commented in the youtube live chat replay in stones games from last year.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...BoPGFfNNv-CxSI
OMG Postle has absolutely awful taste in music.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:09 PM   #8283
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Xenicide View Post
Not sure if its relevant or not but there is proof that JFK is a recovering alcoholic. His Youtube channel is full of vlogs relating to him trying to get sober. He wiped his Youtube clean just a few days ago tho. That's kind of strange don't you think?
Why would that be weird? People who are recovering addicts are usually really open about it and go to great lengths to work on themselves as it’s a daily battle. I’m from the camp that JFK is a co-conspirator but him working the program isn’t relevant.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:13 PM   #8284
Jokers Full
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Kiddo,

Correction. People who are recovering addicts usually talk about it ad nauseam.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:18 PM   #8285
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by kiddo1987 View Post
Why would that be weird? People who are recovering addicts are usually really open about it and go to great lengths to work on themselves as it’s a daily battle. I’m from the camp that JFK is a co-conspirator but him working the program isn’t relevant.
I probably wouldn't of even mentioned it if he didn't snap delete his Youtube channel a day or 2 after this started.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:30 PM   #8286
Wild Card
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
At 1:57:10 someone hands him a white charger cable, after which he reaches under the table as if he's trying to plug it into a charger on the table. But then a USB power bank appears and is on top of the table and plugged into his phone.
I mean this clip here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/286409381?t=03h43m08s

Where he pretends to get his phone from his back pocket with his left hand, but really he passes it from his right hand to his left hand from under the table.
When he first makes this move it looks like his right arm is flexing a bit, like he is un-sticking it from the underside of the table or something.

made me think maybe he has something stuck to the underside of the table here too:
https://streamable.com/9wzps

What do you think?
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:35 PM   #8287
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natamus View Post
Xen,

Cool data bro but it doesn’t mean squat
It doesn't mean anything if they are innocent.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:42 PM   #8288
pocket_zeros
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
I mean this clip here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/286409381?t=03h43m08s

Where he pretends to get his phone from his back pocket with his left hand, but really he passes it from his right hand to his left hand from under the table.
When he first makes this move it looks like his right arm is flexing a bit, like he is un-sticking it from the underside of the table or something.

made me think maybe he has something stuck to the underside of the table here too:
https://streamable.com/9wzps

What do you think?
It's hard to tell if he passes his phone between hands because it almost looks like his right hand is empty as he reaches (or pretends to reach) into his pocket. More suspicious to me is how he keeps the phone very close to his body until he makes a few touch gestures on the screen, after which he stops protecting the screen and starts tapping out a message. That tells me there was something on the screen he didn't want the camera to see when he pulled it out of his lap/pocket.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:48 PM   #8289
Wild Card
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
It's hard to tell if he passes his phone between hands because it almost looks like his right hand is empty as he reaches (or pretends to reach) into his pocket. More suspicious to me is how he keeps the phone very close to his body until he makes a few touch gestures on the screen, after which he stops protecting the screen and starts tapping out a message. That tells me there was something on the screen he didn't want the camera to see when he pulled it out of his lap/pocket.
oh yeah it's definately there, if you slow it right down, you can see the corner of it in his right hand. took me a couple of views to notice it, other people pointed it out first. I was wondering about the right forearm flex though, looked like un-sticking from the underside of the table maybe.
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Old 10-13-2019, 07:53 PM   #8290
DrBoogerLips
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by garetjaxor View Post
Found it - source is a tweet from Marle

JFK is the poker room floor..who has a new Tesla that he showed off to me and
@berkey11
. Seems to be doing good for himself.
Do you have a live link to this? Thanks
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:04 PM   #8291
YeahYou
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
Huh? Except the footage doesnt come back on. It was just a guess that it was going to come back on and he was wrong. I don't understand how people can watch footage of a guy saying the livestream is going to come back......now. And then it doesn't come back on and somehow that is damning evidence?? Gtfoh guys. Stop making stuff up and calling it evidence.
I agree with this 100%. I have brought this up before. It's very similar to people saying Mike's name on stream being SMFC meant show me four cards. It's also similar to but not exactly the same as Xenicide saying things like "I just want to state that its been confirmed that "godeep" is most likely Mike. Anyone replying to his posts are just falling for his trap and polluting the forum with garbage please ignore all posts from "godeep"

I laugh every time I think about the post that states it's been confirmed that ____ is most likely _____. There is so much evidence against Mike Postle. We don't need any fake evidence. The fake evidence we've seen in this thread will only hurt the overall case against Mike.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:18 PM   #8292
Xenicide
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I left out Masta C (13 days) Godmode On in my original post sorry.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:37 PM   #8293
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
My explanation is LOL variance. Last week played 6 days. Won every day like 15 buy-ins from spins. Like every time there was coinflip I won, lol variance. Will be at other end pretty soon.
I actually enjoyed the dude who plays .25c spins ams thought $1k an hour in 1/3 PLO was possible coming in hot and thinking he had any idea until he got banned.
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:42 PM   #8294
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBoogerLips View Post
Do you have a live link to this? Thanks
https://twitter.com/MarleCordeiro/st...94332338151431
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Old 10-13-2019, 08:52 PM   #8295
piranha
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I watched the first two streams in their entirety and am about an hour and a half into the 3rd stream.

Let me preface by saying I came in with bias that there was a 1 in a million chance he was innocent, I now think it's about 1 in a trillion.

I wanted to make a spreadsheet with all his river hands. Although I've done this, it's very challenging because he's in and out of God mode throughout the first two videos and very likely for a stretch in the 3rd. It's obvious when his phone is on the rail but not so obvious on hands where we never see him look at his cards and he makes a suboptimal play. I tried to only record the river hands where I thought it was clear he looked at his phone in his lap at some point. There were a few exceptions though.

If you don't want to read further before this gets too long, check out two things that I found incredibly suspicious and I don't think either have been posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWPHGvuqDg

This is 1:54:20 of the 2nd suspected stream he was cheating. These were my thoughts watching it:

"At 1:54:20 is one of the most suspicious things I've seen through the first two streams. He'd just finished eating something and his phone is in his pocket to start the hand. Someone opens for $26, Mike calls for $23 from the small blind and then hurriedly grabs his phone out of his pocket, pushes a button, and puts it in his lap as the flop is being dealt. You can see the chair going back at 1:54:50 as he's starting to look down and it cuts out (it's not clear if he sees his phone). The timing here is incredibly suspicious, what would prompt someone to grab their phone and place it between their legs right after being dealt TT in a heads up pot?"

2nd suspicious thing (to me at least):

25:20 of his 3rd session. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eYbMfvswe4

This isn't verified as a session of him being in God mode but I can say with virtual certainty he is in it for the vast majority of what I've watched.

Here were my thoughts watching: I'm not sure if he thinks he's off camera but can clearly see him grab his hat and look down. He then picks his phone up and looks at it briefly - this is the first time I've ever seen the phone in plain site coming up from the lap during a hand. It's a bomb pot with 8 players so assuming he's seeing hands, there'd be a lot to take in. Mike is in the white shirt/black hat at the bottom left of the screen

----------------------------------------------------------
More thoughts from watching

From about the 2 hour mark on of the first presumed God session, he's fidgeting with his phone, looking around, leaving the table etc. This actually continues into the second session as well. He looks very uncomfortable and awkward in a lot of spots. Distressed almost.

He stood up or left the table 11 times in the 1st stream, 10 times in the second stream. So far only once in the 3rd stream about 1.5 hours in.

In the 2nd stream, he changed the position of his chip stack. There were about a dozen times in the first stream, he was trying to look down but couldn't see his phone.

In the 3rd stream, he's changed his body positioning\body language. He's still sitting with the phone in his lap (much more than the first two streams), but now he almost always has his left arm covering his lap when in God Mode. He slides his arm slightly up when against one or two opponents. When against many opponents, he slides his arm much further up while looking down. And once (linked above), in an 8 way pot, he just picks his phone up and looks at it quickly midhand.

---------------------------------------------
A few general thoughts (there's a whole lot more of everything in the spreadsheet)

I think it's going to be extremely difficult to prove he's guilty through his poker actions. He's not always in God mode. Sometimes he's eating, sometimes he puts his phone on the table, sometimes he just doesn't seem to look down. There's a strong correlation between his mistakes and these periods but very difficult to prove imo.

Many of the river decisions are subjective and there aren't clear right answers. Should he go for value with 2nd pair or induce a bluff? Should he bet or try to check/raise? etc. etc.

Also I don't underestimate him at all. He's smart enough to know it can't be completely blatant so there were a couple spots where it felt like to me, he was just doing what he had to do despite knowing he'd be making a "mistake".

This is going to skew any river stats. I will say, I've yet to see a single hand where he's called a river bet and lost though. It's still a small sample but could be significant evidence over a bigger sample if it holds up.

Last thought:

There were several instances where Stones messed up the pot. Some got corrected some didn't. In one case, they awarded the pot to the wrong player (on the graphics) and I didn't see the chip stacks adjust at least for a few hands - I lost track after that. I have no clue if rake is being accounted for either.

I don't think they are far off (and mistakes should go either way) but they are not accurate either.

Here's the spreadsheet, Time permitting this week, I'll go through a few more streams.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:14 PM   #8296
hmm422
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...3CF41.html?t=2

His online results at Pokerstars don't match his claims of being a big online winner

Year 2008 $7,852 from 92 tournaments

Year 2007 $2,366 from 47tournaments

His UB results where he claims 2M wins leave something to be desired

https://www.pocketfives.com/index.ph...direction=desc


Total Cashes: $61,123
I vaguely remember yngmanN4quiki on UB. I think he might have been banned/restricted for collusion, but this is a long time ago. If anyone knows his connections to other plo8 players, that would shed some light on more ethics.

Edit: See his PS name now. We have no games together there, so he definitely wasn't crushing anything on stars. Ironic name though.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:14 PM   #8297
Turdzilla
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WateryBoil View Post
everyone is calling him out, no one with an IQ above room temperature is debating this. if you are talking about players at the table....uhhh... its probably a bit harder to catch it without seeing footage.

people are just gathering info/data and evidence for possible use against him in the upcoming lawsuit.
Has anyone summarized the frequency of players in Postle's game? I wonder if friends were warned to not play hands with him. You look at the second-place horse in a fixed race.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:24 PM   #8298
pocket_zeros
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by piranha View Post
I watched the first two streams in their entirety and am about an hour and a half into the 3rd stream.

Let me preface by saying I came in with bias that there was a 1 in a million chance he was innocent, I now think it's about 1 in a trillion.
Thanks for taking the time to do an independent look of the streams and for writing all your findings in a post. Although much of this has been covered it's still helpful to get a fresh set of eyes on everything. Sometimes these threads can turn into echo chamber, where we can lose perspective so having fresh looks always helps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piranha View Post
He's still sitting with the phone in his lap (much more than the first two streams), but now he almost always has his left arm covering his lap when in God Mode. He slides his arm slightly up when against one or two opponents. When against many opponents, he slides his arm much further up while looking down. And once (linked above), in an 8 way pot, he just picks his phone up and looks at it quickly midhand.
Based on of video screen shots of his phone (blue screen, matching the chroma key color of the PokerGFX software) there is strong indirect evidence Mike is watching a live stream of the hole cards on his phone. Since a phone's screen is relatively small we've theorized he's zoomed into a portion of the feed's content, allowing him to make out the cards but limiting his view to just a few hands at a time. We've theorized he keeps one arm+hand under the table to secretly pan around on his phone's screen to see a different set of cards in the zoomed-in view. The fact you've correlated the amount of his arm/hand movement with the number of players he's in a hand against is further support for that theory. That's a great observation!
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:31 PM   #8299
aoFrantic
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Why View Post
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...3CF41.html?t=2

His online results at Pokerstars don't match his claims of being a big online winner

Year 2008 $7,852 from 92 tournaments

Year 2007 $2,366 from 47tournaments

His UB results where he claims 2M wins leave something to be desired

https://www.pocketfives.com/index.ph...direction=desc


Total Cashes: $61,123
It's very common for people to overstate or outright lie about how good they were 10+ years ago online. His biggest live score was *12* years ago. There is really no indication he had any big years online or off until the cheating started. While there are many pros living off the 30-50k it seems like he was also capable of grinding, it's not fun as a pro having down years and most often think after a big score/year that the good times will continue.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:35 PM   #8300
ArtyMcFly
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by king_nothing_ View Post
In the Matusow interview, I believe Postle said his winnings were roughly half what people on the internet were claiming.
Well he had to give half to his accomplice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind On My Mind View Post
They didnt play 1/3 25 straddle. They may have done something like that for 5% of the hands.
I haven't kept track of the frequency, but $25 straddles seemed fairly common in Veronica's game (hence Mike's ridiculous turn 4-bet with ace high for 1667bb, to create a pot that was the size of 30 buy-ins for a standard 1/3 game). Maybe straddles only happened 5% of the time, but they appear to me (much) more common in the most suspicious hand histories.
The hands with a straddle or a bomb pot (which happened every time there was a change of dealer, but might have been even more frequent) tend to stick out in the footage. They are the hands where Postle exhibits the most suspicious behaviours (e.g. crotch-staring) and where he makes the most outrageous plays. Bigger pots => more incentive to cheat, ldo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat View Post
This scandal has brought terrible publicity to Jason’s [you mean Justin's] employer, and now an expensive lawsuit. If he was genuinely fooled by Mike he still would have cut bait long ago to protect his employer. Instead all of his behavior has been to protect Mike and deny any possible issues, which helped this scandal mushroom out of control.
Postle was JFK's friend for several years. Many/most people put their friends before their employers in their list of priorities. When it's all "he said, she said", everyone is biased in favour of their friends, at least at first.
You're right that JFK should have done a thorough investigation (not least because his own job would be at stake if the suspicions of cheating had merit, and sweeping them under the carpet would come back to bite him), but my hunch is that he just didn't want to believe his friend was guilty (i.e. he went into denial). So he covered for him, by effectively - but separately - telling Kasey and Veronica that they were paranoid and were basically imagining that cheating was going on. I think that JFK may have convinced himself that cheating wasn't possible, because "Only two guys see the holecards, and they're locked in a booth", and "Postle is my friend and favourite player (...so he couldn't possibly be involved)". (Note that other friends and relatives of Postle refused to believe he was guilty when the story broke, at least at first).
It might have only been recently that JFK found out the true extent of what had happened on his watch. If so, the realization that he'd mistakenly put his trust and faith in a cheating toerag (his friend), and indeed staked his own reputation on the "Godlike" player on his stream, must have been devastating, not least because it means JFK's own career is in tatters. In this reading, JFK was Postle's 'useful idiot'. JFK covered for Postle out of loyalty to a "friend", but that friend was lying to him all along. JFK's naive faith in Postle has led, via his negligence and a failure to address others' suspicions, to his own ruin. When he was shutting down his social media pages, perhaps at least partly out of embarrassment at all the plaudits he'd given Postle, I imagine him crying "How could I have been so stupid?"
Either that, or he was in on it.
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