Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views and gossip.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-09-2019, 04:25 PM   #6851
wiiziwiig
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,407
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdude View Post
There's no basis for (2). Speculative damages are prohibited, even in fraud cases. You get your out of pocket losses, plus punitive damages if you fall within the narrow bounds of that statute.

(3) has to actually been proven. Contrary to popular belief, emotional distress is not a free for all where the jury gives you anything you want. You want your psychiatrists' bills? Well, you will have to waive the therapist-patient privilege and put them into evidence. You want emotional distress? Prepare to be cross-examined as to exactly how you suffered.

Again, not saying there's zero possibility of an emotional distress award here (it's possible), but it isn't something you can really count on (and again, the damages are fairly low here- you might get $25,000 for your emotional distress or something).
Makes sense, really appreciate the info
wiiziwiig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:26 PM   #6852
parisron
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
parisron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 14,933
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
Boski arguing ACR is ok because he's met them and they're nice guys. Everyone said Mike Postle was a nice guy too, yet Boski did a video about Mike's cheating but shills for ACR. Amazing how a sponsorship can shape an opinion.
He is listed in the lawsuit vs Stones and Postle, but still wears the Stones patch?
parisron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:27 PM   #6853
golfbum983
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,932
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisron View Post
He is listed in the lawsuit vs Stones and Postle, but still wears the Stones patch?
Just another sellout
golfbum983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:34 PM   #6854
SrslySirius
Animated Character
 
SrslySirius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,318
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redgrape View Post
Is this python script on github?
I've only recently started familiarzing myself with git, but maybe I'll make a repo for it. The script is certainly nothing impressive!
SrslySirius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:39 PM   #6855
Nit Bag
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 160
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
If all you need is IP address to see hole cards on your phone then what are the chances that other live streams using this software are fair? After all if someone is smart about it then it would be almost impossible to detect simply by observing play.
Nit Bag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:41 PM   #6856
lawdude
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,305
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by huadpe View Post
Question for Lawdude:

Could the damages exceed Postle's winnings by a good amount? I could see a court finding every single hand he won on stream to be fraudulent and require him to repay the winnings. That is, you would go through the streams and every pot that was scooped to him is damages to all the other players in the amount they put in the pot.

Is that implausible?

Would there need to be an offset for hands he lost/folded?
The problem is that the plaintiffs are not out of pocket for amounts that Postle would have won anyway. For instance, sometimes he was dealt the best hand, would have obviously played it, and would have obviously won. Or maybe Postle was in a hand where he had an obvious reasonable bluff spot and would have bluffed anyway.

So not every hand is fraudulent. And even on hands that are fraudulent, the players wouldn't necessarily have received all the money Postle put into those pots. For instance, there are hands where Postle had the best hand but wouldn't have checked the river to induce a bluff. So in that situation, perhaps only the river bet is money the person would have lost.

It's a gigantic can of worms. And it would require expert testimony, and in some sense the amount people really would have won/lost if Postle played honestly is unknowable.

The $250,000 is basically the only plausible approach to damages here. Anything else gets you down a very expensive rabbit hole in terms of legal fees and expert costs.
lawdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:41 PM   #6857
Chaos_ult
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Chaos_ult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Doing whatever the hell I want
Posts: 9,018
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nit Bag View Post
If all you need is IP address to see hole cards on your phone then what are the chances that other live streams using this software are fair? After all if someone is smart about it then it would be almost impossible to detect simply by observing play.
Someone would have to give you access to the server on which the software is running.


You couldn't just happen to know the IP address and expect to get connected.
Chaos_ult is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:45 PM   #6858
PassiveIsBetter
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 318
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

At least in stream I watched Postle laid down his best hand many times.
PassiveIsBetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:47 PM   #6859
MrGooderson
stranger
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 6
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nit Bag View Post
If all you need is IP address to see hole cards on your phone then what are the chances that other live streams using this software are fair? After all if someone is smart about it then it would be almost impossible to detect simply by observing play.

You need a casino employee to set it up so you can access it. The hard part is not the technical side its having a casino employee entrusted to the control room who is (1) willing to do this; (2) able to do it without anyone else knowing.

Presumably, most live streams simply have greater security measures which would not allow one employee to do this without it being caught [security camera, log data on the computer, a second security officer who signs off on anything done by the first guy]. Or at least, I am sure they will have those policies after this.
MrGooderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:48 PM   #6860
wiiziwiig
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,407
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nit Bag View Post
If all you need is IP address to see hole cards on your phone then what are the chances that other live streams using this software are fair? After all if someone is smart about it then it would be almost impossible to detect simply by observing play.
Berkey wanted to protect his IP to not get trolled / ddos'ed. You don't want your IP out on the internet just like you wouldn't want your home address or phone number to be public.

Here's something I found that summarizes what you can do with an IP address.

Quote:
Ways hacking can be done through an IP (Not many)

DDoS attacks: Flooding the IP address with massive amounts of traffic until it can no longer accept new genuine requests

GEOIP: Useless, but gives a SUPER rough estimate to where the IP is assigned to. Normally shows the ISP's head office.I have seen my IP address list as being from a city 3 hours away

Social Engineering: You need a ton more than just an IP for this one, but if you have a phone number or something, you can use the IP to find the ISP then use social engineering to have the ISP give you more information about the target

Insecured RDP: Sometimes, like with NASA years ago, people will open RPDs and leave them password insecured. That means you can connect to a remote desktop just by knowing the IP HOWEVER this is super rare.

Past those, there are not many ways you can hack someone through an IP. IPs are basically just your address on the internet, just symbolizes who you are. When you make a request to a website, the server uses your IP to send the proper data your way
wiiziwiig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:49 PM   #6861
MrFabulous
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 414
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlucky4some View Post
Have the decks improved so much that they are indistinguishable from normal cards? Last time I played in a streamed game they were slightly thicker and lumpy, you could tell where the chip and antenna were. They were also "poker" sized instead of the "bridge" size people usually play with.
No, still lumpy.
MrFabulous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:49 PM   #6862
R*R
I wish I was Einstein
 
R*R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Crossfire Hurricane
Posts: 12,524
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whosnext View Post
godeep promised to post better so received a last-minute reprieve from the governor

now we are waiting for his improved posting to begin

Yeah. He is now banned for good.
R*R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:49 PM   #6863
SemiFreddo
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 172
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nit Bag View Post
If all you need is IP address to see hole cards on your phone then what are the chances that other live streams using this software are fair? After all if someone is smart about it then it would be almost impossible to detect simply by observing play.
You need to enable the stream in that way tho, which nobody does, because of how twitch works
SemiFreddo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:50 PM   #6864
Xenoblade
veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 3,214
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
At least in stream I watched Postle laid down his best hand many times.
oh really, you must be special because nobody else has seen that, can you kindly point us to those instances
Xenoblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:55 PM   #6865
SimpleRick
banned
 
SimpleRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,483
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
Not easy, but I am pretty sure doable, if you are a very good high stakes player.

Is here any live pro's who think that 500$ hourly is not possible 1000bb deep live 1/3 PLO? I am pretty sure it is and then some.

I am arguing against that lol very high winrates are not possible in soft games.
You don't know what the hell you are talking about. 300bb/hr winrate is not sustainable. And answer my question. What stakes do you play now and what stakes have you played in the past?
SimpleRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:57 PM   #6866
seat
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 213
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I would like to donate my lucky penny to verstandig law so they can win this case.
seat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 04:59 PM   #6867
pocket_zeros
veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,533
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Berkey wanted to protect his IP to not get trolled / ddos'ed. You don't want your IP out on the internet just like you wouldn't want your home address or phone number to be public.
The IP address the gfx software generated for Berkey's stream would be a local IP address, presuming he has a router on his network which 99% of people do, so him sharing that IP address wouldn't matter. Routers work by shuffling IP packets between your single public IP address (the one dynamically assigned to you by your internet provider) and all your computing devices/phones behind the router, which each get a unique local IP address that only the router knows. There are blocks of IP addresses reserved for local-only use - since they're private to each network they are reused millions of times over.
pocket_zeros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:01 PM   #6868
Gzesh
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UTG
Posts: 5,704
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by huadpe View Post
Question for Lawdude:

Could the damages exceed Postle's winnings by a good amount? I could see a court finding every single hand he won on stream to be fraudulent and require him to repay the winnings. That is, you would go through the streams and every pot that was scooped to him is damages to all the other players in the amount they put in the pot.

Is that implausible?

Would there need to be an offset for hands he lost/folded?
Yo, the casino is also a Defendant,

Might there be punitive damages
(think deep pockets) for allowing a cheating fraud against players to run for so long under their noses and then doing a half-assed investigation with their own inhouse counsel ??
Gzesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:12 PM   #6869
PassiveIsBetter
banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 318
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
oh really, you must be special because nobody else has seen that, can you kindly point us to those instances
Like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4TguWyUH0
(35 min)


Postle CO Td8d raise
SB 3-bet KK, Postle call.

Flop Kd8c4s

SB bets 450$ (pot size 1.3k$), Postle call.

Turn 3c

SB bets, Postle folds.

Very standard. If Postle knew holecards then fold pre and fold flop.
PassiveIsBetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:17 PM   #6870
unlucky4some
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 65
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Berkey wanted to protect his IP to not get trolled / ddos'ed. You don't want your IP out on the internet just like you wouldn't want your home address or phone number to be public.

Here's something I found that summarizes what you can do with an IP address.
I really liked Berkey's video and it was invaluable, but found his "technical description" of the board cringy (just a personal thing as an engineer) and his hiding of that IP address really weird. How likely is that it was a routeable (public) IP address?
unlucky4some is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:17 PM   #6871
rtd353
Pooh-Bah
 
rtd353's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,897
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

sorry if this has been posted already, Barstool Nate wrote another blog and included updates of Mike Postle Dm'ing him and proclaiming that the hands are all being taken out of context.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/dmv/t...he-is-innocent
rtd353 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:18 PM   #6872
wiiziwiig
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,407
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
The IP address the gfx software generated for Berkey's stream would be a local IP address, presuming he has a router on his network which 99% of people do, so him sharing that IP address wouldn't matter. Routers work by shuffling IP packets between your single public IP address (the one dynamically assigned to you by your internet provider) and all your computing devices/phones behind the router, which each get a unique local IP address that only the router knows. There are blocks of IP addresses reserved for local-only use - since they're private to each network they are reused millions of times over.
Thanks for the clarification. Yea so having the IP address alone wouldn't do anything. You would also need someone in the booth to use the streaming feature, thats never really used as most ppl use obs, and know the IP address and port number that creates the URL for you to tap into an undelayed broadcast of the livestream as shown in Berkeys video.
wiiziwiig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:18 PM   #6873
Eponymous
Photoshop Comic Genius
 
Eponymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: How many letters do we have for thi
Posts: 4,572
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
At least in stream I watched Postle laid down his best hand many times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
oh really, you must be special because nobody else has seen that, can you kindly point us to those instances
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
Like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w4TguWyUH0
(35 min)


Postle CO Td8d raise
SB 3-bet KK, Postle call.

Flop Kd8c4s

SB bets 450$ (pot size 1.3k$), Postle call.

Turn 3c

SB bets, Postle folds.

Very standard. If Postle knew holecards then fold pre and fold flop.
What are you talking about? That is not an example of Postle laying down the best hand. He calls preflop and flop while he still has a chance at cracking kings, and he folds the turn as soon as he's drawing dead even though he has second pair. This is one of the worst examples you could have chosen in your defense.
Eponymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:22 PM   #6874
Dream Crusher
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dream Crusher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dallas
Posts: 15,670
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

For Postle to fold that flop he might as well post a sign on his head that says "I am cheating"
Dream Crusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2019, 05:23 PM   #6875
wiiziwiig
old hand
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,407
Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlucky4some View Post
I really liked Berkey's video and it was invaluable, but found his "technical description" of the board cringy (just a personal thing as an engineer) and his hiding of that IP address really weird. How likely is that it was a routeable (public) IP address?
Seems like pocket_zeros is much more knowledgable than I am on this topic. But yea, hes making some overall good content.
wiiziwiig is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive