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Old 10-09-2019, 02:20 PM   #6776
MasterLJ
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
Great find. I scanned through the stream and here's the best capture I think we'll get - at 27:34 he raises his phone up to his glasses. Here's the sequence slowed down to 25%


The best part of this clip, is that you get the white from the table lots in the top lens, at the same time you get blue in the bottom lens, ruling out distorted colors.

Can we verify the PokerGFX is still blue *when the stream is running and live*? Blue is usually the absence of a video feed. Very specifically, is the footage of the live streaming table running in place of the blue background when live, or is it always blue?

To investigate this correctly, you have to look to debunk what appears to be incredibly damning.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:23 PM   #6777
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MasterLJ View Post
The best part of this clip, is that you get the white from the table lots in the top lens, at the same time you get blue in the bottom lens, ruling out distorted colors.

Can we verify the PokerGFX is still blue *when the stream is running and live*? Blue is usually the absence of a video feed. Very specifically, is the footage of the live streaming table running in place of the blue background when live, or is it always blue?

To investigate this correctly, you have to look to debunk what appears to be incredibly damning.
It's always blue unless you're actually using the Poker GFX streaming feature to stitch the live stream together. According to Mat Berkey no one uses GFX for the actual stream production because it's not professional quality. They use something called OBS instead.

So it sounds like GFX is just piping data about the cards and action to OBS, and OBS is putting the actual stream together with live action and overlay.

In that case the stream produced by GFX would have no live cameras mixed in with it. Which means it would look like the screenshot in his video (mostly electric blue color filling in where the live action would be). You can still set that streaming function to act as a local stream server - which is even better because it's not the real stream, and no one would even know it's serving - unless they click on the normally unused streaming tab in GFX and know what they're looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qar90n6teQ&t=308s


Last edited by suzzer99; 10-09-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:24 PM   #6778
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by matt hirschhorn View Post
Oh ffs I am not going to argue with you, the vast majority of the time having a VPIP of 63% at 1/3 2/5 is not optimal. If you want to have some theoretically situation where your 1/2 table is filled with a bunch of super nitty players that fold 68% on the flop because they missed their pair on the flop ok sure. THIS LITERALLY NEVER HAPPENS AT THESE STAKES.

Mike also was playing with the average 1/3 2/5 player pool you expect to see at these stakes anyways.
Since when optimal play against super easy to read loose passive players have not been loose PF and then hit and print, or have live reads and bluff.

Player pool is worse than zoom 0.02$ online.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:25 PM   #6779
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
It's always blue unless you're actually using the Poker GFX streaming feature to put the live stream together. According to Mat Berkey no one uses GFX for the actual stream production because it's not professional quality. They use something called OBS instead.

So it sounds like GFX is just piping data about the cards and action to OBS, and OBS is putting the actual stream together.

In that case the streaming tab in GFX would have no live cameras in it. Which means it would look like the screenshot in his video (mostly electric blue color). And you can still set that streaming function to act as a local stream server.
Perfect. Thanks
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:34 PM   #6780
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Does anyone who plays at Stones know whether or not JFK is still working? I'd have to assume he would at least be temporarily suspended while this is being investigated, but given how ineffective Stones has been at handling this, I'd be interested in someone being able to confirm or rebut this.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:36 PM   #6781
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by godeep View Post
Found it. Joey and everyone watch this i think.it helps seeing through the big picture.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cr6-xCxOce8
I stopped watching when he criticized Veronica. Credibility dropped too low for my investment.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:37 PM   #6782
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Just ignore matt hirschhorn. Hes just starting arguments left and right. He literally misunderstood my entire argument with godeep, argued the exact point I was trying to make to me, and then told me to think about what I post before post it. He definitely falls into the too dumb to talk to or trolling category of 2p2ers.

Last edited by wiiziwiig; 10-09-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:37 PM   #6783
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by MrGooderson View Post
Does anyone who plays at Stones know whether or not JFK is still working? I'd have to assume he would at least be temporarily suspended while this is being investigated, but given how ineffective Stones has been at handling this, I'd be interested in someone being able to confirm or rebut this.
He is not there, and hasn't been for 4-5 days. I also haven't seen Taylor, but can't confirm he hasn't been working.

They've promoted a few dealers into floor manager training too (good people imo).

There are "serious business" people there, who stick out, and are there until like 6ish.

Other than that, seems business as usual. It's been slow there even before this fiasco and it's about the same.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:38 PM   #6784
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by 001001 View Post
I wrote a quick OpenCV script to process video frames and detect the same blue straight from the HSV values of the PokerGFX app

It detects these frames ....

I'm going to run it across the entire archive of youtube streams once I know it isn't returning any false positives (it might take a while but the result shoud spit out every stream and every timestamp where this blue color comes up)
Great, looking forward to your results. I did the isolation visually with a color grade, where I isolated the blue hue from his phone by desaturating and lowering the luminance of everything else. That made it easier to quickly scrub the video looking for the blue. Here's a sample of what the grade looks like:

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Old 10-09-2019, 02:41 PM   #6785
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
Since when optimal play against super easy to read loose passive players have not been loose PF and then hit and print, or have live reads and bluff.

Player pool is worse than zoom 0.02$ online.
Buddy it's not just his massive win rate at low stakes and his absurdly high vpip that's making it obvious he is a cheater. It's also the hand histories. The inconsistent way he plays hands. Jamming bottom pair as a bluff when his opponents are weak and folding top pair when he is beat. Never being wrong in these spots. The best players make mistakes for their whole stack in 300+ hours of poker. No player is so good to never make a significant mistake. Couple that with the fact that he looks at the phone hidden in between his thighs while pretending to check his hole cards and you have an open and shut case of cheating. Only people who haven't watched hours of any footage think that he isn't cheating. Watch more video of his play and you will see he is clearly cheating.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:44 PM   #6786
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

I mean the latest doug polk vid is prob the most damning hand ever, floating with JTo on 932cc vs 1/3 which is pretty standard then FOLDING TO HALF POT BET ON TURN J?

LOOOOOOOOOL
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:45 PM   #6787
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

What do you guys think of this video?

I know it starts kind of slow and u have to be open minded. But then it all makes sense.

Although I still don't understand how they could be so stupid and think they would get away with it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cr6-xCxOce8
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:45 PM   #6788
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by wiiziwiig View Post
Just ignore matt hirschhorn. Hes just starting arguments left and right. He literally misunderstood my entire argument with godeep, argued the exact point I was trying to make to me, and then told me to think about what I post before post it. He definitely falls into the too dumb to talk to or trolling category of 2p2ers.
Oh ffs if you had a brain you would've realized I was replying to the other individual, I did not edit it because I thought you would've just assumed what I meant.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:47 PM   #6789
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Xenoblade View Post
I mean the latest doug polk vid is prob the most damning hand ever, floating with JTo on 932cc vs 1/3 which is pretty standard then FOLDING TO HALF POT BET ON TURN J?

LOOOOOOOOOL

Have to agree with all the new Doug videos are brilliant.
They convinced me the most I guess lately. And Joey of course..
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:50 PM   #6790
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
Buddy it's not just his massive win rate at low stakes and his absurdly high vpip that's making it obvious he is a cheater. It's also the hand histories. The inconsistent way he plays hands. Jamming bottom pair as a bluff when his opponents are weak and folding top pair when he is beat. Never being wrong in these spots. The best players make mistakes for their whole stack in 300+ hours of poker. No player is so good to never make a significant mistake. Couple that with the fact that he looks at the phone hidden in between his thighs while pretending to check his hole cards and you have an open and shut case of cheating. Only people who haven't watched hours of any footage think that he isn't cheating. Watch more video of his play and you will see he is clearly cheating.
Watched he played 10/25/50 about an hour. He had hot deck, played good, and made opponents make big mistakes. Printed like 10k$ there without any real big showdowns.

Obviously there is some very good run to make like 250k$ in 300 hours live play. But then stacks in game I watched were 10k$ to 20k$, so in those games it's like 15ish buy-ins. Then of course if he only played that one time higher it's significantly more.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:51 PM   #6791
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SemiFreddo View Post
This is a good example for when Mike changes his hat for the commentary booth, commenting on his own play.



You can see that he wears different hats here, either swapped for a similar but different one or he took the stuffing out for the commentary




Look at the quality difference in Stones backdrop. Are you sure its not just the lighting or camera quality?

Here I took your photo and put a small Gaussian blur on it...
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:51 PM   #6792
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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The Campbell case is enforced a lot more strictly than that. In most cases, you can't get more than 1x actual damages. 2x is very, very rare, and reserved only for the most despicable conduct. 10x compensatories verdicts and judgments are routinely reversed.

Actual damages here are unlikely to be more than $250,000. That's what he took out of the game. There are some theories that could get plaintiffs a little more than that, but it would require a hand-by-hand expert analysis of what would have been won or lost had Postle played the hand normally, and that might get excluded as speculative.

The damages are very low here. There's just not much likelihood of getting around that.
This thread got me to finally register for an account and post...

Just a thought -- it would make sense for the plaintiffs to try to get damages from Stones as they are the deep pocket and a fraud theory would be the maximal outcome. I wonder if they could argue a theory that Stones encouraged and fostered the environment where Postle was propped up as the local hero who liked to gamble, and that induced other players to come play at Stones leading them to lose their money. Stone made a material misrepresentation that Postle was an action player who played fairly and created large, profitable games. The players relied upon this material misrepresentation to believe they were playing in a fair game and lost their money. If such a theory could be viable, they could claim actual damages for all money lost while they were there, not just the money they lost to Postle. There's a lot of evidence that the live streams promoted Postle as poker Jesus and Postle's style of play as being a unique characteristic of poker at Stones (I've seen numerous clips where the commentators make statements of this nature). Poker players like to play in action games as the potential financial benefit is usually greater in action games.

The hard part is to prove proximate injury as a result of the misrepresentation apart from what was lost to Postle. But then if you can have testimony about tilt and how large losing sessions can cause players to take on more risk and can increase losses.

It's a bit sketchy, but it could increase the amount of actual damages that can be accessed and target Stones. They really need to survive motion practice to ratchet up the settlement pressure.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:52 PM   #6793
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by SimpleRick View Post
Buddy it's not just his massive win rate at low stakes and his absurdly high vpip that's making it obvious he is a cheater. It's also the hand histories. The inconsistent way he plays hands. Jamming bottom pair as a bluff when his opponents are weak and folding top pair when he is beat. Never being wrong in these spots. The best players make mistakes for their whole stack in 300+ hours of poker. No player is so good to never make a significant mistake. Couple that with the fact that he looks at the phone hidden in between his thighs while pretending to check his hole cards and you have an open and shut case of cheating. Only people who haven't watched hours of any footage think that he isn't cheating. Watch more video of his play and you will see he is clearly cheating.
Im not sure this guy is arguing that mike postle is not guilty, I think he is disputing my comment that having a VPIP of 63% at full table 1/3 2/5 is almost never optimal.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:55 PM   #6794
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by matt hirschhorn View Post
Oh ffs if you had a brain you would've realized I was replying to the other individual, I did not edit it because I thought you would've just assumed what I meant.
Yea I did assume you were talking to the other individual at first. I was going to reply that I completely agreed with you, until you finished it off with "You really need to think this **** through before you post this type of stuff." Obviously if you write something like that at the end, you should have taken the time to edit it or at least correct me when I bring it up.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:59 PM   #6795
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by pocket_zeros View Post
Great, looking forward to your results. I did the isolation visually with a color grade, where I isolated the blue hue from his phone by desaturating and lowering the luminance of everything else. That made it easier to quickly scrub the video looking for the blue. Here's a sample of what the grade looks like
Pretty similar results - preview here:

https://streamable.com/lir9h

red boxes is certain, yellow is manual review and blue is low probability

it's picking up artifacts/leaks from the OBS chroma keying process that are hard to make out with the naked eye which gives me confidence that this might work



artifacts around the motion of the cards being spotted at low tolerance:



it's logging timestamps and i'm running it now across the first video - eventually have 500GB+ of the mirror archive to run it again which will require GPU
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:02 PM   #6796
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by PassiveIsBetter View Post
Obviously there is some very good run to make like 250k$ in 300 hours live play.
I'm not sure that is so obvious. I would think one would be able to crush for insane #s regardless of run good if the players has the ability to see opponents' holdings.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:02 PM   #6797
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Phatty View Post
I stopped watching when he criticized Veronica. Credibility dropped too low for my investment.
I'm trying to find out why he did it and so far this guy has given me the best answer that's all.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:02 PM   #6798
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

Can we all stop responding to “godeep” its just a random troll or Mike. I thought he was banned from the forum...
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:04 PM   #6799
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by godeep View Post
What do you guys think of this video?

I know it starts kind of slow and u have to be open minded. But then it all makes sense.

Although I still don't understand how they could be so stupid and think they would get away with it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cr6-xCxOce8
Please stop posting this video, its 21.23min I can never get back! I thought you were banned??
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:04 PM   #6800
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Re: Mike Postle cheating allegations (FAQ in first post)

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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher View Post
I'm not sure that is so obvious. I would think one would be able to crush for insane #s regardless of run good if the players has the ability to see opponents' holdings.
From Doug Polk's video. 1$/3$ 1000bb deep PLO. Good high stakes player have hourly pretty close to 1k$ easily in those games. And then those are smallest stakes he played?
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