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Old 10-12-2019, 09:22 AM   #7801
Olswang
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

So, as I understand it the current status can be summarized thus:

1. There have been no confessions to date from Postle and/or any co-conspirators.
2. Postle’s own attorney – William J Portanova has said his client maintains his innocence of any wrongdoing.
3. 10 days after an investigation was launched; Michael Lipman – Stones’ own attorney and lead investigator has announced – all information and evidence gleaned to date is circumstantial and that “Definitive evidence will be found by forensically examining the computer systems used to broadcast the stream”. To that end computer forensics company Stroz Friedberg has been hired and preliminary results are due early next week.
4. The Bureau of Gambling Control, part of the California DOJ, is also investigating and Stones has been cooperating with it fully from day 1.

I guess the big question is what happens if Stroz Friedberg fail to uncover anything incriminating?
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:25 AM   #7802
washoe
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Re: odds he's not cheating: 1 googol! : 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
My thinking is that JFK wasn't even capable of being a technological accomplice until long after the cheating started, because he didn't have the technological know-how. He's a people person, a manager, not a software geek. Maybe JFK got involved in sending holecard data at some point, or helped to cover it up when he found out one of his staff members was involved, but I think it's more likely that his role in this fiasco was that of negligent show-runner.

My theory is that a certain someone got promoted to the role of editing/production assistant some time between January and July 2018, and then casually told Postle something like "It's so cool. In the booth I get to see all the holecards live..." and a plan was hatched by the pair of them from there.
Listen to the Joey veronica interview. Justin could do whatever he wanted at stones. He was the kim Jung ... Of stones. The owner trusted him "like his son"
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:28 AM   #7803
jonovan
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

The thing that tilts me is how nobody, especially the dealer, told him to stop being on his phone DURING a hand, which he did multiple times every single session.

Everywhere I play has a "no using your phone while in a hand" rule. It doesn't get enforced 100% of the time; I've seen plenty of people be on calls, text, internet, watch sports, etc while in a hand (heck, I'm often watching a UFC fight), but that's usually only once or twice a night. If it's more than that, the dealer will ALWAYS ask the player to turn off their phone while in a hand, at least if the player is interacting with the phone; they're a little more lenient if someone is obviously watching sports.

And I've NEVER seen someone hide their phone under the table while in a hand. It's always up to their ear (talking) or in their hand above the table (texting, interneting) or on the rail (watching sports).

I've even been at casinos that have a "no phone at the table, even while not in the hand" rule. You had to stand up and leave the table to be on your phone. A bit extreme given how addicted people are to their phones nowadays, but the dealers actually strongly enforced the rule; they didn't just let it slide.

I can understand how the other players wouldn't want to call him on it, just like people often are afraid to call the clock on others, but it's literally one of the dealers' jobs to enforce that rule, and they do so at every other casino I've played at, at least if it occurs this often.

It's inconceivable to me that he was looking at his phone BELOW the table in EVERY SINGLE hand he won but was never told to stop.

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Old 10-12-2019, 09:32 AM   #7804
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 001001 View Post
I'm running blue screen + object detection for phones along with face recognition at the moment, it's just slow but it'll eventually post results (it's running slower than the frame rate of the videos but i'm going to parallelize it further)

Some of these tasks would be better to split up and assign out on Mechanical Turk and produce a comprehensive dataset of who played, when, hand history, seat positions, etc. - you can layer object detection on top of that but such a data set should prove very conclusive

There are also subtle little things that are hard to find - for ex. I spotted a video where it appears he is about to enable god mode, checks his phone and it appears it doesn't work, he then opens a text messaging session and subtly looks towards the TD booth after texting - he gets a response and then leaves his phone unlocked between his legs and is in god mode from then on

edit: here is part of that sequence:

https://streamable.com/uv4qv

note it freezes at the beginning because my ffmpeg slice missed a key frame

here is what I see there:

0:13 - sees a message notification and presses on it
0:16 - pulls back from table so nobody can see screen and reads message
0:23 - glances up towards TD booth
0:25 - presses 11-13 characters and space at least once and hits reply (not sure if we can figure out what he types here but the view is okish)
0:27 - doesn't lock his phone (screen still awake) and places it between his legs and pulls his chair back in

here's the glance



video slowed down 5x for those who don't want to download to slowdown or freeze etc.

https://streamable.com/3w3ux
This is very good.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:37 AM   #7805
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext View Post
Postle and his supporters could try to "explain" the absurdly high win rate, as people have posted. Of course, the win rate did not magically appear out of thin air. We have the videos which show how he achieved such a high win rate. Making the correct decision in a vast number of hands, many of which do not make "good poker sense". Thus he had a very high win rate and a low variance (the ideal combination).

Prevailing against Postle in a civil or criminal matter would likely require something resembling a smoking gun. This could be other people coming forward and suggesting how he did it from a technical angle. Or phone/server logs showing highly suspicious communication or logins.

If there is a jury of non-poker players who can't really wrap their heads around win rates and GFX servers, here is my dream scenario. You have Matt Berkey come into the courtroom and hand each member of the jury a cell phone with a certain app on it. You bring in an RFID table and deal out 9 hands. Of course, nobody knows what anybody's cards are, but Berkey shows the jury how the GFX server "knows" what each player's cards are via the RFID system.

Then Berkey presses a button on the GFX server and, as if by magic, all of the players' cards then appear on each member of the jury's cell phone. You then show how Postle had access to that "app", either through his knowledge of the Stones Live Stream setup or through an accomplice.

Everybody would understand it is easy to win a lot of money playing poker if you know your opponents cards.
Yeah the thing about the winrate and those who claim he could've been on a heater, anytime I've been on a heater over the years it's been periods where I've set over set people etc at a high rate or been binking all over the place and my SD winnings reflect that. Of course that breeds a confidence that affects your general play but ultimately with Postle that's not what we're seeing, it's not a spike in his SD winnings it's all these huge bizarre bluffs that are never wrong. That's not a heater.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:39 AM   #7806
Grind On My Mind
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I would like to submit the Berkey and Polk interview video as evidence and expert testimony in the prosecution against Mike Postle and company. They clearly go over the 69 off suit hand changing to the 98 of spades and how that is impossible to have happened without the graphics changing in realtime (meaning collusion). That would mean either justin or someone from the production side was in a rush to change the hand in that moment. They go over many other things damning to Postle and Justin as well as the blue screen theory.

https://youtu.be/CW9B9bE50ZU

(Can someone link the 98of spades hand and use quotations to keep this all together?) i had trouble finding it at first glance.

Last edited by Grind On My Mind; 10-12-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:40 AM   #7807
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I don't have a law degree or anything, but if Postle was on trial and I was in the jury i'd be convinced of his guilt if the prosecution could prove that

1. it would've been practically impossible for a non-cheating player to achieve what he did (in terms of win-rate and godlike plays), and

2. there existed at least one plausible method by which he could've gained information about his opponents holdings.

Both of these criteria seem to be met, but it'd be interesting to see how his all-in e.v.-adjusted winnings differ from the actual amount. If a player was simply on a (impossibly) hot streak, shouldn't we expect his adjusted winnings to be much lower than the actual amount? If this isn't the case with Mike the case against him would be even stronger, right?
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Old 10-12-2019, 09:44 AM   #7808
washoe
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoJoey View Post
Putting it all together now

This is why he deleted the Linkedin pages and says he isn't tech savvy

He knew that he can be traced back to production and working directly w/ Stones/TD and also has deep knowledge about phone technology. That is why he deleted those so fast BUT didn't care about deleting tweets until recently.
He was involved in production at stones? Did anyone compare the time he was on his phone pre 8/11 And post 8/11 ?
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:05 AM   #7809
Wild Card
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Well, JFK definately had Postle's phone number.

JFK texts Mike Postle, from the comment booth:
https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=3693

JFK gets bored waiting for Mike P. to text back and calls Mike's phone:
https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=4161

Mike Postle picking up the call:
https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=6034

Seems quite funny to me, the way he picks up the phone so suspiciously, instead of just putting the phone to his ear.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:09 AM   #7810
Dick Tracy
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redgrape View Post
Interesting point. However, it's very clear that the phone under his crotch is an actual smart phone. He texts and uses Instagram on stream that you can clearly see, and then takes that phone and puts it under his crotch.
The decoys I mentioned are fully-functioning phones. Sometimes they come in knockoff Samsung shells, but they could be refitted into a legitimate Samsung shell.

I think he was using something like this only during the cellphone on rail / mysterious key fob phase. (The scam evolved at least 3 times.)
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:27 AM   #7811
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonovan View Post
It's inconceivable to me that he was looking at his phone BELOW the table in EVERY SINGLE hand he won but was never told to stop.
That may be partly why they were doing this at low stakes. In a 10/25NL game with mostly decent regs, it would have been harder to get away with that sort of thing.

It seems kind of weird, that sort of thing combined with his win rate and weird hands wasn't noticed earlier. There were complaints to the poker room manager several months ago that were dismissed.

Last edited by deuceblocker; 10-12-2019 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 10:37 AM   #7812
momentaryblip
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Tracy View Post
The decoys I mentioned are fully-functioning phones. Sometimes they come in knockoff Samsung shells, but they could be refitted into a legitimate Samsung shell.

I think he was using something like this only during the cellphone on rail / mysterious key fob phase. (The scam evolved at least 3 times.)
Ah, decoy phone on the rail for deflection. I posted about 40 pages ago wondering why he never did this, but maybe he did??

Last edited by momentaryblip; 10-12-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:17 AM   #7813
JustSome1
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7qdxt2cTeM

41:44 No god mode in here it seems, this is the first time i saw him betting when being 0%

42:25 Or did he only check the phone here?

1:34:00 Seems no god mode on here

1:50:00 Is this the god of poker? Is this how you do it?
Did we ever see something like this in god mode? I can't remember even once

The hand right after shows it again, he we always check raises him here somewhere in god mode.

This session from 09.02.2019 is a normal pokerplayer session overall. He also get rivered so often himself here.

3:29:00 Proof of no god mode here, he would shove him off the chop as we know

It's pretty fun to watch him play Poker on a normal Level.

3:37:25 This hand is pretty LOL too, Mike getting owned, missed his draws and didn't put the god like bluff as usual on the river. This would be perfect spot to do it (if you know the cards).

Btw. i couldn't find him looking down to his crotch here even once through out this video too.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:28 AM   #7814
wiiziwiig
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
Who is "them" ?

How did that become clear?

If so... Mike is toast. The civil suit will be the least of his worries.

Aside from a criminal charges, DOJ will turn file over to IRS.

Last edited by wiiziwiig; 10-12-2019 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:30 AM   #7815
Wild Card
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Found this clip that seems really relevant to the whole topic of the thread. Worth a look.

https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=12547

3:29:07 JFK reads out youtube comment question: "How can people be assured that live stream games arn't rigged?"

JFK (explaining how he thinks it's not rigged): "It's on a 30 min delay, we have 1 deck on table, it's not going into a machine. There's literally 2 people that are seeing the cards live and they are in a secured area and the door is locked."
JFK: "... if there's something we're missing, we need to be told. So you need to jump in and you need to tell us what we're missing."

They joke about hacking into it and not being able to do that with an iphone.
And how they think good people lose and bad people win. lol
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:32 AM   #7816
BillStankman
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

This scandal, ironically might be the best thing to happen to poker since the boom. Why? Because it is bringing it back into the spotlight. Look at this thread. I'm an old former pro donk who signed up for an account again on 2+2 just to **** post like this. I haven't been in a casino in over a year, and thinking about making a trip tonight...look at the new accounts that are posting and all the lurkers. It is bringing people back. It might not be for the right reasons, but poker is dead anyways...so why the f not. At the very least, it is making people follow it again. It also will make the game evolve in a lot of ways....

Postle is the Messiah that brought poker back from the dead.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:33 AM   #7817
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonovan View Post
The thing that tilts me is how nobody, especially the dealer, told him to stop being on his phone DURING a hand, which he did multiple times every single session.
Stones has been very lax to enforce rules, their whole operation has been unprofessional from the beginning. Furthermore, they have been incompetent and negligent.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:38 AM   #7818
BillStankman
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerr View Post
Stones has been very lax to enforce rules, their whole operation has been unprofessional from the beginning. Furthermore, they have been incompetent and negligent.
The Twitter jail background they put up sums this all up.
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:40 AM   #7819
wiiziwiig
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
Found this clip that seems really relevant to the whole topic of the thread. Worth a look.

https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=12547

3:29:07 JFK reads out youtube comment question: "How can people be assured that live stream games arn't rigged?"

JFK (explaining how he thinks it's not rigged): "It's on a 30 min delay, we have 1 deck on table, it's not going into a machine. There's literally 2 people that are seeing the cards live and they are in a secured area and the door is locked."
JFK: "... if there's something we're missing, we need to be told. So you need to jump in and you need to tell us what we're missing."

They joke about hacking into it and not being able to do that with an iphone.
And how they think good people lose and bad people win. lol
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It's not going into a machine? Wtf is JFK implying, that the machines in casinos are rigged? This guy is really dumb, I'm sure they aren't rigged, and as a casino employee, why would he even say something like that?
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:46 AM   #7820
Tsajaja
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I have not seen this here yet. There is little moment, when graphics changes AhAcTh9c to Ah9cTh9c.

I have not noticed this in other episodes and have no idea how relevant this is.
Maybe some who knows the technology can get something out of this.

8.10.2018, 2:16:38.

https://youtu.be/hcuBlBV0kRU?t=8198

[IMG][/IMG]

edit. Same hand:
AdTc8d2h --> AdTcAd2h, QdJd9h6h --> JdJd9h6h

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by Tsajaja; 10-12-2019 at 12:04 PM. Reason: add pics etc
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Old 10-12-2019, 11:55 AM   #7821
Grind On My Mind
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
Found this clip that seems really relevant to the whole topic of the thread. Worth a look.

https://youtu.be/1vlmz8T86DQ?t=12547

3:29:07 JFK reads out youtube comment question: "How can people be assured that live stream games arn't rigged?"

JFK (explaining how he thinks it's not rigged): "It's on a 30 min delay, we have 1 deck on table, it's not going into a machine. There's literally 2 people that are seeing the cards live and they are in a secured area and the door is locked."
JFK: "... if there's something we're missing, we need to be told. So you need to jump in and you need to tell us what we're missing."

They joke about hacking into it and not being able to do that with an iphone.
And how they think good people lose and bad people win. lol
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This is very very interesting. Justin gets very very defensive and he lies because the door isnt locked. This video is from August 2018, which is just a couple sessions in the god mode status. Great find someone message Joey! That comment was such forshadowing!

The youtuber who made the comment only follows live at the bike and stones which is odd. His account changed from ss_s to “yo”. It seems like almost a fake account made to ask the question. Im confused but this is very interesting. Can someone else chime in on this?

Last edited by Grind On My Mind; 10-12-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:16 PM   #7822
Minimal23
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

It just occurred to me that we're going to see a proliferation of people defending Postle publicly over the next few months. It will be a tactic by the defense. They will probably pay for people to spam and spread misinformation - a la the Russian government.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:18 PM   #7823
deuceblocker
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Card View Post
3:29:07 JFK reads out youtube comment question: "How can people be assured that live stream games arn't rigged?"
It is interesting that someone asked that question. Did he suspect it was rigged?
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:22 PM   #7824
Grind On My Mind
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker View Post
It is interesting that someone asked that question. Did he suspect it was rigged?
Not sure but what i find fascinating is Justins response to the question. Just remember this is only like the 3rd or 4th time Postle has been in god mode, so if Justin was in on it he would be wary of someone raising suspicion, even in the youtube chat. Really ironic 15 months later we are here LOL

Also why would justin say “iphones cant hack it”. Implying you need a smasung or different phone. Strange.

He asked the question and added a laughing emoji. Odd.

If i had to guess i would say The 3rd guy who is in on the cheat made a fake youtube just to make this comment for shits and giggles at the time. Its just such an out of place comment for a stream that only draws like 55 viewers on average.

Last edited by Grind On My Mind; 10-12-2019 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:27 PM   #7825
pocket_zeros
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 001001 View Post
I'm running blue screen + object detection for phones along with face recognition at the moment, it's just slow but it'll eventually post results (it's running slower than the frame rate of the videos but i'm going to parallelize it further)

Some of these tasks would be better to split up and assign out on Mechanical Turk and produce a comprehensive dataset of who played, when, hand history, seat positions, etc. - you can layer object detection on top of that but such a data set should prove very conclusive

There are also subtle little things that are hard to find - for ex. I spotted a video where it appears he is about to enable god mode, checks his phone and it appears it doesn't work, he then opens a text messaging session and subtly looks towards the TD booth after texting - he gets a response and then leaves his phone unlocked between his legs and is in god mode from then on

edit: here is part of that sequence:

https://streamable.com/uv4qv

note it freezes at the beginning because my ffmpeg slice missed a key frame

here is what I see there:

0:13 - sees a message notification and presses on it
0:16 - pulls back from table so nobody can see screen and reads message
0:23 - glances up towards TD booth
0:25 - presses 11-13 characters and space at least once and hits reply (not sure if we can figure out what he types here but the view is okish)
0:27 - doesn't lock his phone (screen still awake) and places it between his legs and pulls his chair back in

here's the glance



video slowed down 5x for those who don't want to download to slowdown or freeze etc.

https://streamable.com/3w3ux
Great work. Here's a video from a crop of your 5x slowdown video of him tapping out the message, with a transparent iPhone keyboard overlay. I was pressed for time so didn't get the scaling exact or use tracking to keep the keyboard in the same position as he moves the phone but I did match up the spacebar button and the iMessage send arrow based on his finger position. Hopefully someone with time or better spatial ability can match up his finger presses and come up with good guesses for what he typed:

Video: https://streamable.com/dgnky
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